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ยป Forums ยป Freelancers ยป Re: Can a client use revision requests to del...
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niall-n
Community Member

Can a client use revision requests to delay payment without actually needing anything revised?

In this question, there is my client on Upwork, which I'll refer to as client, and there is the client's client, which I'll refer to as the end-client.

 

2 days after the fixed-price contract was delivered, my client sent a message saying that from their side it was fine but also said that they were just waiting for feedback from their client to approve the submission. Since clients have 2 weeks to approve, I took this as a nice gesture to try and approve payment promptly rather than wait out the 2 weeks.

 

The night before the 2 week approval period ends (ie. today), the client sent a message apologising that they hadn't received feedback from the end-client yet and used the request revision to avoid the automatic approval. So my question is, in this case, where there is a revision request being made with no direction of what needs to be revised and the only feedback being that the submission was fine, does this not violate the spirit if not the actual terms of service?

 

I understand their tricky situation but I don't see why they can unilaterally use the revision request just because the end client wasn't able to approve the work within 2 weeks. Otherwise, why even have a 2 week approval period in the first place. Just make the rule that clients can approve work whenever they have the time to.

14 REPLIES 14
dataextract
Community Member

Is this is the  53 audio files work? Two more people posted very similar incidents today in the forum. 

Yes it is. I guess the other forum posts didn't show up in my search because I was specifically searching around the revisions keywords but in my case there was no notice of any rejection of work. Explicitly stated that the revision is being used because their client hasn't had time to approve it.

e03136ba
Community Member

I'm so sorry that they got you too! The line they've given you is the same as some others have been told. Then they use empty revision requests to delay paying, until eventually they claim their client rejected them and they won't pay - without any proof that the files are not actually being used! I was halfway through the project when I got suspicious and started doing research into them. There are at least 4 complaints on here about them (soon to be 5 as I'm about to start a thread too), and multiple reports and complaints on other sites as well.  Please add your experience to the other threads, in the hope that if we keep talking about it, UpWork will take action to remove them from this site to protect others from going through the same experience. It is absolutely terrible that they're preying on hardworking freelancers to get free work! 

 

Urgent Complaint: Unfair Treatment and Paymen... - Upwork Community

Day 14 Today of None Paying Client In Fixed C... - Upwork Community

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Edited/m-p/1481772/highlight/true#M810256

niall-n
Community Member

I'm filing a dispute tomorrow. Tomorrow would be the point past the official dealine for clients to request a revision. I encourage you and others to use this formal channel because the fact of the matter is that forum posts are just a hope strategy. This is a crystal clear contravention of the terms of service. The people who were told that Meta rejected their work have a more difficult case to make but anyone who hasn't had negative feedback has a strong case. Also negative ratings on that account will ensure they don't come back.

Please keep us updated when you file the dispute!

Sure, I'll do that in replies to my post. Just sent the first update in my course of action.

e03136ba
Community Member

Unfortunately, I cannot use the dispute function because I cottoned onto this before I was finished the project, and while I was still waiting for the contract, so I did not end up submitting anything. But I did reject **Edited for Community Guidelines** offer, state in a final message to her that the truth is known and being shared, blocked her, and reported her with the details of what happened and how many others are experiencing it. Best I can do in my situation but I could not stand idly by and knowingly let her scam others without at least trying to do something. 

3f2546bb
Community Member

Hi Niall, 

 

I am one of the victims here and sadly UpWork couldn't help either after the dispute. They just ended the contract in the end. It was either ending the contract or paying 300plus to file for arbitration. I'm still very saddened that this has happened and I feel I can't trust this platform. 

dataextract
Community Member

This particular job, so far : 

Hires: 112
Interviewing:185
Invites sent:2,092
Unanswered invites:1,396


niall-n
Community Member

For those reading this and wanting to follow my course of action, I just sent a message (at 6 UTC) to the client stating the following:

"Hi **Edited for Community Guidelines**, you are now past the 14 day approval period allowed by Upwork. You can't use the revisions system to create more time for an external party to review submitted work. That should have been built into your agreement with them because these payments rules are what you accepted when you used the platform. No feedback on submitted work is valid at this point. Please release payment immediately to avoid escalation. You have until 12pm UTC.
Thanks
Niall"

niall-n
Community Member

Dispute filed to Upwork at 1pm UTC:

"

I would like to initiate a formal dispute with the client on Contract ID --------. The work was delivered as instructed on Thursday 7 December.

On Monday 11 December the client messaged me on Upwork to say that they reviewed the work and found it to be okay but are just waiting on their client to also approve it. This was the first time it was communicated that they would defer to the approval of a third party but as far as I was concerned, the internal process the client follows is not my concern and I took the message as a gesture that they were trying to pay promptly. I thanked the client for the update.

The next communication I received was on Wednesday, December 20th, when the client requested a revision and explicitly said that the reason for doing so was because they hadn't received feedback on the work from the external party. Officially, they had until the end of Thursday 21 December to request any changes.

Today, on Friday 22 December at 6am UTC, I sent a message to the client notifying them that the 2 week period in which to request revisions had now ended and using a revision request to create more time for feedback was a breach in the terms of service that they agreed to when listing the project on Upwork. I want to make it very clear, that all communication has taken place on Upwork and there has never been feedback that the work was substandard. It was always explicit that my client approved of the work but was waiting on an external party to provide feedback to them. In my message I requested the client to approve the work by 12pm UTC to avoid this escalation and that any feedback given beyond the 2 week feedback period is invalid.

I received a message from them at 11am UTC, saying that they are still waiting for validations from their external party - which is to say that they rejected my request to end the contract by approving payment. In the last 2 days it has become clear from community forum posts that I am not the only freelancer in this position and freelancers who have researched this client have noted that this seems to be a pattern of behaviour that shows they knowingly abuse and breech the terms of service in order to avoid payment. I ask you to not only resolve this dispute but to consider it part of a wider investigation into this client to ensure that this platform remains a safe and fair place to work for both clients and freelancers."

Hey Niall... I also fell for this voiceover scam and I am in my 4th day of dispute, really hoping that upwork sees the tons of evidence I provided and end up releasing the money to us. What was the outcome of your dispute?

1f49aee6
Community Member

How do I file a dispute or how do I report my client? In my case, client keeps asking for revisions when the 2-week mark is almost up but is not giving proper feedback. All she leaves is "." then proceeds to ignore my messages. I resubmit the same work then does the same thing on the next payment deadline.

Hi Pamela,

 

I'm sorry to learn about your experience with the client. Weโ€™ve escalated your community post to a support ticket. One of our agents will be in touch with you soon to assist.

~ Luiggi
Upwork
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