Client asks to pay through Paypal because of Upwork fault

[thinkfreelance]

Hi everyone, this is  a quick resume of the issue:

The job is a fixed price project. I sent the first design to the client 3 weeks ago. and the client liked it, but asked me to refine the illustration in order to achieve the best result.  I made 2 extra  variations of the illustration, but he disappeared for 2 weeks and after I sent him multiple messages, in order to receive feedback, he sent me the following message "“Upwork doesn't let me release funds. Can I pay you by PayPal?” (see screenshot attached).

First of all, the $100 funds were sent by the client in Escrow deposit  and the milestone is active.  I don’t understand why the client is reporting an Upwork fault. It’s making me feel suspicious because I know that getting paid through PayPal is a violation of the TOC and I don’t want to have any problem, but I also want to be paid.

In 2 years working on Upwork I never had a client reporting an Upwork fault in releasing funds.  My guts are telling me that this client just doesn’t want to pay the work I have done, even though he said that the design is excellent. The design work is also in progress and I need to know which one of the 3 designs he wants in order to prepare the files for print production, and I finally submit the work in order to get paid. Once the funds are deposited in escrow is not possible for the client to get refunded, is that correct?

I would appreciate a suggestions from the Upwork Veterans and the moderators, in order to the steps i should follow to finish my job, deliver and get paid. 

Thanks

Riccardo

Th-Ink Studio

[prestonhunter]

re: "Client asks to pay through Paypal because of Upwork fault..."

So you mean the client is trying to get your Upwork account permanently terminated, so that you can no longer use Upwork again?

While simultaneously tricking you into working for free, handing over the work, and then disappearing without ACTUALLY paying you through PayPal?

That doesn't sound very nice.

[prestonhunter]

re: "Once the funds are deposited in escrow is not possible for the client to get refunded, is that correct?"

That is not correct.

It IS possible to get the escrow money refunded.

The easiest way to get the money refunded is to submit a refund request that goes to you (the freelancer), and then you agree to it.

It is ALSO possible for the client to close the contract while asking for the escrow money to be refunded, and then if you (the freelancer) do NOT agree to a refund... then the matter would move to a dispute. Which theoretically could also end up in arbitration. Either of those (dispute/arbitration) could result in the client getting escrow money refunded to them.

[petra_r]

if the client "can not release escrow" simply wait 14 days from when you pressed the "submit work for payment" button and the funds will auto release provided the client does not request changes.

The client can't just get their funds back without either your approval or a dispute.

[thinkfreelance]

Hi Petra, I read here in the community forum 1 post where it was mentioned about the 14 days after submitting the work, but i was missing the option you have just explained regarding the dispute.

You have been very helpfull thank you so much!

Ps: thanks to Preston as well for the useful  answers!

[thinkfreelance]

After reflecting on the issue, i'm thinking if is better to loose $100,  telling to the client to close the contract without receiving any files, or risk to receive a 1 star feedback, that is going to damage heavily my jss, because that's what i think is going to happen.  A scammer that feel confident on playing upwork system and get knocked down by a freelancer, will probably hate it and retaliate against the freelancer. 

Whats your thoughts?

For me it's a heavy loss but if i can avoid a possible 1 star feedback i'll close the contract myself and get on with my job.

Unless the client can still give feedback even after closing the contract without work submission. In that case i won't avoid a bad rating in any case..   

[petra_r · Accepted solution]

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Riccardo M wrote:

After reflecting on the issue, i'm thinking if is better to loose $100,  telling to the client to close the contract without receiving any files, or risk to receive a 1 star feedback, that is going to damage heavily my jss, because that's what i think is going to happen.  A scammer that feel confident on playing upwork system and get knocked down by a freelancer, will probably hate it and retaliate against the freelancer. 

Whats your thoughts?

For me it's a heavy loss but if i can avoid a possible 1 star feedback i'll close the contract myself and get on with my job.

---

A "nothing paid" contract with no or poor private feedback hits your JSS  as badly as one with poor feedback, and why would the client want to give you poor feedback?

The funds are in Escrow, don't let fear be your guide. Explain to the client calmly, politely and firmly that you only work through Upwork because taking money off the website is a violation of Upwork's terms of Service.

Just send the client the file (without the watermark, obviously) and wait out the 14 days.

[thinkfreelance]

Thanks for the clarification. I'll definitely explain that i work only through Upwork, and I agree with you about the importance of keeping the relationship honest and straightforward, respecting the rules. Hopefully, the client will understand that, and If not i'll get on with it. There's is plenty of excellent and honest clients out there to work with.

Thanks for the encouragement, Petra

[thinkfreelance]

Hi all,

I managed to get the design approved by the client and receive the payment. I made sure that the funds were deposited in Escrow prior starting to work on the project.

A big thanks to Petra, and all of you guys for support.

Cheers!

Ricky 

[kat303]

---

Riccardo M wrote:

After reflecting on the issue, i'm thinking if is better to loose $100,  telling to the client to close the contract without receiving any files, or risk to receive a 1 star feedback, that is going to damage heavily my jss, because that's what i think is going to happen.  A scammer that feel confident on playing upwork system and get knocked down by a freelancer, will probably hate it and retaliate against the freelancer. 

Whats your thoughts?

For me it's a heavy loss but if i can avoid a possible 1 star feedback i'll close the contract myself and get on with my job.

Unless the client can still give feedback even after closing the contract without work submission. In that case i won't avoid a bad rating in any case..   

---

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Do you REALLY think it's better to lose $100 just so you don't get a negative review. If you choose to refund, or if you close the contract yourself (which I think? would result in the funds in escrow being refunded) that would mean a job with no money earned. And that will have an affect on your JSS. 

What are my thoughts? with permission I paste this response for another freelancer because what she wrote are my thoughts also

Janean L wrote:

Here is a tough-truth reality:

You ask: "Should i really work for him for free to avoid a bad review if I ended the job?"

The answer is : YES. "Yes... if..."

That is, If you are prepared to allow your freelancing endeavors to be controlled by a perpetual fear of an unpredictable and often dyspeptic client leaving you a bad review, then, by all means, YES, do allow such a client (and the many like-minded clients who will follow) to tyrannize your life. Give in to their unreasonable demands.

You will be miserable. You will be a worm-like supplicant. You will live in constant fear and uncertainty. Your talents will be at the mercy of those who neither appreciate them nor remunerate you properly for their application.

You won't make as much money as you could do if you worked with a better class of clients and if you valued your skills appropriately.

However, if you are ruled by your fear of the possibility -- even of the near-certainty -- of a bad review from a bilious and perhaps vindictive client... Well, then, by all means do the work for free.

ETA:  This is not meant to be a slam to you. It is truly meant as helpful advice -- as a way of looking at this situation that will make you re-think this client and your freelancer/client relationship. Give yourself some power and control!

Don’t let your JSS or the possibility of a negative review dictate what you do. nor let your JSS/feedback be used as a hostage or bargaining piece

If you clicked on the Submit Word/Request Payment button just wait. In 14 days whatever is in escrow will be automatically released to you. (if the client doesn't request revisions.)  Don't click on it again if you've already clicked on it because that will set the 14 day timer back to the beginning. If the client starts to pay the endless revisions game, come back on here and we'll tell you what to do. 

[moonraker]

For some reason that I cannot yet explain --- I sometimes have difficulty approving milestones when paying a freelancer for the first time. Maybe your client is experiencing the same problem I do? 

I deal with it quite easily by asking the freelancer to send me a request for the payment, and approve the milestone that way. Try doing the same. 

While Upwork does not allow for payments to be made outside of Upwork... this client might genuinely just be trying to pay you and doesn't know how. Try sending him a payment request for the milestone and see how that goes. 

*Edit* Just seen that this has been sorted,