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Client Won't End Contract

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
21 of 56

I work hard to please clients with the work that I do, and I also work hard to minimize stale contracts... Open contracts which have no work being done on them.

 

A lot of the posters in this thread are philosophers. They talk about how things should be, and about what is fair. I guess I am more of a mercenary. I study how the system works and use my knowledge of the system to maintain a high Job Success Score.

 

I am not a better freelancer or a better person than the philosophers. But I have a higher Job Success Score than the freelancers who close too many jobs without receiving feedback or who maintain too many moribund contracts.

Community Leader
Gerald H Member Since: Jun 16, 2016
22 of 56

Or to say it in short: How is bothering clients with non work related stuff like closing contracts a better customer service than NOT bothering them with non work related stuff?

 

And if bothering clients with non work related stuff is NOT the best customer service, how come that people with a habit of doing so get better JSSes than those refusing bothering their clients with silly Upwork rules without any relation to the job that the client wanted to get done? 

 

I seriously think something is wrong here. It should be called "SCBS" for "Selfish Client Bothering Score"

 

ETA: renaming the JSS to SCBS would end the confusion on the clients' side who nearly all believe that the JSS has a relation to the service that they will get from the respective freelancer, when in fact it is at least partly (concerning the bothering for closing inactive contracts, not closing contracts without payment etc) just exactly the opposite.  

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
23 of 56

@Gerald H wrote:

Or to say it in short: How is bothering clients with non work related stuff like closing contracts a better customer service than NOT bothering them with non work related stuff?

 

And if bothering clients with non work related stuff is NOT the best customer service, how come that people with a habit of doing so get better JSSes than those refusing bothering their clients with silly Upwork rules without any relation to the job that the client wanted to get done? 

 

I seriously think something is wrong here. It should be called "SCBS" for "Selfish Client Bothering Score"


 How utterly ridiculous.


Who suggested "bothering clients?"  Obviously "bothering clients" is unlikely to result in a great outcome.

 

The trick is to manage contracts and clients in such a way that there is absolutely no NEED to "bother" your clients.

 

If you have to "bother" them you need to work on the way you manage your contracts.

 

I can swear blind that I have never ONCE "bothered" a client to end a contract, EVER.

Community Leader
Gerald H Member Since: Jun 16, 2016
24 of 56

@Petra R wrote:

@Gerald H wrote:

Or to say it in short: How is bothering clients with non work related stuff like closing contracts a better customer service than NOT bothering them with non work related stuff?

 

And if bothering clients with non work related stuff is NOT the best customer service, how come that people with a habit of doing so get better JSSes than those refusing bothering their clients with silly Upwork rules without any relation to the job that the client wanted to get done? 

 

I seriously think something is wrong here. It should be called "SCBS" for "Selfish Client Bothering Score"


 How utterly ridiculous.


Who suggested "bothering clients?"  Obviously "bothering clients" is unlikely to result in a great outcome.

 

The trick is to manage contracts and clients in such a way that there is absolutely no NEED to "bother" your clients.

 

If you have to "bother" them you need to work on the way you manage your contracts.

 

I can swear blind that I have never ONCE "bothered" a client to end a contract, EVER.


Hahaha! How completely rediculous!

What has a client to do with closing contracts? How do you call stealing his precious time to do Upwork administrative tasks like these for you where he has NO ADDED VALUE for himself in doing so? This IS bothering.  And it IS ridiculous. You probably never felt stupid, explaining WHY your client should close the contract because of an Upwork rule that nobody understands and which is none of his business but only affects YOUR JSS. Your answer shows how service minded you really are and what the JSS is really worth and how it is misleading.   

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
25 of 56

@Gerald H wrote:

 

Hahaha! How completely rediculous!

1)  You probably never felt stupid, explaining WHY your client should close the contract because of an Upwork rule that nobody understands and which is none of his business but only affects YOUR JSS.

 

2) Your answer shows how service minded you really are and what the JSS is really worth and how it is misleading.   


 1) No, I have never felt stupid explaining that because I never HAVE explained it. Why would I beg or explain?

 

2) It shows how "service minded" I am? How so? The way to judge how "service minded" I am is to take a look at what my clients say about my service.....

 

Apart from that, a few dormant contracts, or a few contracts closed without feedback, do NOT hurt your JSS. You can see the proof for that on Olivier's profile. He has a huge number of dormant and old contracts and a 10% JSS.


People LOVE using dead or "no feedback" contracts as an excuse for low JSS - when the real reasons are often / usually elsewhere.

Community Leader
Gerald H Member Since: Jun 16, 2016
26 of 56

@Petra R wrote:

@Gerald H wrote:

 

Hahaha! How completely rediculous!

1)  You probably never felt stupid, explaining WHY your client should close the contract because of an Upwork rule that nobody understands and which is none of his business but only affects YOUR JSS.

 

2) Your answer shows how service minded you really are and what the JSS is really worth and how it is misleading.   


 1) No, I have never felt stupid explaining that because I never HAVE explained it. Why would I beg or explain?

 

2) It shows how "service minded" I am? How so?


 2) It is very easy. Not to waste the client's time to do your administrative stuff - like closing contracts - for you would be the better service for the client. Doing the job for your client and taking care of the administrative Upwork stuff yourself would be the best for the client because it would spare his precious time. 
Only that the requirement to maintain a high JSS doesn't allow us to be this service-minded. We have to make him work. If with explanation or without, if you call it bothering or not is all beneath the point. Fact is: "Managing a contract" in your sense means making the client waste his time for things, you could easily do yourself and which have no value for him but only for you. 
This could be avoided by changing the rules of calculating the JSS concerning these points. You are obviously opposing these changes which only leaves me with the explanation that you would like the system to go on as it is which is wasting the clients' time which is not service-minded in my view. 

Ace Contributor
Patricia V Member Since: Aug 3, 2016
27 of 56

Ok, so how long does a contract have to be innactive before it impacts your JSS?

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
28 of 56

@Patricia V wrote:

Ok, so how long does a contract have to be innactive before it impacts your JSS?


 They won't tell us exactly, but it looks like "quite a while" and also like it doesn't necessarily affect you at all when there there are only a few.

 

Look at Olivier's profile - he has 30 jobs in progress of which surely many have been inactive for quite a while, and he has a JSS of 100%.

 

It is the same with contracts that close without feedback. They ONLY affect you if there is a significant percentage of them.

 

This makes freelancers with few jobs more vulnerable to fluctuations, but once you have a solid base you do have quite a safety net.

Ace Contributor
Tilly P Member Since: Sep 3, 2015
29 of 56

Wow. How lucky for those of you that don't have to bother clients. I guess you've never had (the very very common) client who literally dissapears into thin air. The client who doesn't respond to tasks when you are actively working on his/her project. The client who is just "too busy" to deal with it but expects you to drop everything and work when he/she finally decides to send an email. Clients like this are all over Upwork and it's one of the most infuriating things (JSS is a close second!) about working on Upwork.

 

Make sure you close out those contracts immediately the SECOND you believe they will become non-responsive. It's an easy to recognize pattern that emerges. I've been on Upwork since it was oDesk and it wil always be plauged with non-responsive clients. I have been billing another client 10 minutes a month to keep things active. It's so much more work on my part and a total waste of my time. Inactive contracts WILL hurt your JSS-- I went from 100% to 77% because of this! It's outragious that we are held responsible for it but that's just the way it is.

Community Guru
Jess C Member Since: Feb 18, 2015
30 of 56

@Tilly P wrote:

Wow. How lucky for those of you that don't have to bother clients. I guess you've never had (the very very common) client who literally dissapears into thin air. The client who doesn't respond to tasks when you are actively working on his/her project. The client who is just "too busy" to deal with it but expects you to drop everything and work when he/she finally decides to send an email. Clients like this are all over Upwork and it's one of the most infuriating things (JSS is a close second!) about working on Upwork.

 

Make sure you close out those contracts immediately the SECOND you believe they will become non-responsive. It's an easy to recognize pattern that emerges. I've been on Upwork since it was oDesk and it wil always be plauged with non-responsive clients. I have been billing another client 10 minutes a month to keep things active. It's so much more work on my part and a total waste of my time. Inactive contracts WILL hurt your JSS-- I went from 100% to 77% because of this! It's outragious that we are held responsible for it but that's just the way it is.


Clients like this are part of freelancing in general, certainly not just on Upwork. Goes with the territory.

 

It takes about 90 days for inactive contracts to ding JSS, speaking from experience. I time it so that I close them periodically, in the same JSS calculation period as other contracts with feedback. I used to bill 10 minutes per month when contracts were suspended automatically for no payment within 30 days and I knew there was more work coming, but Upwork quietly changed that policy awhile back and it's no longer necessary.

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