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Client disabled manula time

vpuller
Ace Contributor
Vadim P Member Since: Apr 21, 2020
11 of 39

@IvanS @PetraR

What happens, if a client wins a dispute over the manual time? Does he get to keep the money and the work? Otherwise, if he has a code that was written during the disputed time, he may face problems with the code ownership.

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
12 of 39

Vadim P wrote:

@IvanS @PetraR

What happens, if a client wins a dispute over the manual time? Does he get to keep the money and the work? Otherwise, if he has a code that was written during the disputed time, he may face problems with the code ownership.


A client will win any dispute over manual time. Every time. By default.

 

Good question over the work ownership and I am pretty sure that is one can of worms Upwork would rather not open...  When clients hire hourly, they buy time spent working, not a product as such. Which is why clients can never win disputes over properly tracked time, even if the end product ultimately doesn't work at all.

 

I don't know if you can prove what portion of the code was written when, so it would be harder to prove what portion of the code was or was not owned. 

 

Nightmare all round and Upwork would not get in the middle of that. That would then be between the client and you.

jr-translation
Community Guru
Jennifer R Member Since: Sep 15, 2017
13 of 39

Vadim P wrote:

@MartinaP I think not every job can be measured in hours. But the point here is that he unilaterally changed the terms of the contract, without my prior agreement. How do I feel about this?


The point is that the client decided to continue with a different freelancer, THAT is the real cause for your frustration. He now wants you to track your time using the tracker and transfer the work you did and got paid for. You should just do so in a professional manner and even offer to help the other freelancer during the transition. That might encourage the client to refer you to collegues or to come back if the other freelancer should fail. Sure, you could tell the client that your actual rate has increased, but if your proposal said $40 then $40 it is.

vpuller
Ace Contributor
Vadim P Member Since: Apr 21, 2020
14 of 39

@ChristineA, @JenniferR
This conflict obviously has a history: the client and I have disagreed previously, and a few weeks ago I informed him about my desire to cease the collaboration. He however insisted that there was no one who was capable of doing it except me, and I continued - partially out of moral obligation, and partially to avoid escalating the tensions. Now, that he seems to have found a replacement for me, his behavior looks like a provocation. I could swallow pride and provide him with a commented code... but will it save me from a negative review?

Another thing: I will also review him. I wonder to what extent an established client is able to dissimulate a negative review.

jr-translation
Community Guru
Jennifer R Member Since: Sep 15, 2017
15 of 39

Vadim P wrote:

@ChristineA, @JenniferR
This conflict obviously has a history: the client and I have disagreed previously, and a few weeks ago I informed him about my desire to cease the collaboration. He however insisted that there was no one who was capable of doing it except me, and I continued - partially out of moral obligation, and partially to avoid escalating the tensions. Now, that he seems to have found a replacement for me, his behavior looks like a provocation. I could swallow pride and provide him with a commented code... but will it save me from a negative review?

Another thing: I will also review him. I wonder to what extent an established client is able to dissimulate a negative review.


You have to be a professional. You wanted to quit working for this client there you go. I had clients I hated and discussed a lot and got 5*, I had clients that were great but left less. You never really know what happens. The most important thing is the agreement between you to and that you fullfil your part. The client might even be greatful that you continued until a replacement has been found and give you a bonus. If you get paid for the time you use from now on, use the tracker.

 

Clients can not hide the feedback they receive but other clients can see the feedback you left and might consider it when not hiring you.

vpuller
Ace Contributor
Vadim P Member Since: Apr 21, 2020
16 of 39

@JenniferR
Everything you say is correct. But it applies to the client as well - I informed him that I wanted to be out, I didn't abandon him till he found a replacement, and by now I surely would have documented the code, if he didn't choose to escalate the tensions. Don't I have an obligation to the community to expose the abuse?

jr-translation
Community Guru
Jennifer R Member Since: Sep 15, 2017
17 of 39

Vadim P wrote:

@JenniferR
Everything you say is correct. But it applies to the client as well - I informed him that I wanted to be out, I didn't abandon him till he found a replacement, and by now I surely would have documented the code, if he didn't choose to escalate the tensions. Don't I have an obligation to the community to expose the abuse?


It looks like you only disagree to use the tracker for the remaining work. I just don't get your problem. Where is the abuse?

vpuller
Ace Contributor
Vadim P Member Since: Apr 21, 2020
18 of 39

@JenniferR
I suppose it wouldn't be professional to rehash here the details of my conflict with the client. I think however that changing the conditions of work without my agreement, and effectively blackmailing me with a bad review, if I do not comply, is enough to call it "abuse".

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
19 of 39

Vadim P wrote:

@JenniferR
I suppose it wouldn't be professional to rehash here the details of my conflict with the client. I think however that changing the conditions of work without my agreement, and effectively blackmailing me with a bad review, if I do not comply, is enough to call it "abuse".


You never mentioned any "blackmailing you with a bad review" previously. 

The client does not need your agreement to disable manual time. Also be aware that manual time is never protected. You would be well advised to not risk a dispute....

jr-translation
Community Guru
Jennifer R Member Since: Sep 15, 2017
20 of 39

Vadim P wrote:

@JenniferR
I suppose it wouldn't be professional to rehash here the details of my conflict with the client. I think however that changing the conditions of work without my agreement, and effectively blackmailing me with a bad review, if I do not comply, is enough to call it "abuse".


Disallowing manual time is not really changing a contract. It would be however if the client would change the rate. This is a bullet you have to bite.

But this has been the first time that you mention the client blackmailing you. You might want to reread the ToS and maybe report the message.

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