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heather_fugate
Community Member

Chargebacks on Upwork

So, I am facing my first Chargeback on Upwork for $700. I am having trouble wrapping my head around the concept of delivering work to a client and them approving the three diffrent payments and so I got paid for those jobs and then 2 months later they are able to do a chargeback and then I'm stuck paying Upwork the $700. I didn't even know the client did a chargeback and I tried to withdrawl money from another job I did and I was restricted from withdrawaling funds. My questions is as a Freelancer it's part of business that you get those bad clients however how do you get over losing so much money? It bothers me because like in the real world if someone files a charback you can fight it showing matter of fact you did provide those services. Any encouraging advice would be appreciated. 

ACCEPTED SOLUTION
tlbp
Community Member

That's terrible. In a "normal" transaction it would be the vendor (you) who has money to lose who would be able to respond to a chargeback claim. I very much question Upwork's business model on this particular point. At the point it becomes a chargeback dispute, they should be acting as a third-party not a primary. But yes, there are other stories on the forums of freelancers being left with no money when a client initiates a chargeback through their credit card company. 

If the client has not paid for the work, you now own it and can resell it. Definitely issue a takedown notice if you spot them using your work online. 

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42 REPLIES 42
tlbp
Community Member

That's terrible. In a "normal" transaction it would be the vendor (you) who has money to lose who would be able to respond to a chargeback claim. I very much question Upwork's business model on this particular point. At the point it becomes a chargeback dispute, they should be acting as a third-party not a primary. But yes, there are other stories on the forums of freelancers being left with no money when a client initiates a chargeback through their credit card company. 

If the client has not paid for the work, you now own it and can resell it. Definitely issue a takedown notice if you spot them using your work online. 

lysis10
Community Member

This is why I LOL at freelancers claiming Upwork protects them and there is escrow "protection." There is no protection with escrow. It's why I try to always do hourly if I can get it. I will only do small jobs with new clients escrow (< $1000) because of this nonsense.

a_lipsey
Community Member


Jennifer M wrote:

This is why I LOL at freelancers claiming Upwork protects them and there is escrow "protection." There is no protection with escrow. It's why I try to always do hourly if I can get it. I will only do small jobs with new clients escrow (< $1000) because of this nonsense.


But hourly is attached to someone's credit card too, so how do you know they can't chargeback an hourly billing as well?

petra_r
Community Member


Amanda wrote:

Jennifer M wrote:

This is why I LOL at freelancers claiming Upwork protects them and there is escrow "protection." There is no protection with escrow. It's why I try to always do hourly if I can get it. I will only do small jobs with new clients escrow (< $1000) because of this nonsense.


But hourly is attached to someone's credit card too, so how do you know they can't chargeback an hourly billing as well?


You're covered under the protection if your time has been logged according to the terms.

 


Heather wrote:

 It's not that I don't have the money but it's the fact that Upwork is letting clients take advantage of the system.

Upwork do not "allow" it. When a bank does a chargeback the money is pulled from Upwork's account the second the chargeback hits. Upwork will try and defend it, but if the card has been used fraudulently for example (if the cardholder just found charges they did not authorise) there is not much defense against that.

A chargeback is a violation of the terms of service, the client account will have been suspended (remember that the client and the cardholder may not be the same person...)

 

Anyway, I am really sorry that happened to you.

 

 

 


Petra R wrote:

Amanda wrote:

Jennifer M wrote:

This is why I LOL at freelancers claiming Upwork protects them and there is escrow "protection." There is no protection with escrow. It's why I try to always do hourly if I can get it. I will only do small jobs with new clients escrow (< $1000) because of this nonsense.


But hourly is attached to someone's credit card too, so how do you know they can't chargeback an hourly billing as well?


You're covered under the protection if your time has been logged according to the terms.

 


Heather wrote:

 It's not that I don't have the money but it's the fact that Upwork is letting clients take advantage of the system.

Upwork do not "allow" it. When a bank does a chargeback the money is pulled from Upwork's account the second the chargeback hits. Upwork will try and defend it, but if the card has been used fraudulently for example (if the cardholder just found charges they did not authorise) there is not much defense against that.


I've seen you say before that Upwork will try to defend against chargebacks, but I can't recall ever having seen anyone else make that claim (no Upwork staff, for instance). And, it seems odd that if Upwork is in fact attempting to defend, not a single one of the many freelancers who have come to the forums upset about chargebacks has mentioned Upwork asking for any information that might be used in fighting a chargeback. 

 

Do you have actual direct knowledge of Upwork making a meaningful (as opposed to generic responses, which virutally always fail) effort to dispute chargebacks?

lysis10
Community Member


Amanda L wrote:

Jennifer M wrote:

This is why I LOL at freelancers claiming Upwork protects them and there is escrow "protection." There is no protection with escrow. It's why I try to always do hourly if I can get it. I will only do small jobs with new clients escrow (< $1000) because of this nonsense.


But hourly is attached to someone's credit card too, so how do you know they can't chargeback an hourly billing as well?


Petra already answered, but I'll reiterate that if you use Tracker and do things properly, you're covered with payment protection. I was paid out once on Elance due to a scammer. Never had to use it on Upwork. I had so many issues with hourly on Elance, but my experience on Upwork has been totally different. I have few problems with hourly and all my disputes have been over escrow. ALMOST got hit with a chargeback too on the last one, which would have been $500 out of my pocket.

 

I'm extremely picky about taking escrow from new clients and it's usually amounts under $1000. The only thing you get from escrow is that you know there is money on some card, but that's it.

I'm so livid right now, so the client decided he was going to get everything for free after seeing how easy it was. SO now I owe upwork $1040,00 and that's even after reversing some funds from me. It's not that I don't have the money but it's the fact that Upwork is letting clients take advantage of the system. imagine I did a charge back for all the connects that i've bought off upwork. I am sure they would be just as thrilled as I am right now. He was a new client and I landed the job as a newbie so I didn't know but this is not okay no matter what candid response anyone gives. 

Heather,

 

I am sorry to see you have had such an early exposure to such an unscrupulous client and Upwork's inability to protect your payments for work performed.

 

As you have seen, Upwork offers no reliable assurance of payment on fixed-price projects and many projects are not valuable enough to justify a freelancer paying $291 to go that route in a dispute with a client. It would be interesting to know how much money freelancers are forced to return to Upwork due to fraud, but Upwork's lists a Provision for Transaction Losses of $1.2 million in its quarterly report for the three months ended 9/30/19. We don't know whether this cost was primarily due to the type of fraud you have been the victim of, but this cost for the same period last year was $1.9 million, so Upwork is clearly making headway reducing some types of fraud.

 

I don't know why Upwork offers more payment protection to freelancers for work done under hourly projects, but that extra protection is a good reason to do as many projects as possible as hourly, not fixed-price, projects. I have the choice to only do hourly projects, so that is almost entirely all I use for new clients.

 

Good luck.

Or Upwork's been able to clawback a much higher amount from freelancers this year than they did last year, meaning the net amount of fraud-related losses reported to shareholders has gone down.

 

There is no way for an outsider to know.


Heather F wrote:

I'm so livid right now, so the client decided he was going to get everything for free after seeing how easy it was. SO now I owe upwork $1040,00 and that's even after reversing some funds from me. It's not that I don't have the money but it's the fact that Upwork is letting clients take advantage of the system. imagine I did a charge back for all the connects that i've bought off upwork. I am sure they would be just as thrilled as I am right now. He was a new client and I landed the job as a newbie so I didn't know but this is not okay no matter what candid response anyone gives. 


It's not Upwork's fault. That's how online banking and credit cards work. The only thing they could do is disable fixed contracts. Therefore don't do big fixed contracts.

Also, Upwork needs to charge the freelancer for this. Because a client and freelancer could cooperate to milk out Upwork.

Though, they should add some kind of notice. People should know about the chargeback risk before agreeing for a fixed-price contract. 

VladimirG
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Heather,

 

I understand your frustration with the issue that occurred with the payment on your contract. I do see our team has been communicating with you since you received the initial notification and notification, as well as sharing all the details about the status of your funds and changes in your account status. I also see our team advised about the available actions and steps as your disposal, and shared related Payment Protection requirements and guidelines. Please refer to your support ticket and continue communicating with our team since we can't discuss chargeback cases in the forums.

~ Vladimir
Upwork

Can you clarify upwork policy:

 

- If work is per hour, Upwork pays worker even if there is a chargeback (stolen card).

- If work is project based, Upwork will not compensate worker if there is a chargeback (stolen card).

 

Is that correct?

Upwork's payment assurance for hourly contracts is in place as long as:

 

1) You track your work time for a project using the TimeTracker app (any manually-added work time on the project is not covered, even if the client "approved" the use of manual time)

2) You work only on the project during each time period tracked

3) You provide "meaningful" notes in the memo section of each tracked period

4) There is no substantial idle time during the work period (meaning you have keyboard and/or mouse activity during each 10-minute sub-period tracked)

5) The client's payment method has already been verified by Upwork (and you have not gotten notice from Upwork to stop working on the project due to problems with the client's previously verified payment method) 

 

Someone who regularly uses fixed rate projects can tell you how payment assurance works for them.

A- To your point #5, as a worker how to know if a payment is verified? "5) The client's payment method has already been verified by Upwork"

 

B- Can you link the payment assurance terms?

 

C- All other replies in this thread say there is no assurance to project work and only to hourly work. Are you sure about this?

 

*I should clarify that by projects I meant *fixed contracts*.

 

 

Hi Asterisk,

 

It'll be shown on the job posting whether the client's payment method is verified and a freelancer will be notified when they submit proposals. You can find more information about it here

If you'd like to find more information about Upwork Protection for fixed-price and hourly contracts, check out Fixed-Price Escrow Instructions and Hourly, Bonus, and Expense Payment Agreement with Escrow Instructions.

~ Valeria
Upwork

Thanks for the reply.

From what you said I understand that if a payment method is NOT verified then either fixed contract term or hourly projects are not protected under payment assurance program.

Is that correct?

Thanks,

Yes, you should confirm Upwork has verified the client's payment method before you start work on a project. (Oddly, Upwork will allow work time to be tracked by TimeTracker before the client's payment method is initially confirmed, but if a problem arises with the payment method after the project begins Upwork will not allow TimeTracker to continue to track time.)

But there are other elements that must be in place before payment assurance is available under hourly contracts.

Under fixed price contracts, winning at arbitration is the only way to assure payment of escrowed funds.

Thanks.

 

Can you please detail the "But there are other elements that must be in place before payment assurance is available under hourly contracts."

 

Is there a solid list for this?

petra_r
Community Member

Asterisk, why are you so interested in this particular aspect? 

 


Asterisk C wrote:

 

Is there a solid list for this?


Yes. Here

talhamughal998
Community Member

Today is the black day of my freelancing on upwork as today I've been frauded officially by a client with the help of upwork. I was always thinkin it's a safe platform but after today I'll not say it again. A client comes and get all the work done then simply submitt a request of "CHARGBACK" and theft all the money. We put efforts and our time. But for upwork client is client. "Freelancer" you just go to hell. we don't care about your time, efforts. I've been working from last 2 months and hardly make $450 and he got my full dedication and results on his project and also those $450 in the form of "CHARGBACK". This is completely unfair. 1000% unfair. Because client has all the opportunities such as asking for revisions, giving bad ratings, etc. But freelancers doesn't have any single benefit. They just put a "CHARGEBACK" request and say "Hey freelancer Go To Hell".  I just wana say if upwork is charging 20%, 10% or 5% fee from freelancers then they should give them protection. And remove this "CHARGEBACK" method from client area. They are scamming officially with this option

Hi, Muhammad T.,

 

I hate to see any fellow freelancer ripped off by a dishonest client.

 

But I have learned alot from other freelancers on this message board - would you mind telling us more about this fraud?

 

Was the contract hourly or fixed price?

 

Had you worked for the client before without any problems?

 

Do you feel like you did everything you were supposed to do under Upwork's payment assurance rules?

 

Did Upwork give you a reason for charging you back for the fees you earned?

 

Is the client still active on Upwork?

 

Every freelancer on Upwork has likely made a mistake or two that they won't repeat. I have lost a bit of  money myself due to client mischief, ignorance, laziness or fraud, but it hasn't been serious enough for me to want to leave Upwork in the long run. I hope that is the case for you.

Hello Mr Will L,

 

It was a fixed price offer sent by the client

 

No, It was my first job with this client

 

Yes, I've followed all the rules and regulations of upwork's payment protection. My contract is 100% fine. Even he given me 5 star ratings and a write a very good comment that is still available on my profile. He released the payment by himself and ended up the contract with his complete satisfaction. So there's nothing that I can say was going againts the rules and regulations of upwork. 

 

Upwork  gave me a reason that I think is completely "Non Sense" reason for a freelancer I've attached a file of reason that you can see it.

 

Yes, he's still active on upwork and I'm sure he'll do this brutality with other freelancers as well. 

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

I'm sorry that this happened to you, but you should be angry with the client rather than with Upwork. Say somebody had their credit card stolen and it was used to pay you - don't you think that this person should get their money back? It's not possible for Upwork to refuse the request, and they've been cheated out of their payment as well, so you are both victims of this client.

Hello Mrs Christine A, 

 

I hope you are doing well. I agree with you that if someone's card has been stolen or being used for payments he must get the funds back. But do tell me one thing. Is it the freelancer who steal  his card? If it's freelancer then freelancer should be punished. And If it's not a freelancer then that person should be punished. And In my case it's the client.

 

This is completely unfair with a freelancer. They should take action against this type of clients not charge back the amount from freelancers. As freelancer works harder and harder to run his profile in initial stages. we don't sleep all over the nights to win the clients and satisfy them.

 

Another thing is that you'll only say "sorry" because you're not suffering from this situation. It's very easy to write 5 characters for you. 

Hi Muhammad,

 

I'm very sorry to hear about how this experience has inconvenienced you. I can see that you've already replied to the communication the team sent to you, rest assured they will be getting back to you to assist you further.

 

Thank you.

~ Luiggi
Upwork

Yes, they've replied but after a long time. Kindly ask them to solve my issue soon. Because, I'm in extreem level of stress due to this situation. 

Hi Muhammad,

 

Please allow more time for our team to review your case and respond accordingly to your ticket. You will be notified of their response.

 

Thank you for your patience,

~ Nikola
Upwork
21c77b7a
Community Member

Hi everyone,

It’s wrong to do a chargeback but what if the freelancer doesn’t complete the project and there is no protection for the client. I hired a freelancer to build a website since May and I’ve gave him many chances to finished the project. He logs his hours faster than actually getting work done. I have to move my launch date 4 times and I still don’t have a fully functional website. It’s up to the freelancer to refund if he can’t complete the project, and upwork can’t do anything. Every time he asked for more hours, I approved it because I trust he would finish the project on time. He took on another project, he can only work on my project when he has time. The freelancer always complains that he has to work offline to fix issues. WTF? It his code and his design, if he doesn’t he has to fix it. My back is against the wall. I cannot wait anymore, time is money. I cannot make money without a website.

Hello Joe,

 

Thank you for your message. I am sorry to hear about your experience with a freelancer. I see that you have already communicated with our support team and there was a support ticket initiated for the same concern. Please don't hesitate to follow up with them directly on the same ticket if you have additional questions regarding your concern. 

 

Thank you

Pradeep

Upwork

Joe:

Your problem is not this freelancer.

 

Your problem is that your project manager is not doing her job.

 

It is not the freelancer’s responsibility to ensure that your web development project succeeds.

 

It is not Upwork’s responsibility to endure that your web development project succeeds.

 

That is the project manager’s responsibility.

 

Your project manager needs to assign work to productive members of the team, and fire unproductive members of the team, or at least stop assigning them the majority of the work.

 

When you asked the project manager why she is not doing her job, what did she say?

 

You need to think about this logically:

This has been going on since May. Your site launch has been repeatedly delayed.

 

Do you truly believe that this particular freelancer’s primary goal is to finish your website? You said he took on another big project and rarely works on your site. This freelancer’s main goal is earning money. This freelancer is achieving his goal.

 

Your goal is to get this website working. You are not achieving your goal.

 

So if the freelancer is achieving his goal, and you are not achieving his goal… what does that tell you about who needs to change what they are doing?

Seriously?  I pay a freelancer to build out a fully functional website. I spend hours doing Q/A because the developer doesn't check his own work. I've repeatedly asked him to check his work before sending it over to me. Here I am still waiting. Yes, I am not achieving my goal because the freelancer isn't doing his job of building the website the correct way. I've done hours of a video recording showing him what I wanted. Still, he doesn't get it. If I could build the website myself, I would hire a developer. I've hired two freelancers before and they were great. Freelancer told me that he took on a bigger project so his time will be dedicated to that project. He can only work on my website when he has time. **Edited for Community Guidelines**Your reply makes no sense. 

re: "Seriously?"

Yes. This is serious.

 

re: "I pay a freelancer to build out a fully functional website. I spend hours doing Q/A because the developer doesn't check his own work."

 

Q/A is a very important part of a project like this. If you want your project to succeed, somebody needs to do Q/A.


That person does not necessarily need to be the lead developer. Or it could be the lead developer and another person. How this is done is not a principle that Upwork dictates.

 

As a practical matter, if you hired a lead dev who doesn't do Q/A, then by definition, you need to hire somebody else to do Q/A. Or you need to do it yourself.

 

These are basic project management principles. These principles don't really have anything to do with Upwork, specifically.

 

Also, keep in mind the difference between hourly versus fixed-price contracts. If I hire a freelancer using a fixed-price contract, then the freelancer is begin paid to create and turn in a specific deliverable. A freelancer can finish that deliverable and turn it in without doing Q/A. Or with very minimal Q/A. The freelancer is not getting paid for his time, so there isn't necessarily any motivation to do things outside of the written task agreement: Such as Q/A. Such as documentation. Such as training, etc.

 

If I am serious about hiring freelancers to work on my develpment project and if quality is highly important, then I will use hourly contract as a default.

 

The fixed-price contract model is not used to ensure the highest level fo quality. It is used to determine beforehand what a specific task or deliverable will cost.

 

re: "I've repeatedly asked him to check his work before sending it over to me. Here I am still waiting."

 

This is a project management issue. If you have one member on your team who does CSS front-end design, and you have another member of your team who does not do that type of work... Then when you want somebody to work on CSS front-end design on your project, you ask the one who does.

 

You are complaining about having had to repeatedly ask a developer to check his work before sending it to you. This is not an Upwork issue. This is a project management issue.

 

You have options:

 

- You can appreciate the work that this developer does and ask another member of the team to check it further

- You can communicate with this developer the importance of checking his work and doing Q/A. This is a "training and personnel development" matter. It may or may not be possible to convert him to working the way you want him to.

- If this problem is being caused because you are using fixed-price contracts instead of hourly, then you can switch to hourly.

- You can stop working with this developer and assign work to somebody else entirely.

 

re: "Yes, I am not achieving my goal because the freelancer isn't doing his job of building the website the correct way."

 

It is not this individual freelancer's responsibility to ensure that your website is completed the correct way. Nor is it Upwork's responsibility. It is the project manager's responsibility.

 

This not a "quirk" of the Upwork system. This has nothing to do with this individual freelancer, or you as a client, or with this particular project. These are general software engineering principles.

 

Upwork can not "choose" to create a system in which a client can hire a single freelance developer and ensure that a project will by completed successfully.

 

re: "I've done hours of a video recording showing him what I wanted. Still, he doesn't get it."

 

Much of what you have said in this thread indicates an extreme focus on this one freelancer, at the expense of your project. By focusing on one individual freelancer, particularly one who is not providing you with what you need, you are not following successful project management principles.

 

It is not the fault of this single freelance developer that your project is not going the way you want it to go. It is the fault of the project manager.

 

You are putting interest in and concern over this freelancer ahead of your own needs, and ahead of the success of your project.

 

Your project would be better off if you took a more dispassionate, less personal approach.

 

Are you thinking of this individual freelancer as in indispensable element who is key to the success of your project? Or are you thinking of this freelancer as a means to an end?

 

Did you know that the rock band Queen still tours and records new albums, even though Freddie Mercury is dead? If Queen can go on without Freddie Mercury, is it possible that your project can go on without relying solely on this one freelancer? A freelancer who (let's be honest) nobody has ever heard of, and whose skills can be found among thousands of other Upwork freelancers.

 

re: "If I could build the website myself, I would hire a developer. I've hired two freelancers before and they were great."

 

This is an important insight. You know that not all developers are the same. You know that there are freelancers who can be great. One of the most important things that a client or project manager can do is to fire underperforming freelancers and assign work to the top performers on their team.

 

re: "Freelancer told me that he took on a bigger project so his time will be dedicated to that project. He can only work on my website when he has time."

 

This is valuable information that you received from this freelancer. In telling you this, he is trying to help you out. You know that you need to keep this freelancer on as a consultant who does a small amount of work in helping you transition to other developers. But you should no longer plan to have the bulk of the work that remains done by this freelancer.

 

re: "Your reply makes no sense."

If there is any part of my previous post, or this one, that does not make sense, please point it out. My interest here is only in helping you succeed with your goals, and with helping other people who read this thread learn how to succeed.

 

======

Summary:
I think the most important things that you need to understand and incorporate into your efforts as a client are:

 

- It is not the responsibility of any individual developer to ensure that your development project succeeds. It is the project manager's responsibility.

 

- You should not rely on one individual developer to complete a project of this size and scope. Especially somebody who has already tried to tell you that he is no longer interested in working on your project.

 

- You should not put the needs of a freelancer ahead of your own needs and the needs of your project.

Preston,
Joe put trust in a freelancer to comeplete a project that the freelancer agreed that he could do just like my post above. You can blame the program management, but I assume Joe's situation could be similar to mine. While working on the project I asked for demos, updates, and clarity, I defined what should be worked on and met with the freelancer to clarify, I gave the freelancer autonomy to work and manually track hours, I asked the freelancer to stop working on one area of the project because it is not wha to wanted (he didn't stop), I told the freelancer the UI is fine I need functionality (he kept only working on the UI). None of this worked all he did was continue to say he needed to keep working on the UI.

I am a program manager at Microsoft, I own a start-up, and I am a project manager at a software construction company, I have a bachelors and masters in compsci and I am saying you can employ all the program management skill you want and trust in people and still have a freelancer try to screw you over. My freelancer confirmed this would be an easy job and they had done something like this before. Then later he said it is not possible. My response was, "then why did you charge 650 hours, what have you been working on. He then contradicted himself saying he needs more money and more devices to test in and we can create a new contract for that. The point of this job was to create an app that connects to devices that I specified and now he is saying it's not possible then he said he needs me to allow more time and pay more and send him products. It was insane and Upwork did NOTHING, along with that the freelancer assume I don't know what I'm talking about so I had 3 developers come to the same conclusion. I didn't even tell 2 of the developers there was dispute I just asked them to review the code and tell me what it does and try to compile it into an application. 
Joe if I get my money back please reach out to me I will help you I'll even give you money because I feel bad for what has happened and I am extremely disappointed in the way Upwork has handled this. 
please do not be discouraged by Preston's comments program manager (I can confirm) get paid a lot of money to try to make this happened by aligning in key areas and this does not always work if you are not a PM you may not know all in the ins and outs. I can tell you I will NEVER do an hourly contract again I will always do a milestone based contract with strict deliverables because I have learned my lesson that instead of trusting people and trying to give them space to work if you provide bounds and pay based off the completion of those bounds it protects you and the freelancer and they don't get paid until they accomplish the tasks set in the milestones. Remember no one gets paid if the business does not get paid so you,Joe, as the business have to protect yourself. Upwork won't protect you nor will anyone else. 


Darius S wrote:

I asked the freelancer to stop working on one area of the project because it is not wha to wanted (he didn't stop), I told the freelancer the UI is fine I need functionality (he kept only working on the UI). None of this worked all he did was continue to say he needed to keep working on the UI.


Then why did you continue to work with them??? If you elected to act as project manager, then you failed utterly in this case.

 


Darius S wrote:

I am a program manager at Microsoft, I own a start-up, and I am a project manager at a software construction company, I have a bachelors and masters in compsci and I am saying you can employ all the program management skill you want and trust in people and still have a freelancer try to screw you over.


As I have been informed by my grandfather, who was a technical Program Manager at a few large companies including Grumman and EDS, Program Management =/= Project Management. You say you do both. How did you let a freelancer charge you 650 hours (16.25 weeks @ 40 hours each) with little to show for it, especially when it became obvious that they refused to do what you requested? Did you forget about the project for a couple months?

Hi Joe,

 

I am sorry to hear about the frustration this has caused. I shared your concern with the team handling your case and one of our agents will follow up with you on your support ticket as soon as possible to assist you further. 

 

~ Nikola
Upwork
7ed48e76
Community Member

Yeah can you did for my ticket to? Can you ban the freelancer that is screwing me over and has 3 other bad reviews? And can I get my money back so I do not have to sue? Can my account be reopened so I can continue business?

Joe I am in the same situation a freelancer "claims" they did 650 hours of work at $50/hour. With all this "work" I looked through every line of code with 3 different developers and everyone of them told me that there is nothing that the freelancer did that aligns with the contract and the work they did does not equate to more than 40 hours MAX. I went through the dispute and mediation process and Upwork agree that the freelancer should pay me some money back because he could not show or prove that he did actually complete work that aligned with the project. The freelancer refused and Upwork closed my dispute, pretty much saying their is nothing they could do. So after gathering all the evidence I asked for the freelancers information to sue them or there company and Upwork references the subpoena protocol and did not provide me with this information. Therefore I talked to my credit card company to get my money back and they chargeback a good portion of the money that this freelancer charged (manual time entry no time tracker tool). Now my account is suspended and my other freelancers cannot get paid because this freelancer tried to rip me off. He did not do the work I asked h to do and continued to say "I am working on it I just need more time", "I have to keep building the UI", "the project is not possible", "buy me more products to use on your project", etc. He has 3 other reviews saying the same thing that happened to me that I didn't believe and now I do. I loved Upwork and thought it was a trusted platform that protected clients also, but as you can see the only way for clients to be able to get money back for a freelancer who does not work on your project is a chargeback. They do not protect clients even when the freelancer in the dispute process does not provide any evidence of them doing the work you asked. 
The other owner of my business has about 400k followers across social media and she is going to make videos about everything that has happened and she is going on Reddit to talk about our experiences here. It is insane they now my account is suspended when I tried to do everything the way that Upwork wanted and they did nothing to this freelancer after the freelancer rarely even responded to the messages in the dispute process. The best Upwork did was offer $2000 in Upwork credit which is only a fraction of the about ~35,000 spent on this contract. Which does not even account for the wasted called, zooms, IMs, reviewed work, and lost time working on a project that directly affects my business.

People need to know about my experience on Upwork and how there is no protection for clients they just freeze or ban your account and give you no money back even tho as a small business $35,000 is a huge expense that literally is killing my business right now. It caused me to have to take out a business loan because I HAVE to have this application built and now I have to completely start over.

These kind of videos go crazy viral on TikTok, instsgram, Reddit, Twitter, and YouTube and the other business owner is preparing them as we speak. And I am going to post about it too.

shefun
Community Member

Hi Darius,

I and my team did work on this contract for about 4 months. We did UI/UX design for the huge product and also implemented the design + did integrate all devices from Aquara home + integrated including IP cameras + Amazon smart home + google home + apple home.

You are trying to cheat the platform and get the job for free. We did spend 1600+h on your project and you did pay 35000$ for that. Now you received the fully working application, all design assets, and the source code for the app.

Now you are trying to say that the app does not cover all third-party integrations which you would like to have. But any adequate person will understand that if you would like to create an app that will be integrated with ALL smart home devices on the market it will take some time to develop it. You did pay only for 650h of work and keep saying that you did not get what you want. If you want we can go to any expert in cross-platform mobile development area who know how to build apps using Xamarin to get a consultation and this expert can tell you that the quality of the app that we developed for you has high-quality code. And to develop it you will need much more than 650h. For example, you can ask **Edited for Community Guidelines**or **Edited for Community Guidelines** They are Xamarin evangelists and for sure know how to build apps.

**Edited for Community Guidelines**


Please stop lying and saying that you did not get what you did pay for. It was not 1 payment, you are trying to do a chargeback for 8 transactions(1 transaction per week) so it is 2 months of work together. If you did think that we are going in the wrong direction you had a few months to say that and stop the contract instead of trying to get a job for free.

 

Kind regards,

Sergii

Hi All,

 

We've closely followed this conversation and thank the participants for their valuable input. Since interpersonal disputes and accusations of misconduct are not allowed by Community Guidelines, we will be closing the thread.

 

Darius,

 

I would like to refer you to the ticket you have with our executive team. If you have further questions or need additional assistance please feel free to follow up on your ticket and our team will be happy to assist you further. You can access your ticket on this page.

 

~ Nikola
Upwork
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