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jessicasimko
Community Member

Client Invite Limitations

In the town hall today it was mentioned that new clients are not going to be limited to 3 invites anymore.... is this correct? Is this a change from what was rolled out a few weeks ago where it was definitely limited to 3?  She said that it will vary by "what type of job" and "what type of client".  But then she said she didn't want to go into that in this town hall.  Can someone please explain if this is going to be a new change and how it works in terms of the job and the client?

27 REPLIES 27
lysis10
Community Member

oooooooh now this is good news.

 

Don't care about connect price at all, but this change made me rage. Cat Mad

Yes! If this client invite limitations changed, then I don't really care about the issue with the connects. But there was no other info provided on the call. I hope someone from Upwork will elaborate on this.


Jessica S wrote:

Yes! If this client invite limitations changed, then I don't really care about the issue with the connects. But there was no other info provided on the call. I hope someone from Upwork will elaborate on this.


Me too. It would be cool if it's changed. They don't seem to announce when they reverse changes, so I wonder if they can tell us.

yitwail
Community Member

But if this is true, then why would clients put up $49.99 for Plus membership? (and why does Plus membership have to have $.99 at the end?)

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce


Jessica S wrote:

Yes! If this client invite limitations changed, then I don't really care about the issue with the connects. But there was no other info provided on the call. I hope someone from Upwork will elaborate on this.


This is what they told me on chat after the webinar:

 

"Upon checking, we often hear from freelancers who are frustrated because they receive too many job post invitations for jobs that don’t match their skills, pay rate, etc. Because of these concerns, we are testing out limiting the number of invites a client can send to three per job post. A very small group of Upwork clients are part of this test and it is just one of the many tests we run as we work to improve Upwork. To send more invitations per job post, client will need to upgrade their post to a “Featured Job.” they can upgrade from the “Post a Job” page if they still have invites remaining."

 

That is not however what they said during the webinar. She indicated that it's a sliding scale, similar to the new connects pricing. Guess I need to go back and revisit that webinar.


Kelly B wrote:

Jessica S wrote:

Yes! If this client invite limitations changed, then I don't really care about the issue with the connects. But there was no other info provided on the call. I hope someone from Upwork will elaborate on this.


This is what they told me on chat after the webinar:

 

"Upon checking, we often hear from freelancers who are frustrated because they receive too many job post invitations for jobs that don’t match their skills, pay rate, etc. Because of these concerns, we are testing out limiting the number of invites a client can send to three per job post. A very small group of Upwork clients are part of this test and it is just one of the many tests we run as we work to improve Upwork. To send more invitations per job post, client will need to upgrade their post to a “Featured Job.” they can upgrade from the “Post a Job” page if they still have invites remaining."

 

That is not however what they said during the webinar. She indicated that it's a sliding scale, similar to the new connects pricing. Guess I need to go back and revisit that webinar.


You talked to them on chat after today's town hall and they said that? This "testing it out" thing is what we all read on the forum shortly before they rolled out the Clients Plus plan - that the new 3 invite rule is just being tested with a smalll group of clients. But AFTER that, they rolled out the Client's plus plan and made it law.

 

I am so confused....

 

Interesting that no one on Upwork has responded to this. I will keep this thread on the first page of chat until it's answered. This 3 invite rule is the one thing that can ruin my experience on this platform and I would like answers....

They haven't committed to anything on this particular thing. The answer was pretty vague, something about sliding scale. Thankfully, the host "got it", and that's enough for me. /s

gawd, I really hope they weren't catering to the people who cry about not getting targeted invites. I really hope that's not the reason and they are just throwing the fault on those mental midgets.

 

I would really like to know, too, Jessica. I feel like 10 is a better number if they want to limit invites. 3 is way too low. It doesn't account for freelancers who will decline or just not answer.


Jennifer M wrote:

gawd, I really hope they weren't catering to the people who cry about not getting targeted invites. I really hope that's not the reason and they are just throwing the fault on those mental midgets.

 

I would really like to know, too, Jessica. I feel like 10 is a better number if they want to limit invites. 3 is way too low. It doesn't account for freelancers who will decline or just not answer.


My thoughts exactly. Limiting invites because UW's poor matching algorithm recommends random FL to clients - just awful. 

 

Also, as Petra mentioned, client-selected budgets and project lengths are no reliable factors on which to base the amount of connects needed. Clients hire FLs because they need help and more often than not don't know what that entails and how long it will take. That and loads of ridiculously high budgets serving as clickbait...

kochubei_valeria
Community Member

Hi Jessica and others,

 

Sorry about the delayed reply. Client invitation limits are dynamic, taking into account job and client details. We’ve heard your concerns about the three-invite limit, and we are already planning to allow all clients who post high-value jobs (based on budget and length of project) to invite six freelancers to submit a proposal. This change will occur before the move to paid Connects takes place, however for the next few weeks clients will continue to receive three invites unless they upgrade their job to a “Featured Job” or subscribe to our Client Plus plan.

~ Valeria
Upwork


Valeria K wrote:

Hi Jessica and others,

 

Sorry about the delayed reply. Client invitation limits are dynamic, taking into account job and client details. We’ve heard your concerns about the three-invite limit, and we are already planning to allow all clients who post high-value jobs (based on budget and length of project) to invite six freelancers to submit a proposal. This change will occur before the move to paid Connects takes place, however for the next few weeks clients will continue to receive three invites unless they upgrade their job to a “Featured Job” or subscribe to our Client Plus plan.


Thanks Valeria! Can you share what a “high value” project is? Most of mine are one-off $300 to $600 projects but oftentimes many post it in the $200 range (and sometimes lower) and still hire me at my higher rate. How many invites will these clients get?


Valeria K wrote:

 

Sorry about the delayed reply. Client invitation limits are dynamic, taking into account job and client details. We’ve heard your concerns about the three-invite limit, and we are already planning to allow all clients who post high-value jobs (based on budget and length of project) to invite six freelancers to submit a proposal.


How many minutes do you guys reckon those clients will need to figure that out and then just post their jobs with artificially inflated budgets to get the higher limit, leading to freelancers wasting even more connects to apply to jobs with a budget that isn't the budget at all.

 

Personally I think all that "based on budget / length of project" stuff is not going to work.

 

 

reinierb
Community Member


Petra R wrote:

Valeria K wrote:

 

Sorry about the delayed reply. Client invitation limits are dynamic, taking into account job and client details. We’ve heard your concerns about the three-invite limit, and we are already planning to allow all clients who post high-value jobs (based on budget and length of project) to invite six freelancers to submit a proposal.


How many minutes do you guys reckon those clients will need to figure that out and then just post their jobs with artificially inflated budgets to get the higher limit, leading to freelancers wasting even more connects to apply to jobs with a budget that isn't the budget at all.

 

Personally I think all that "based on budget / length of project" stuff is not going to work.

 

The only way this "based on budget / length of project" idea can work is if clients are penalized in some way if they post a high budget and then award the job at a lower budget.

 

I was thinking that offending clients may be banned from posting jobs for say, 30 days, but then again clients are untouchable, so I don't think my idea will work either. 


 

petra_r
Community Member


Reinier B wrote:

I was thinking that offending clients may be banned from posting jobs for say, 30 days, but then again clients are untouchable, so I don't think my idea will work either. 


 


Why would you be for preventing clients from spending money, banning them for 30 days so they can go to other platforms to post their jobs and never come back?

 

Every Dollar not spent by a client is a Dollar (well, $ 0.80) not in a freelancer's pocket. Seriously, I don't get people who think preventing clients from spending money is good business practice.

 

 

How would sending money away ever be "a good thing?"

There is no profit in "punishing" those who bring the money.

 

How about charging clients 1-6 connects per invitation, at $0.15 per connect?


Richard W wrote:

How about charging clients 1-6 connects per invitation, at $0.15 per connect?



Woman LOL 

Thanks for the laughs!


Petra R wrote:

Valeria K wrote:

 

Sorry about the delayed reply. Client invitation limits are dynamic, taking into account job and client details. We’ve heard your concerns about the three-invite limit, and we are already planning to allow all clients who post high-value jobs (based on budget and length of project) to invite six freelancers to submit a proposal.


How many minutes do you guys reckon those clients will need to figure that out and then just post their jobs with artificially inflated budgets to get the higher limit, leading to freelancers wasting even more connects to apply to jobs with a budget that isn't the budget at all.

 

Personally I think all that "based on budget / length of project" stuff is not going to work.

 

 


Agree. There is no way to reliably gauge project value based on stated time and budget parameters. Instead, they should look at client's hiring history--ratio of hires to posts and avg amount/rate paid. Assigned value of a given post would still be speculative but grounded in more reliable predictors, IMO.


Phyllis G wrote:

Agree. There is no way to reliably gauge project value based on stated time and budget parameters. Instead, they should look at client's hiring history--ratio of hires to posts and avg amount/rate paid. Assigned value of a given post would still be speculative but grounded in more reliable predictors, IMO.


This can't work because this pay to invite thing is only for new clients or ones not active in past 15 months so most won't have a work history.  I also agree it won't work though. They should allow 6 for all.  Many clients put low budgets in but are willing to pay more.

 

A sliding scale isn't fair because the final price of project may not look at all like the initial budget. Clients are guessing at this stage... why does Upwork have to make everything so difficult? 

To echo some others, I don't think basing it on client posted budget will work either. Legitimate clients don't really post large budgets. They post a small budget for a one-time deal to test things out, and then either keep adding milestones or keep working with the freelance on hourly jobs.

 

I think most people post $$$ and 1-3 months for hourly and then for escrow it's like $100-$200 maybe. That turns into a longer job if things work out. Maybe it's different in other areas like programming.

 

As a matter of fact, I would say most scammers post very high budgets to get as many freelancers to get sucked into whatever they are trying to do.

browersr
Community Member

I posted the same thing concerning Connects cost being based on client budget/project parameters. This is a fool's errand. There is zero accountability for what is posted by a client in this regard. A client can post a budget of $50k and wind up doing the project for $1k. Similarly, the project can show a low budget but the outcome can actually be many many times that which was shown originally. Selecting project length is  a complete joke in certain job circles. Client's often have no idea (nor is it expected they would) as they are sourcing in areas far from their primary expertise. Additionally, one client's "high" budget is another's low budget. The concept of what constitutes "Expert" from "Entry Level" and what is a high hourly versus low is both regionally based and incredibly subjective. 

 

It's going to be interesting to see client reaction to this as we already know freelancer reaction. I wonder what kind of education there will be when it comes to setting project parameters. Many good clients not knowing how to accurately gauge time/cost will find far less quality freelancers are applying because the freelancer will now pay. Before we may have taken the risk in hopes of engaging in conversation and educating the client on what's realistic. Not anymore (or in far lower numbers). Invite limits, based on self-provided answers with no accountability, will be manipulated as Petra mentioned. 


Scott B wrote:

I posted the same thing concerning Connects cost being based on client budget/project parameters. This is a fool's errand. There is zero accountability for what is posted by a client in this regard. A client can post a budget of $50k and wind up doing the project for $1k. Similarly, the project can show a low budget but the outcome can actually be many many times that which was shown originally. Selecting project length is  a complete joke in certain job circles. Client's often have no idea (nor is it expected they would) as they are sourcing in areas far from their primary expertise. Additionally, one client's "high" budget is another's low budget. The concept of what constitutes "Expert" from "Entry Level" and what is a high hourly versus low is both regionally based and incredibly subjective. 

 

It's going to be interesting to see client reaction to this as we already know freelancer reaction. I wonder what kind of education there will be when it comes to setting project parameters. Many good clients not knowing how to accurately gauge time/cost will find far less quality freelancers are applying because the freelancer will now pay. Before we may have taken the risk in hopes of engaging in conversation and educating the client on what's realistic. Not anymore (or in far lower numbers). Invite limits, based on self-provided answers with no accountability, will be manipulated as Petra mentioned. 


 

This is so important. I can't imagine that Upwork leadership has not thought of this? Most of my clients tell me they have no idea how much the going rate is for the work. I have had many clients pay me $450 on a $100 budget job.

 

Has Upwork management considered that the best freelancers paying for connects likely won't waste their money/connects on these jobs despite that they can be quite lucrative?  You would be chasing off potentially good clients if they can only invite 3 and no or only low-level freelancers apply because they put in too low of a budget by mistake. I can't tell you how many times I responded to invites saying, "I would be happy to help but I can't do this for $100" and how many times someone came back saying "I know, I just had to put something in, can you price this for me?".  

 

But! Sometimes, they truly are only willing to pay $100. I would NEVER know unless I talked to the client. However.... If I saw that job in my job feed for $100 and had to PAY to apply, I would skip it for sure. It wouldn't be worth the money to find out that they can only pay $100.  This is why limiting invites AND paying for connects based on job length and budget CAN NEVER WORK.  This is the NORM.. not the exception.

I just don't understand. The way Upwork makes money is for clients to come here and hire good freelancers. The easier (and faster and cheaper) Upwork makes it for the client to FIND the good freelancer in the first place, the greater the chances that the client will continue to use Upwork.

 

A quick google search says Upwork has 6 MILLION freelancers? And out of that pool they're going to recommend 6 freelancers, 5 of whom may not even respond? That's just nonsensical. Fix the algorithm or train your talent specialists better, but it behooves you to do everything you can to "connect" clients with good freelancers.

I just received 1 of 220 invitations to a dodgy job. (Posting Amazon reviews. Job advertised at $75 fixed price, but client has always paid  $5 on previous similar jobs.)

 

Since this wasn't a Plus or Featured job, I assume the new-ish invitation limits don't apply to pre-existing clients. Is that going to change?

 

P.S. If the goal is to reduce the number of unwanted invitations (which I welcome), please consider applying filters to invitations. I wouldn't have received this invitation if my job feed filters had been applied.


Richard W wrote:

I just received 1 of 220 invitations to a dodgy job. (Posting Amazon reviews. )


I hope you flagged it - those are not allowed on Upwork!


Petra R wrote:

Richard W wrote:

I just received 1 of 220 invitations to a dodgy job. (Posting Amazon reviews. )


I hope you flagged it - those are not allowed on Upwork!


I did. In fact I was unable to reply to it, as it had apparently been closed already. It's certainly shown as Closed in my proposal archive. But I can see that the number of invitations has now risen to 246. Maybe that's just a time lag thing.

 

This client has been posting similar jobs since January, and has made over 100 hires on them (mostly at $5 each). I suppose it's an easy 5* review, whatever the money.


Jennifer M wrote:

To echo some others, I don't think basing it on client posted budget will work either. 

 

And really, how does that make sense, anyway? Is it less important to find the right freelancer for a small job than a large one? Is the response rate from freelancers higher on invitations to small jobs? Are we ignoring the fact that clients often start with a small job that turns into a long-term relationship, and making it harder for them to find the right freelancer is detrimental to what Upwork describes as its goal?

Echoing the thoughts of many - charging different amount  of connects to bid on jobs won't work. For all the reasons mentioned plus some.  Charge a flat 2 connects per bid and be done with it.  

 

As far as playing a similar game with the number of invites a buyer can issue - the same holds true.

6 is much better than 3 but 10 is more reasonable from a buyer's POV.  The number of invites any client can issue for any job needs to be standard - across the  board.

 

Just as an aside:  Implementing both of the above leaves a  LOT LESS room for screw-ups.

 

 

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