Mar 7, 2019 11:13:44 AM by Jennifer G
Hello,
I just had a client abruptly cancel a contract. Everything seemed OK, fixed price contract with escrow funding. After delivering 4 drafts (I told him 2-3), he said he liked the first but to make a few changes...so I did 2 more drafts for a total of 6 designs...and I get notified this morning that he cancelled the contract & is asking for an escrow refund.
I denied the refund...am I right, or am I wrong?
Thanks Everyone 🙂
Solved! Go to Solution.
Mar 7, 2019 11:21:21 AM by John K
Jennifer, you're correct to dispute the refund. Good luck with mediation.
Mar 7, 2019 11:21:21 AM by John K
Jennifer, you're correct to dispute the refund. Good luck with mediation.
Mar 7, 2019 11:28:47 AM by Scott B
Jennifer G wrote:Hello,
I just had a client abruptly cancel a contract. Everything seemed OK, fixed price contract with escrow funding. After delivering 4 drafts (I told him 2-3), he said he liked the first but to make a few changes...so I did 2 more drafts for a total of 6 designs...and I get notified this morning that he cancelled the contract & is asking for an escrow refund.
I denied the refund...am I right, or am I wrong?
Thanks Everyone 🙂
Right or wrong is going to be subjective as we don't know all of the details. From your perspective what matters is whether you feel you met the requirements of the contract. If you do, then it's your right to dispute the refund request.
Mar 7, 2019 12:02:47 PM by Preston H
Jennifer:
You were correct to deny the refund request.
To be clear:
A client MAY cancel a contract AT ANY TIME and there is nothing wrong with that.
A client may cancel/close an hourly contract at any time.
A client may cancel/close a fixed-price contract at any time.
Either is fine.
But the professional/ethical way for a client to close a fixed-price contract is to:
- release all escrow funds to the freelancer
- close the contract
If a client does this, then the client does NOT need to get permission from anybody or explain herself to anybody.
If a client tries to close a fixed-price contract on which a freelancer has already started to do work, or has completed work, then the client must NOT click any buttons to request a refund. If she does so, then it means that she is a bad client and a bad person. She is essentially trying to steal the freelancer's work.
If the work is only partially completed, then it is ACCEPTABLE for the client to message the freelancer and ASK if she can stop working on the project and issue a partial refund. Note that this is "acceptable" (not recommended). It is up to the freelancer to decide what to do. It is up to the freelancer to decide how much of a refund to grant to the client. Most freelancers will be VERY WILLING to work with a client. If the task is only 50% completed, most freelancers will be happy to issue a 50% refund.
But freelancers are not obligated to do so. If the freelancer decides to not issue a refund, the client needs to accept the freelancer's decision.
All of this is done without needing to contact Upwork customer support or start any kind of dispute or arbitration process.
Mar 7, 2019 12:20:31 PM by Sanja D
that's a new trend, especially with the logo design projects/clients.
after 3-4 design suggestions, they decide to cancel the project and ask for a refund. in most cases the amount is to low to go arbitration (usually the whole project is around $250-300). I've had a few of those, and, in one case, I even had to contact a hosting company with copyright claim, because the client decided to use the logo he was not happy with...or simply didn't want to pay for it
Mar 7, 2019 03:50:39 PM by Scott B
Sanja D wrote:that's a new trend, especially with the logo design projects/clients.
after 3-4 design suggestions, they decide to cancel the project and ask for a refund. in most cases the amount is to low to go arbitration (usually the whole project is around $250-300). I've had a few of those, and, in one case, I even had to contact a hosting company with copyright claim, because the client decided to use the logo he was not happy with...or simply didn't want to pay for it
This is a great real-world example of why no one should give into a refund request unless they feel they did not live up to the parameters of the job. Too many otherwise do it because they are deathly afraid of the JSS even though a refund certainly won't help it.
Mar 7, 2019 04:16:02 PM by Sanja D
True...I just don't think $250 project is worth almost $300 arbitration fee
Don't forget that clients also have a chargeback option - and, judging by recent freelancer posts - they're using it more and more...
Clients often use JSS and feedback as a method to blackmail freelancers - especially new ones. when that doesn't work - they initiate a chargeback. Of course - there more great clients out there - but when they're bad - they're really bad...I don't work for JSS - but the fact is that ever since my JSS dropped below 90% (and that was almost a year ago) I stopped getting offers on upwork and had only 1-2 small projects here. So - there are clients who found a way to abuse the system...
Mar 8, 2019 02:07:00 AM by Jennifer G
Oh, geez. I guess I've been luckily and really only dealt with a few bad clients, and its always a different scenario. I suppose he could take my draft logos & try to get someone to do the same thing for much less, even through it was only $60!
Mar 8, 2019 01:41:05 AM by Jennifer G
"All of this is done without needing to contact Upwork customer support or start any kind of dispute or arbitration process."
How do I do that? I initiated a dispute, as I thought that was the next step after denying an escrow refund.
Mar 8, 2019 02:59:56 AM by Preston H
Jennifer: I was talking about how professional, ethical, decent clients behave.
I wasn't necessarily talking about YOUR situation.
The client YOU are working for in this situation is not a good person. She should NOT have asked for a refund.
Jul 23, 2020 01:21:14 AM by Ramazan V
I read your comments here Preston. Here is my story. A client sent me a contract . I worked on it 2 days and showed a demo. We discussed improvements etc. Agrreed meeting daily. He didn't come to meetings. I communicated via upwork messaging. And there had been no apology at all about not attending meetings. I kept working 5 days. And He cancelled the contract without seeing any progress at all.
We went to mediation process . I explained all this and sent proof of work. I can get daily timestamped version changes from my workspace. I sent them mediator. This is were Upwokr mediation fails. They don't try to understand what is happening but rather trying to close the case which I refused.
I love Upwork platform. It is only benefical to all of us if we keep it clean from bad people
Jul 23, 2020 01:58:34 AM by Petra R
Ramazan V wrote:
We went to mediation process . I explained all this and sent proof of work. I can get daily timestamped version changes from my workspace. I sent them mediator. This is were Upwokr mediation fails. They don't try to understand what is happening but rather trying to close the case which I refused.
Then you have the option to pay $ 291 and go to arbitration.
The mediator can't make a decision over the escrow funds.
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