Cancelled contract and JSS

af792128 · ‎04-08-2020

Does cancelled contract effects your JSS? If i refund the escrow amount and get 0$ dollars.

Thanks in advance

abinadab-agbo · ‎04-08-2020

Kanan I wrote:
Does cancelled contract effects your JSS? If i refund the escrow amount and get 0$ dollars.

Thanks in advance

Yes.

It affects it big time. And when I say big time, I mean big time.

af792128 · ‎04-08-2020

what if client does not need the project anymore

pudingstudio · ‎04-08-2020

Kanan I wrote:
what if client does not need the project anymore

You can politely ask them to pay $5 for your time.
Honest, nice, client will understand that they wasted your time and that they may affect you by paying nothing.

Worth a try.

colettelewis · ‎04-08-2020

@af792128 wrote:
what if client does not need the project anymore
___________________________

Kanan can you explain a bit more. Did the client hire you, pay money into escrow and then do nothing?
If a freelancer cancels a fixed-rate contract with money still in escrow, the money gets automatically returned to the client, and your JSS will be dinged.

If you could get your client to agree to just $1.00 payment on a dormant job with money in escrow, your JSS should not suffer too much.

But without knowing what happened it is difficult to judge.

gaspardjack · ‎04-08-2020

Hi kanan,

No earning contracts with a positive feedback have no effect now on your jss after the recent change in calculation.

So if you have a positive feedback, there will be no impact on your jss.

This has been mentioned many times on the forum, but I think Upwork should make this more clear in their help article about jss!

feed_my_eyes · ‎04-08-2020

Mohammed G wrote:
Hi kanan,
No earning contracts with a positive feedback have no effect now on your jss after the recent change in calculation.
So if you have a positive feedback, there will be no impact on your jss.

This has been mentioned many times on the forum, but I think Upwork should make this more clear in their help article about jss!

I'm really unclear about how this works. How can a client give you positive feedback if you've never done any work for them?

abinadab-agbo · ‎04-08-2020

Christine A wrote:
I'm really unclear about how this works. How can a client give you positive feedback if you've never done any work for them?

Clients get to leave private feedback when closing a contract, even if there are no earnings in the contract.

But public feedback can only be left where money was earned in the contract.

Previously, positive private feedback on a no-earnings contract could have a positive effect on the JSS.

With the new JSS update such positive feedback is no longer ever taken into consideration, so the effect of a zero pay contract is now negative, everytime.

A responsible client will not leave negative feedback when the contract ending without any work done is due entirely to the client's fault; he didn't know what he wanted, for instance.

gaspardjack · ‎04-08-2020

With the new JSS update such positive feedback is no longer ever taken into consideration, so the effect of a zero pay contract is now negative, everytime.

----

Nop, the effect is not negative on jss, it's neutral=0, no impact at all!

And when I mentioned positive feedback, it's private feedback, public feedback has little to no effect on jss either way!

A responsible client will not leave negative feedback when the contract ending without any work done is due entirely to the client's fault; he didn't know what he wanted, for instance.

---

I agree if the project is no longer needed as is the case here, but a contract can be cancelled for any reason and the clients aren't always reasonable!

abinadab-agbo · ‎04-08-2020

Mohammed G wrote:
With the new JSS update such positive feedback is no longer ever taken into consideration, so the effect of a zero pay contract is now negative, everytime.
----
Nop, the effect is not negative on jss, it's neutral=0, no impact at all!
And when I mentioned positive feedback, it's private feedback, public feedback has little to no effect on jss either way!

Bro, a zero pay contract has negative impact on the JSS, everytime. It's not neutral.

Thanks.

gaspardjack · ‎04-08-2020

"Positive feedback on contracts with no earnings will not be factored into JSS once we move to the new calculation."

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Announcements/Job-size-will-now-be-factored-into-your-JSS/td-p/69791...

Mods mentionned that many times in the forum, that's why I think the question should be clarified in the help article!

smhasnat01 · ‎10-27-2021

Thanks

jkiani · ‎09-19-2021

What if the client doesn't leave private feedback on a canceled contract? No impact on JSS?

petra_r · ‎09-19-2021

Jan Haider K wrote:
What if the client doesn't leave private feedback on a canceled contract? No impact on JSS?

If the client cancelled the contract they WILL leave private feedback

If the freelancer cancels the contract, the client may or may not leave private feedback.

No or good private feedback: No effect on the JSS

Poor private feedback: Negative effect

AveryO · ‎04-08-2020

Hi Kanan, and everyone,

I would just like to clarify some things about the Job Success Score:
Contracts with no earnings AND no feedback will have a negative impact on the score. However, contracts with no earning but private feedback was left for the freelancer will minimize the negative impact on the score. When client feedback is received, even without earnings, it will be factored into the Job Success Score. You may refer to the FAQ section "How do contracts with no earnings or feedback affect my score?" in this help article for more information.

~ Avery

gaspardjack · ‎04-08-2020

Thanks Avery but it still doesn't clarify the thing for me, I remember that 2 others mods have said a contract with no earning+ positive feedback have NO EFFECT on JSS at all (after the jss calculation update)!

eapurpero · ‎05-10-2021

How is this policy fair to freelancers? Why should a freelancer be negatively impacted through no fault of their own? I recently had a client flake out on me a day before my deadline and ended the contract and asked for a refund. I literally was putting on the final edits before submitting the work to them when it happened. In other words I put time and effort on a project. So not only do I not get paid for my work I may get a poor JSS score? There were no bad exchanges, no complaints, the client just canceled. I get things come up and they need to but if the client experience was okay then why a poor JSS score? Give the client a bad rating for not paying freelancers for doing work.

prestonhunter · ‎05-10-2021

re: "How is this policy fair to freelancers?"

How is it unfair?
The policy is the same for all freelancers, which is the very definition of "fair."

Moreover... while we previously talked about all zero-pay contracts as having negative impact on JSS, now that is rarely the case. Only if a client leaves negative private feedback do we expect any possible negative impact.

european74 · ‎05-11-2021

A few times I received a low feedback with false accusation. I contacted Upwork and explained that the feedback is unfair with false accusations. Upwork answered that they can not change feedbacks. Whole conversation with client was through Upwork website. They can do nothing. Client can give you a low feedback, write what they want in feedback's comment. It works in this way.

optimizirv · ‎08-13-2021

What a joke. lol it'll minimize the negative score the person doesn't deserve in the first place?

Man, instead of all these convoluted and unknown rules that shape a completely misleading metric, can't y'all just be transparent?

"Whether it's your fault or not, you will be punished for not making Upwork money. Do everything in your power to ensure you're making us money!"

It's so much easier to understand the rules in that sense. I wish the JSS page mentioned the whole "contracts ending without our 20% lower your score" bit.

It kind of sucks I had to trawl through the forums to realize all these rules to the JSS that weren't at all inclusive on the linked pages on my end. Caveat emptor and all that.

petra_r · ‎08-13-2021

Irvin P wrote:
Man, instead of all these convoluted and unknown rules that shape a completely misleading metric, can't y'all just be transparent?

It is really very, very simple: What lowers your JSS is poor private feedback. That's it. They no longer do unless they come with poor private feedback.

The post where Avery says that contracts with nothing paid will have a negative effect is outdated. It was changed last year.

optimizirv · ‎08-13-2021

Yeah, the ultra simple private feedback system that:

The average Upwork freelancer/client does not understand.
Does not actually make sense for a sizable portion of Upwork "jobs."
Is a completely unrealistic rating scale where "would not recommend" and "poor experience" are 1-8.
Makes no attempt at gathering serious freelancer evaluation.
Is not at all explained publicly by Upwork as the be-all end-all JSS needle mover (evidenced by the 385727 people who come in here and clearly think it's their public ratings, which makes sense).
You have to muck around in these forums to actually understand.

Oh, the information I found is no longer valid? Yeah, like I said, convoluted.

There's really nothing simple about saying, "You'll only get a lower JSS with negative private feedback" when the statement itself is so misleading and paints a different picture than reality.

You'll get a lower JSS when your client cancels the gig before you started and he rates you a 5 because you didn't blow him away with your readiness to actually blow him away.

"bUt yOu sHoUlD hAvE vEtTeD hIM bEtTeR bEfoRehAnD! yOu dIdNt gIvE hIM a GrEaT eXpErIeNcE!!"

lol @ how it's designed to penalize you for doing nothing wrong so easily. But if someone rates you highly in that cancelled contract w/ zero funds, it does nothing, or penalizes you less.

Why should someone get penalized when there's so many scenarios where they're not at fault?

Never seen people ride so hard for such a purposely flawed and inherently crappy system.

Anyway, cheers. Off to deliver a horrible 8-star experience to my clients, yo.

optimizirv · ‎08-13-2021

The system is designed to make as much money for Upwork as possible. I get it.

When everything BUT a smooth transaction where money changes hands penalizes you, people will be on their A-game to do everything they can to make something work. I get it.

But don't act like the tons of things aren't functionally unfair, purposely ambiguous, and often-times misleading to many freelancers.

petra_r · ‎08-13-2021

Irvin P wrote:
When everything BUT a smooth transaction where money changes hands penalizes you

This is untrue. A smooth transaction where no money changes hands does not penalize you. At all. Again, you resurrected an old thread.

Irvin P wrote:
But don't act like the tons of things aren't functionally unfair, purposely ambiguous, and often-times misleading to many freelancers.

I don't see how something that is the same for everyone is "functionally unfair" (whatever that even means). I also agree that Upwork is far too often purposely ambiguous, and sometimes misleading.

It is entirely possible to keep a very high JSS year in, year out. I don't even think about. I know that if I choose my clients really carefully, scope the work, manage the project and the client from before the contract starts to beyond when it ends, my JSS takes care of itself.

optimizirv · ‎08-27-2021

This is untrue. A smooth transaction where no money changes hands does not penalize you. At all.

Right, and that's not at all what my statement implied.

Regardless, when you're routinely put in situations, through no fault of your own, where a client is unlikely to rate you 9+ stars, yeah, that's being penalized.

It's unreal if anything below 9 is a "bad experience." That's not reality. And clients cancelling contracts to send updated versions are unlikely to rate a 10 (or even care what they rate). That's not a fair rating for a job when the job wasn't done. That's not even debatable lol

Freelancers should not be docked points for things out of their control. You have no respone to this other than blaming freelancers for not job scouting better lol

Again, you resurrected an old thread.

Who cares? I contributed to a relevant thread discussing something I'm commenting on. There's nothing wrong with that.

I don't see how something that is the same for everyone is "functionally unfair" (whatever that even means). I also agree that Upwork is far too often purposely ambiguous, and sometimes misleading.

Because that's not the criteria that decides whether something is fair or not?

petra_r · ‎08-27-2021

Irvin P wrote:
Regardless, when you're routinely put in situations, through no fault of your own, where a client is unlikely to rate you 9+ stars, yeah, that's being penalized.

Think of it this way: What are freelancers who maintain their very high JSS (100%, 99%, 98%) year in, year out doing differently to you?

They don't end up "routinely in a situation" when client leave less than great feedback.

If you "routinely" end up in such situations, you want to start thinking about why that is and how you can avoid it.

optimizirv · ‎08-29-2021

That addresses nothing I said and largely misses the point (as you always do). It doesn't even apply to me either, but whatever. Talking to a wall.

studiohelios · ‎09-02-2021

Nobody in Upwork knows how it works, so dont try to argue with anyone who claims they have any idea.
Just try to be nice to your clients and give refunds for everything, thats how I have a 100% jss since 2018. It also works if you been treated poorly to tell your client you will live thousands of bad reviews on their business pages if they rate you poorly.

petra_r · ‎09-02-2021

Angel H wrote:
Nobody in Upwork knows how it works

This is fundamentally untrue. And those who do have an idea know that cancelled contracts only have an effect on the JSS if the client leaves poor (private) feedback.

Angel H wrote:
give refunds for everything, thats how I have a 100% jss since 2018.

How is that a way to run a business?

Angel H wrote:
It also works if you been treated poorly to tell your client you will live thousands of bad reviews on their business pages if they rate you poorly.

Until just one of those clients reports you to Upwork (or Upwork read it on their own forum) and immediately close down your profile for ever.

studiohelios · ‎09-02-2021

Its not untrue, only a few upwork employees know how exactly the jss system works.
We as users can only guess and estimate. And as you may now, custumer support for us freelancers is extremely poor and ambiguous.

As long as I make more money than I am refunding money it is an acceptable part of my business.

And yeah that is extremely dangerous, I might get flagged for that. But really, we as freelancers need to defend ourserselves here however we can. Upwork only protects clients.

petra_r · ‎09-02-2021

Angel H wrote:
Its not untrue

It is. We don't know the minutiae but we do know what does and does not affect the JSS. Or at least we do if we paid attention.

Angel H wrote:
As long as I make more money than I am refunding money it is an acceptable part of my business.

Your business. I've never had to refund anything. Not in all my years.

But if thats acceptable to you...

Angel H wrote:
But really, we as freelancers need to defend ourserselves here however we can. Upwork only protects clients.

I really think you may want to change the way you choose clients... And yes, Upwork would certainly (and absolutely rightly) protect clients against blackmailing freelancers.

studiohelios · ‎09-02-2021

No blackmail, just self defence. There are a lot of abusive clients in the platform and million of freelancers like me, that dont know how to choose clients and have no one to back us up.

It is our mistake not knowing how to choose clients, but that dosent give clients the right to be abusive.