Client asking for refund After contract ended

[dhavaljani1990]

Hello guys, I need your help.

I recently completed a project. Client provided good feedback, and even bonus. Now after a week, out of the blue, client is unsatisfied with my work and wants the refund. I rejected.

The case went into mediation. The whole project had a single milestone of $200. Client provided bonus of $125. Now client is asking 60% of the money to be refunded. I offered him $50. He rejected, and now wants to go into arbitration. I want to know what my options are. How will arbitration work when there is no money in escrow? Will my account be suspended if I don't move into arbitration? I am a top rated here, and have never been into disputes and this whole thing is freaking me out.

Please suggest

[p_serechenko · Accepted solution]

Hello Dhaval J,

What is the clients excuse about asking a refund from you?

Also, before anything else, I would suggest you to make screenshots from your conversation with client, his feedback, every clue that connects you with this project and client. This is just for your backup in case it gets more serious.

Client must have some reason to explain this, otherwise I don't see the logic in his action, specially if you say, he have gave you a good review and bonus in the end.

[prestonhunter]

Dhaval:

I am very sorry that you are facing this situation.

What this client is doing is unprofessional, unethical, and immoral.

This contract is closed. The work is done.

I think that the client is refusing to even recognize you as a human being. He simply sees a button he can push to request a refund and thinks to himself "Hmm... Free money."

There is no excuse for this kind of behavior from a client. I wish Upwork would not allow this kind of thing.

[michael_skaggs]

Not to mention the client doesn't have a leg to stand on. It's pretty clearly stated that either letting the review period lapse or manually releasing the milestone indicates acceptance of the work submitted. Paying a bonus on top of that only further solidifies that position. After all, if they didn't like the work, why did they pay extra?

If the client decides to take it to arbitration, I don't think they'll like the outcome. Then they'll be out even more money when they have to pay the arbitration fees, which in this case are more than they're trying to recover ($875 / 3 = $291.67).

But before then, Upwork's mediation team will likely tell the client they're up a creek and to just let it go.

[hardorff]

"when they have to pay the arbitration fees for both sides."

- The client will only pay their fee and the freelancer and Upwork will pay their fees.

No matter who wins in the arbitration stage, the fees will be lost, for everyone included.

[hardorff]

"when they have to pay the arbitration fees for both sides."

- The client will only pay their fee and the freelancer and Upwork will pay their fees.

No matter who wins in the arbitration stage, the fees will be lost, for everyone included.

[prestonhunter]

Michael:

Unfortunately, I don't think that the losing party pays the arbitration fee for both sides.

My understanding is that if the client does decide to pay to go to arbitration, and the freelancer doesn't pay, then the client automatically wins. If the freelancer ALSO pays, then both sides permanently lose the arbitration fee.

So the freelancer could "win" the arbitration - in the sense that arbitration decides that no money needs to be refunded. But the freelancer has still lost the $291 he had to pay in order to go to arbitration.

[michael_skaggs]

I realized that after Dimitri pointed it out. I've edited my reply accordingly.

Never post when insomnia has taken hold, I guess.

[dhavaljani1990]

thanks. Yes, actually. 

[wlyonsatl]

Someone should start a GoFundMe page to help low income freelancers cover the cost of arbitration.

Of course, it would be a bit difficult to administer, but based on so many similar posts here I'd expect a fair few unscrupulous clients would quickly back down from contesting payments they previously OK's to their freelancers once those freelancers said they were ready and able to go to arbitration.

At any rate, any feedback left by a client who loses either mediation or arbitration should be permanently omitted from the calculation of the freelancer's Job Success Score. And the client should be told that has been done. If the client shows a pattern of continued obvious abuse of the system, they should be booted off Upwork. (Or maybe they already are? Petra, do you know?)

[colettelewis]

---

Dhaval J wrote:

Hello guys, I need your help.

I recently completed a project. Client provided good feedback, and even bonus. Now after a week, out of the blue, client is unsatisfied with my work and wants the refund. I rejected.

The case went into mediation. The whole project had a single milestone of $200. Client provided bonus of $125. Now client is asking 60% of the money to be refunded. I offered him $50. He rejected, and now wants to go into arbitration. I want to know what my options are. How will arbitration work when there is no money in escrow? Will my account be suspended if I don't move into arbitration? I am a top rated here, and have never been into disputes and this whole thing is freaking me out.

Please suggest

---

__________________________________

Dhaval,

Have you actually had any communication from Customer Support about the arbitration, or is the client threatening you? If CS has not contacted you telling you that the client is taking it to arbitration, then sit tight and do not communicate any further with this  client.  If CS has contacted you then follow everything they tell you to do to the letter. Unfortunately if the client does instigate this, you  will have to go along with it.  But I am sure that arbitration will go in your favour. 

I think this situation stinks and I do not think Upwork should allow this sort of behaviour from its so-called clients. 

[mostafizur006]

Hello Dhaval,
I am on a same situation. Client is asking money back on an ended contract. They gave me good review. Can you give me an idea what happened to your case ultimately ? 

It will be a great understanding for me.

[dhavaljani1990]

Nothing, I have refunded because Upwork gives more priority to the client!

[mostafizur006]

Thanks for your prompt response. 

Did you go for mediation?
or you simply avoid any hassle / risk ?

Just curious to know how things ended . 

[dhavaljani1990]

No, don't go for arbitration otherwise you need to pay more money, Yes if there are more money then you can go but if there is 200/300 Dollars then leave it..

Then i dealt with the client to pay half money and half money she taken away, that's it.

[petra_r]

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Dhaval J wrote:

No, don't go for mediation otherwise you need to pay more money,

---

Nonsense. Mediation costs absolutely nothing at all.

[dhavaljani1990]

OK Ask this senseful girl, Will she help you to get back your money? 

[m_sharman]

---

Dhaval J wrote:

OK Ask this senseful girl, Will she help you to get back your money? 

---

Petra was making the distinction between mediation (step 1 - no extra cost) and arbitration (step 2, 291 per partcipant). I see you edited your orginal post to accurately reflect what you were saying, but Petra's response was prior to your edit.

[purplepony]

---

Miriam H wrote:

---

Dhaval J wrote:

OK Ask this senseful girl, Will she help you to get back your money? 

---

Petra was making the distinction between mediation (step 1 - no extra cost) and arbitration (step 2, 291 per partcipant). I see you edited your orginal post to accurately reflect what you were saying, but Petra's response was prior to your edit.

___________________________________________________________________________

Miriam, excellent; I'd give you 100 kudos for this if I could.

---

[prestonhunter]

re: "Client is asking money back on an ended contract. They gave me good review."

There are clients who see a "request refund" button and simply click it, thinking "Maybe I can get some free money."

Their request has nothing to do with whether or not the freelancer completed the task, the quality or the work, or anything else. They simply don't think of the freelancer as a real person, and they don't care about what kind of repercussions their "request" might have.

This is disgusting behavior on the part of these clients.

These client "refund requests" have happened too often, and may lead to more and more users to consider ALL refund requests to be improper.

[sreckom]

Wow I visit forum like every 2-3 weeks and there are more and more cases lie this. So if you have job below 150 dolars you can easily end up contract and than just ask for refund, and freelancer will have be in situation to refund cause he is losing anyway .. .and you can get work done, and get money back ?!?! Is this real??? Upwork why are you allowing this? This is theft!

[eshiverdecker]

I'm a freelancer and I've only been working on the platform for a few months. I was not aware of this issue, and fortunately have not (yet) faced it myself. But quite frankly, this is appalling.

You accept a job, you do the work, client accepts work, client gives good feedback etc., and then they can just bully you into giving them a refund for work you've completed to their satisfaction, with no justification? And no repercussions for the client?

Upwork simply should not allow this. Once a job is completed and paid, it should be done. End of story. If this happens to many more freelancers (and it will once more shady clients realize they can get away with it), that's the end of the platform.

Unfortunately, in my pre-Upwork experience, I found that there are too many clients who see the word "freelancer" and stop reading at "free." I thought platforms like this had finally put an end to that. I've been fortunate with my clients in my few months here, but I see I'll have to be much more cautious in future when taking on new clients.

[wlyonsatl]

I expect an effect of this situation will be that the best quality freelancers who focus on low value projects (and therefore can't afford to pay $291 to take such clients to arbitration) will abandon that niche by either leaving Upwork or charging more for their services (so they can better justify paying $291 for arbitration to enforce payment for their services).

[prestonhunter]

Elizabeth: I agree with your assessment.

The operative word is "bully."

That is all this is. Bullying.

And you are right: Upwork shouldn't allow it.

If there were rarely problems, I would not say any changes need to be made. But there is just too much of this.

For the time being... decent people should follow these practices:

- if you are a freelancer and you can't complete the fixed-price task you were contracted for, then issue a refund for the portion unfinished and apologize to the client and let them continue with someone else.

- if you are a client, then if you don't want to continue working with a freelancer, then close the contract and work with other people. Don't manage your project through "refunds." That is not how a project actually gets finished.

[efitz1]

This is happening to me now and in mediation. have been asked to be responsive or my account will be limited. have provided all info about project but client just wants discount for no reason. likes my work but too expensive. Only after the work was submitted and he had my work in his possession. i he raised this. have been paid but am being pressured into refund despite providing evidence of the client accepting my work. Not giving refund, id rather poke myself in the eye. I have already suffered bad feedback and countless hours defending myself, losing clients or new work it has hit hard and i am angry. he is harrassing me via this process. what can i do or say to end mediation quickly without providing refund. Im ready to leave the platform - had support from upwork and now I dont. Im still trying to come to terms with the fact that this is not a joke. They are actually serious.  

[colettelewis]

Elise, 

Stand your ground. You did the work and you were paid.  However, your only route now is to say you want to take it to arbitration. This is pricey for all parties and quite a drawn-out process, but if the client says the only reason he wants a refund is because you are too expensive, this is something he should have seen at the start. I think he wants your work and doesn't want to pay.  My feeling is if you go to arbitration, the client will back down. 

You can also try one more thing, you can inform the client that if you refund you retain full rights to your work and that if you see it on the internet you will get Google to take it down, and that you will be reselling or using it as a portfolio piece.