Dec 15, 2020 06:14:27 AM by Saifali A
Hi there,
One of my client has hired me on hourly contract basis. He is asking me for refund after 2-3 months of payment done. He is threatening me to refund the payment or else he will file a legal action. I am not sure what should i do in this situation. If anyone can help me with this would be great.
Thanks
Dec 15, 2020 06:23:55 AM Edited Dec 15, 2020 06:27:19 AM by Preston H
Do not issue a refund.
You live in India. The client does not.
He is not going to take legal action.
Tell the client that he may discuss the matter in the Community Forum and you will follow the counsel provided there.
Do not argue with the client. Do not negotiate with the client. Inform the client that if he wants to discuss a refund or anything of the sort, then he must explain his reasons in the Community Forum. That is the only option you are providing him.
Dec 15, 2020 07:53:53 AM Edited Dec 15, 2020 07:57:38 AM by Petra R
Saifali A wrote:One of my client has hired me on hourly contract basis. He is asking me for refund after 2-3 months of payment done. He is threatening me to refund the payment or else he will file a legal action
I don't see an ongoing contract on your profile? From when is the contract?
As far as "the legal action" is concerned, is the client in the same country as you are?
Preston H wrote:Tell the client that he may discuss the matter in the Community Forum and you will follow the counsel provided there.
Inappropriate suggestion. This is not the place for a kangaroo court.
It's a bit like putting two spiders in a jam jar and I would hazard a guess the thred would be shut down in no time at all.
Dec 15, 2020 08:53:08 AM Edited Dec 15, 2020 08:57:04 AM by Preston H
Petra: I don't know that that this is an inappropriate suggestion. I don't think this method of resolving these matters has really been tried and tested.
Imagine this as a new philosophy for Upwork generally:
If a client is unwilling to come to the Community Forum and explain why they should receive a refund, then the client should not receive a refund.
No rules would need to be changed with regards to clients disputing hourly work from the previous week - within the 5-day review period.
But when this time period has passed, a client's recourse would be the Community Forum.
If the Forum participants heard the client's side and decided that the client should indeed receive a refund, then the freelancer would be expected to issue a refund.
Obviously Upwork is NOT officially promoting this idea right now.
So think of this as a thought experiment.
I contend that if this was a generally-adopted philosphy, the outcome would be positive. We would see a reduction in baseless, inapproprite refund requests, and we would see a more fair and equitable platform.
And although this is NOT a "generally adopted philosophy" for Upwork as a whole and is just a "thought experiment" that I am proposing, I am serious in my advice to the original poster that she should not issue a refund, but she should offer discussion in the Community Forum as the only remaining place for the client to make his case.
Dec 15, 2020 09:01:38 AM by Petra R
Preston H wrote:Petra: I don't know that that this is an inappropriate suggestion. I don't think this method of resolving these matters has really been tried and tested.
It's happened a few times, went badly downhill very very fast and removed.
Preston H wrote:If a client is unwilling to come to the Community Forum and explain why they should receive a refund, then the client should not receive a refund.
You really think clients should have to justify themselves in a public forum? That's nuts.
Preston H wrote:So think of this as a thought experiment.
No, you thought of it as entertainment, a bit like the Circus in ancient Rome, sending client and freelancer into the arena for the entertainment of the screaming crowds.
Dec 15, 2020 09:08:27 AM Edited Dec 15, 2020 09:09:32 AM by Preston H
re: "No, you thought of it as entertainment, a bit like the Circus in ancient Rome, sending client and freelancer into the arena for the entertainment of the screaming crowds."
LOL.
Yeah.... That's true.
But it WOULD cut down on refund requests if this was the only option.
Dec 15, 2020 09:13:38 AM Edited Dec 15, 2020 09:15:24 AM by Preston H
Saifali:
The time for a client to dispute a freelancer's hourly work is within five days after the work week ends.
You can read more about this here:
https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211062158-Dispute-an-Agency-or-Freelancer-s-Hours
Feel free to send this link to the client as a response to anything he says about refunds or legal action. There is nothing he can do. Upwork is NOT on his side with this.
Upwork expects clients who hire freelancers to pay those freelancers for their time. This is not a complicated concept.
If ANY CLIENT wants to come to the Community Forum and explain why they think they should receive a refund, I will hear them out and give them a fair assessment of their situation.
Dec 15, 2020 10:16:45 AM by Petra R
Preston H wrote:Saifali:
The time for a client to dispute a freelancer's hourly work is within five days after the work week ends.
or 30 days after payment at Upwork's discretion
Preston H wrote:If ANY CLIENT wants to come to the Community Forum and explain why they think they should receive a refund, I will hear them out and give them a fair assessment of their situation.
Been hired as mediator now?
Mar 3, 2021 02:17:30 AM Edited Mar 3, 2021 02:18:27 AM by Thomas S
Dec 15, 2020 09:16:38 AM by Bojan S
Hi Saifali,
I'm sorry to hear about your experience with your client. We have escalated this case and your concern to our team and one of our team members already reached out to you. You should also be able to access the ticket directly here.
If you have any additional questions or concerns, feel free to follow up on your existing ticket and our agent will be more than happy to advise you accordingly.
Thank you!
Mar 1, 2021 11:15:48 AM by Artyom S
Good day, Bojan. I've recently had a problematic client, who took offense and closed the contract out of a sudden and then started using profanity in the chat (message already reported).
I think she might have left me a negative review (hidden) even though no work was done under this contract whatsoever - she simply couldn't help with providing me with the needed information.
I want to make sure that wouldn't be counted towards my JSS, as I think she broke all norms and boundaries and it shouldn't affect my ability to find new contracts
Would love to hear back from you ASAP
Mar 1, 2021 01:37:07 PM by Andrea G
Hi Artyom,
I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience with a client, I understand this is a frustrating situation for you. To avoid this, we usually suggest you have enough information to start working on the project before accepting the contract.
In cases of contracts without earnings, if your client leaves feedback, it will be considered in your score. Please know that we exclude clients whose freelancers report a history of unreasonable feedback so their scores won't count against you. I also see you are a Top Rated freelancer, so you can occasionally request to remove client feedback.
Thanks!
Mar 3, 2021 02:05:07 AM by Artyom S
Thank you, and yes - I know about everything you said, but it's rather unrealistic to have everything gathered before the contract starts - it's a common practice when working in sprints to add stuff on the go, so I can't really follow your advice in this case.
Now about the feedback - this is what I'm worried about. The client, who didn't provide me with enough information (you can see the chat - it's clear from our communication) and then closing the contract and blindly accusing me of non-competence and inability to work - me, a Top Rated Plus developer with 9 years of experience. I know it's not always the case, and I've been to the situations when I had to cancel contracts from my side due to inability to proceed with them, but this one is not one - I was waiting for details, I was polite and proactive.
And then I was accused in "going ....." and inability to work. I foresee it can damage my reputation, my JSS, which is a direct reflection of the customer satisfaction, and I didn't even earn anything from it.
I would want to raise a dispute and want my reputation to be protected by Upwork's TOS and Policies.
If you can assist in creating a dispute or opening a ticket - I would appreciate it.
Thank you in advance, and looking forward to hearing from you
Artyom
Jul 18, 2022 09:22:34 PM by Jinklare Eunise J
Good Day Bojan,
I need help. I am new to Upwork and I have a 2nd client who's threatening me and calling me names. I did the job (hourly) but for 8 hrs only because his account suddenly got suspended the day after the contract started. And after two weeks I received my payment (5 days ago), but now he issued/requested a refund, and worst is it is much higher than the amount I received.
Can I refuse the refund? He told me he can make legal action for not sending him the money and will come here to our country (Philippines) to find me and meet in court.
I am new to Upwork so I don't know where to ask for help but I replied to an Upwork email on the 2nd of July with the details requesting for assistance from a threatening client.
I am also worried that he left me a bad review since he ended the contract today and it's still hidden since I haven't given him feedback yet. Please help.
Would love to hear back from you ASAP.
Many thanks,
Jinklare J.
Jul 18, 2022 09:34:40 PM Edited Jul 18, 2022 09:39:15 PM by Preston H
re: "I have a 2nd client who's threatening me and calling me names."
Block him.
Don't communicate with him.
He gets a cheap thrill out of threatening you. No matter how you respond, he likes it.
The worst thing you can do to him is completely ignore him.
re: "I did the job (hourly) but for 8 hrs only because his account suddenly got suspended the day after the contract started."
If his account got suspended, it's because he is up to no good. Upwork doesn't suspend a client's account unless there is a good reason.
re: "but now he issued/requested a refund, and worst is it is much higher than the amount I received."
He is simply a bully and a scammer.
re: "Can I refuse the refund?"
Yes.
re: "He told me he can make legal action for not sending him the money and will come here to our country (Philippines) to find me and meet in court."
He is not going to do any of that. He is simply a bully.
He likes to steal money from people. But even more, he likes to frighten and harras people and see their reaction.
re: "I am also worried that he left me a bad review since he ended the contract today and it's still hidden since I haven't given him feedback yet. Please help."
If you want to see what feedback he left you, then enter your feedback for him. Then you will be able to see what feedback he left you.
And keep this in mind:
Because he has ALREADY LEFT FEEDBACK, he can't threaten you with bad feedback. He had ONE CHANCE to leave feedback and he has done so already. So that ship has sailed.
Also remember: If you issue a full refund, then his feedback can't appear on your profile page. But issuing a full refund will NOT CHANGE the impact of his private feedback on your JSS.
Dec 16, 2022 02:12:15 PM by Mubashir H
I am having a client threatening me to file a law suit and a fellow developer who resides in USA. Client is also from USA
Dec 16, 2022 04:02:26 PM by Arjay M
Hi Mubashir,
I'm sorry to learn about this unpleasant and disappointing experience you had with a client. I have shared your report with the appropriate team for review. One of the members will be in touch to further advise or assist you if necessary. Feel free to communicate with the team if you have additional questions or concerns.
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