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mehranv
Community Member

Client ended the contract days after it was awarded to me and without providing any instructions

Just a few days ago I was hired for an hourly job. I accepted the offer and coomunicated to the client that I am ready and avaialble to start working immediately and asked him for instructions and details so I can begin immediately. He did not respond. I reached out to him the following day and gave him another reminder to provide details and instructions, didn't hear back from him again. I kept on doing this for three days until I noticed that just today he has ended the contract without communicating a single word with me!!!

 

Will this effect my JSS? I hope not because I am not at fault here. I accepted the offer, communicated early and often and I was willing and availble to work but he didn't porovide me with ANY instructions or materials whatsoever and I didn't bill even a single hour to this job. he just wasted my time and my connects.  I have enclosed a screenshot of what I see in the "All Contracts" section in Upwork where it states that the project was "Cancelled by client".  Moreover, the client left me no feedback. I indicated the reason for contract closure as: "End Contract Reason: Client never provided details of the job". 

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

36 REPLIES 36
joansands
Community Member

Mehran, why did you accept a contract before receiving any instructions or materials?

The role was for a Tableau developer. The client told me that he will provide instructions afterwards. 

Almost all the jobs that I've ever seen on Upwork only have a generic instructions in the job posting and once hired the client provides instructions on exactly what they want done. It is almost impossible to put every detail in the JD unless the job is very straighforward and simple which in this case it is not a simple task and "Tableau Developer" is a job that requires requirements communicated both writted and oral  before the freelancer knows exactly what he needs to do (these hours are sometimes billable hours that the client pays for as well) . This has always been the case. I don't remember a single job that has all the job details included in the job description within the job posting.

 

Moreover, I looked into the clients history and he had hired two other Tableau developers along with me and it appears he ended the contract for all 3 of us at once.  

lysis10
Community Member

Yes, it will affect your JSS.

 

You have 5 days I think to accept an offer. Next time, don't accept until you have something to bill on it. Even if it's just 10 minutes.

mehranv
Community Member

This doesn't make any sense.  The job title was generic and it was for a Tableau developer. The detailed job description for such jobs is usually something that needs to be communicated in person through a video call as it involves visuals and details that can't even be commuicated ina written job posting.

 

All the jobs I have ever applied for on Upwork only have a generic job description and then the client provides more details and materials after the job has been awarded. Moreover, many clients don't give away their data and confidential information to all freelancers that they interview due to confidentiality reasons and they only provide that data to the freelancer(s) they have hired after the freelancer signs a non disclosure agreement so the idea that I should have asked for everything so "...I have something to bill on it..."  is just proposterous.

 

lysis10
Community Member


Mehran V wrote:

This doesn't make any sense.  The job title was generic and it was for a Tableau developer. The detailed job description for such jobs is usually something that needs to be communicated in person through a video call as it involves visuals and details that can't even be commuicated ina written job posting.

 

All the jobs I have ever applied for on Upwork only have a generic job description and then the client provides more details and materials after the job has been awarded. Moreover, many clients don't give away their data and confidential information to all freelancers that they interview due to confidentiality reasons and they only provide that data to the freelancer(s) they have hired after the freelancer signs a non disclosure agreement so the idea that I should have asked for everything so "...I have something to bill on it..."  is just proposterous.

 


I assume one of your responses is to me. I have no idea since you didn't quote anyone, but I'll point out that you don't have to accept an offer while waiting for them to get back to you.

prestonhunter
Community Member

re: "I hope not because I am not at fault here."

 

You are correct.

You are not at fault in any moral sense.

 

But you made a tactical mistake that affected you adversely.


The good news is that this is an easy lesson to learn, and an easy mistake to avoid in the future.

Hi Preston,

 

How is this my "tactical mistake".?

 

The role was for a "Tableau Developer" and the client had a generic job posting. After interviewing me and learning that I have the required skills and availability he hired me and I accepted. I was willing and able to work and I communicated with him consistently but never heard back from him until he eratically cancelled the job today. 

 

What tactical mistake did I make? As Far as I can tell he is the one that should be penalized for breach of contract and for breaking his word. Moreover, the job posting said that he needed 2 other freelancers for this job as well and based on what I saw on the client history just yesterday he had hired all the people that he wanted and there were two other freelancers with the title "Tableau developer" on his "in progress" list who hadn't yet billed any time. When I checked again today those two freelancers weren't there anymore so this unscrupolous client ended the contract for all three of us. Did those 2 freelancers also make a "tactical mistake" by accepting the contract?!?

 

Come on be reasonable. The idea that this is some how my fault is just barking mad. the client should be penalized and disciplined for his erratic and unethical action and this shouldn't affect my JSS.

2a05aa63
Community Member

The mistake was to click 'accept' offer before asking the client to give you a specific tasks. If they would say "I'll do it after you accept the offer" you'd say: "I sorry, but I cannot do that, bye"

mehranv
Community Member

Hi Viacheslav, 

 

For further clarification please look into two enclosed screenshots which contain communications that I have had with this particular client. 

 

As you could see in the attachments the client asked me to provide him with my personal email after I accepted the offer so he could provide me with instructions and materials and because this job required collaboration with other team members at his company who did not even have access to upwork. I was not in favour of this but since his other team members, whom I needed to collaborate with, didn't have access Upwork I accepted to work on this basis. afterwards I never heard back from him not through Upwork and nor through my private email (I cheked my spam mail as well). 

 

Based on the foregoing, this cannot be my fault. the requirements could not have been communicated entirely in advance and even if I had some generic instructions that would not have been enough to bill actual hours to this project as I would have needed access to things such as data and other info from his team members as per the screenshot.

 

This is not in anyway my fault and it should not decrease my JSS.

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**


Mehran V wrote:

 

 

This is not in anyway my fault and it should not decrease my JSS.

 

 


No matter how many times you say that, it won't change the fact that it DOES affect your JSS. So, the smart thing to do now is to pay attention to the many people who are trying to help you understand how to make sure this never happens again instead of arguing with them. 

Tiffany,

 

Why are you only focusing on only one statement that I made and completely ignoring all the other facts and evidence that I provided in my comments? 

 

Kindly respond by refuting my statements or expalining how they are wrong. Something I have not heard from you or any of the "community Guru"s here. This issue needs to be escalated. I work way too hard and have shown too much dedication to allow this to negativley effect my JSS. This is common sense. Someone who does not accept this is either ignorant or dishonest.

 


Mehran V wrote:

Tiffany,

 

Why are you only focusing on only one statement that I made and completely ignoring all the other facts and evidence that I provided in my comments? 

 

Kindly respond by refuting my statements or expalining how they are wrong. Something I have not heard from you or any of the "community Guru"s here. This issue needs to be escalated. I work way too hard and have shown too much dedication to allow this to negativley effect my JSS. This is common sense. Someone who does not accept this is either ignorant or dishonest.

 


Why aren't you listening to what everyone is trying to tell you? Yes, this will affect your JSS and no, it isn't fair. But good luck trying to reason with Upwork over this. A job with no money paid is considered to be an unsuccessful job. Period.

 

And yes, I agree that most project descriptions are incomplete. But if a client selects your bid, you should then send messages to them to ask questions about the project and have them send the materials that you will need to get started. BEFORE accepting the bid. You can either take this advice, or ignore it. Your choice.

Hi Christine,

 

Thank you very much for the message. I am a reasonable person and I will be happy to listen to and accept reasonable arguments, not bigoted ones. 

 

The client ended the contract around 48 hours after he awarded it to me (FYI: 2 other freelancer were also hired at the same time as me and he ended the contract with those 2 people as well). During these 48 hours I reached out to the client 4 times asking him for instructions and materials but he did not respond. I even proposed a video call for requirement gathering but again no response.

 

Do you have any familiarity with the “Tableau developer” role and what a “Tableau developer” does? The duties of a Tableau Developer are not similar to, I don’t know, washing the dishes or taking out the trash!

No! Tableau development requires detailed requirement gathering that is always done after the job is awarded to the freelancer. Most freelancers even bill the client for the requirement gathering phase and that is the phase in which the job details are determined and the wireframe and action items for the project is created.

 

It is not possible for a Tableau developer to just start working and billing hours based on a generic job description. It just isn’t and you can never put the cart before the horse. This job didn’t even reach the requirement gathering phase as the client was unresponsive and erratically ended the contract 48 hours after awarding it. In other words, the project never started at all !!! And my JSS gets negatively affected because of this?!!!? No logical person would give any verdict on this but “barking mad”!

 

Having in mind the foregoing, what could I have done differently to avoid this? What would you have done differently?

 

Please advise.


Mehran V wrote:

 

Having in mind the foregoing, what could I have done differently to avoid this? What would you have done differently?

 

Please advise.


Mehran, everyone on this thread has already answered this question. You ask for clarifications BEFORE you accept the project. Just because the client has sent you an offer doesn't mean that you have to say yes right away. Re-read the responses because I'm not sure how else to re-word this in order to get through to you. It doesn't seem like you want to listen to any advice, but if you don't, then this situation will probably happen to you again.

 

If it's normal for freelancers like yourself to bill for the "requirement gathering phase" then when you are hired, you should turn on the time clock and start writing a message to the client about what you need and how to proceed. If you had logged even 10 minutes on this project, you could have avoided a hit to your JSS.

 

I also think it was a mistake to send the client reminders every day for the past three days. Yesterday was a holiday and a lot of people are on reduced hours this week, so perhaps he thought that your messaging was excessive. I would have sent one message and then waited for at least a week for the client to get back to me.

Christine,

 

I have read each and every comment by you and your fellow "Commuity Guru"s but I don't think you have carefully read even a single one of my posts. I don't blame you as you do not seem to have any knowledge on this particular job and you are treating a complex "Tableau Development" project like something simple such as "Data Entry" or something that could be done based on few simple paragraphs of instructions!

 

I have no more questions for you. You didn't respond to my queries but thanks anyway.


Mehran V wrote:

Christine,

 

I have read each and every comment by you and your fellow "Commuity Guru"s but I don't think you have carefully read even a single one of my posts. I don't blame you as you do not seem to have any knowledge on this particular job and you are treating a complex "Tableau Development" project like something simple such as "Data Entry" or something that could be done based on few simple paragraphs of instructions!

 

I have no more questions for you. You didn't respond to my queries but thanks anyway.


I don't need to have knowledge of your particular job. Everyone who responded on this thread is a top-rated freelancer and all of us do jobs that are too complex to be explained in a project description. It's you who is failing to understand, not us. But go ahead and "escalate" for all the good it'll do you.


Mehran V wrote:

 

Do you have any familiarity with the “Tableau developer” role and what a “Tableau developer” does? The duties of a Tableau Developer are not similar to, I don’t know, washing the dishes or taking out the trash!

No! Tableau development requires detailed requirement gathering that is always done after the job is awarded to the freelancer. Most freelancers even bill the client for the requirement gathering phase and that is the phase in which the job details are determined and the wireframe and action items for the project is created.

 

It is not possible for a Tableau developer to just start working and billing hours based on a generic job description. It just isn’t and you can never put the cart before the horse. This job didn’t even reach the requirement gathering phase as the client was unresponsive and erratically ended the contract 48 hours after awarding it. In other words, the project never started at all !!! And my JSS gets negatively affected because of this?!!!? No logical person would give any verdict on this but “barking mad”!

 

Having in mind the foregoing, what could I have done differently to avoid this? What would you have done differently?

 

Please advise.


 

I'm not familiar with what a Tableau developer does. I am familair with what a graphic designer does, as that is what I do. Like you, I can not start a job based on the JD alone. For me, I need to schedule a discovery meeting, which I do immediately after receiving a job offer. I determine what I need from the client and get this information in the discovery meeting.  I NEVER accept a job until AFTER the discovery meeting. Then, once I accept the offer, I immediately turn on the tracker and type out my creative brief outlining what I discovered and share it with the client to show that we are on the same page (all billable time). Clients are usually very appreciative of this, and it shows your professionalism. It is a huge risk to accept a job without getting all the information you need after receiving the job offer, and not one that I am ever willing to take. 

 

Like others have said this WILL impact your JSS negatively. VERY negatively in fact...maybe even moreso than bad feedback. That's because UW views it as an unsuccessful outcome of the job. 

 

I also noticed you are a Top-Rated freelancer. Have you used your feedback removal perk yet? Although it's named a "Feedback removal" perk, don't let the name fool you. You can use it for removing any closed contract. Since you have a 93% JSS, I'd recommend jusing this perk if you don't want your score to drop below 90%.  

Thanks David, I will see if this negatively affects my JSS. If yes, I will use the feedback removal.

 


Mehran V wrote:

Thanks David, I will see if this negatively affects my JSS. If yes, I will use the feedback removal.

 


With a 93% JSS, I'd suggest that you not wait until the next JSS calculation to see if this will negatively affect it. You don't want it to drop below 90% and lose your perk. If you are sitll not convinced that it will negatively effect your score, reach out to Upwork support and ask if they view it as an unsuccessful outcome and include it as a factor in calculating your score. They will tell you that they do include it as a factor, and they do view it as an unsuccessful outcome. 


David S M wrote:


With a 93% JSS, I'd suggest that you not wait until the next JSS calculation to see if this will negatively affect it. You don't want it to drop below 90% and lose your perk. 


My understanding is that you can still use the perk in the two-week period after JSS drops below 90%. The number will stay down for that two-week period, but there is a small window to clean up after the impact hits.

Thanks again David. base don my understanding even if my JSS falls below 90% I won't lose my Top Rated badge immediately as Top Rated is based on having a JSS of over 90% for the 13 of the past 16 weeks. so I will still have a few weeks to use the perk even if my JSS is below 90%

 

Never the less, I will contact Upwork Support and ask them to remove that outcome. 


David S M wrote:

Like others have said this WILL impact your JSS negatively. VERY negatively in fact...maybe even moreso than bad feedback. That's because UW views it as an unsuccessful outcome of the job. 


It may not have much of an impact or any at all. CERTAINLY not "even moreso than bad feedback."

 

I had one recently, and the impact was 1% (but I have more contracts in my calculation windows, so any impact is diluted, of course.)


Also, he has 2 weeks after losing Top Rated (IF that is what might happen) to use the perk.

mehranv
Community Member

Petra, you were absolutely correct. I checked my updated JSS today and contrary to what everyone else had told me it didn't go down at all. In fact, it went up by 3% which was the result of 3 successful projects which I have completed since the last cycle. That said, the impact of this incident was either zero or very small.

 

Thank you !


Mehran V wrote:

 

Do you have any familiarity with the “Tableau developer” role and what a “Tableau developer” does? The duties of a Tableau Developer are not similar to, I don’t know, washing the dishes or taking out the trash!

No! Tableau development requires detailed requirement gathering that is always done after the job is awarded to the freelancer. Most freelancers even bill the client for the requirement gathering phase and that is the phase in which the job details are determined and the wireframe and action items for the project is created.

 

It is not possible for a Tableau developer to just start working and billing hours based on a generic job description. It just isn’t and you can never put the cart before the horse. This job didn’t even reach the requirement gathering phase as the client was unresponsive and erratically ended the contract 48 hours after awarding it. In other words, the project never started at all !!! And my JSS gets negatively affected because of this?!!!? No logical person would give any verdict on this but “barking mad”!

 

Having in mind the foregoing, what could I have done differently to avoid this? What would you have done differently?

 

Please advise.


Preston was among the first to advise you on what you could have done differently. You may want to take a peek at his profile before condescendingly assuming that your project is just too complicated for our little minds to comprehend. Jennifer, too, since you seem to think us gals can't comprehend anything more complicated than washing dishes and data entry.

 

It's worth noting that across all fields, every single person advised you to do the same thing: ask the client for more detailed information before clicking "accept." It's kind of hard to understand how your big old brain can take in all that developy stuff that we just can't be expected to wrap our minds around, yet you can't grasp that not one single person has suggested that the job description should have been adequate, but that you should have ASKED FOR INFORMATION BEFORE ACCEPTING. Just like all of us who are successful here do (including the developer who first offered you this suggestion).

Tiffany...don't be rediculous! I wasn't being condescending. I was just using an example and it has nothing to do with male/female gender!

 

Okay,  so you and your Top Rated community guru's here are suggesting  that I start billing the client for the time right from the beginning when I accept the project and start turning on the timer even for initial communications? Does this sound right to you? The client might flip the lid and think I am trying to take advantage of them by billing hours before anything has started. This alone might make them lose trust trigger them to end the contract and go with another freelancer.

 

One thing you didn't take into account, this particular project was an hourly job but what if the job is a fixed-price job?!? then what? how will the freelancer bill time spent on initial communications?

 

Moreover, you are completely ignoring the fact that the unscrupolous client closed the job 48 hours after awarding it to me and most of that 48 hours was during a new years day, a public holiday, so he essentially didn't even give me much time to bill any hours. He ended the contract before the ink dried up (methaphorically speaking!)

 

Something else Community Gurus are ignoring is that this client hired two other Tableau developers along with me and then he blew all of us off together so those other Tableau developers are in the same boat as me. I checked this by going in the  "Job's in Progress" section. Yesterday, there were two other freelancers jsut like myself there who had billed 0 hours and apparently they were also waiting for further instructions. Today those two are no  longer in the " Jobs in progress" section. So it appears the client initially wanted to hire three Tableau Developers and then decided he doesn't want them anymore after he actually brought them onboard. Don't you think this client is at fault as nothing I said or did would have changed his mind anyway?

 

Please advise.

 


Mehran V wrote:

 

Okay,  so you and your Top Rated community guru's here are suggesting  that I start billing the client for the time right from the beginning when I accept the project and start turning on the timer even for initial communications?

 

No.

 

For at least the 6th time from at least four different experienced freelancers..we are suggesting that you ASK THE CLIENT FOR THE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION YOU NEED TO START WORKING ON THE PROJECT BEFORE YOU CLICK ACCEPT.

 

I can't understand why this seems so complicated to you.

 

Client makes an offer. You're interested but don't have what you need to get started. You say, "Sure, I'd love to work on this with you. I'll accept the offer and get started as soon as you send over (whatever additional information you will need)."

 

You wait.

 

The client sends the info.

 

You look it over and make sure you have everything you need. 

 

If you do, you click accept. Then you start working on the project and billing the client.

 

 

Thanks Tiffany. Fair enough, This brings me to another point that you have not addressed yet:

 

The client asked me to accept the contract and he requested that I provide him with my personal email because the "requirement gathering" required interaction with people in his company who did not even have access to Upwork. He said he will connect me with those individuals upon accepting the offer and that most project communications would be done using personal email. SOMETHING HE NEVER DID.

 

While I was not keen about this I accepted to communicate through personal email, I accepted because his other team members didn't have access to Upwork and it was reasonable that I make an exception with this one client. Yet he started ghosting on me on Upwork and never sent a message through personal email ( I checked my junk mail as well). Is it fair that I be penalized for the clients dishonesty1?

Honestly, Mehran, whether or not it's fair just isn't in play. With millions of freelancers, there is just no reasonable way to manage case-by-case decisions, so Upwork has created an algorithm that makes what it considers the best approximation and it is what it is. Nothing you've said suggests that the client broke any rules, so there's really no process available to you (other than the use of your perk).

 

For what it's worth, this type of thing is exactly the reason that perk exists, so that when good freelancers occasionally end up in bad circumstances due to some unforeseen event or a bad client, they have some means of protecting themselves from the impact.

Thanks Tiffany,  

I understand that you don't make the rules, fair or unfair ones, and you just convery them.

I will see if this actually reduces my JSS and if so I will use the feedback removal perk.

Thanks again, I appreciate all your time and knowledge sharing.

Cheers, Mehran 🙂


Mehran V wrote:

Don't you think this client is at fault as nothing I said or did would have changed his mind anyway?


I DO think that nothing you said or did would have changed the client's mind. That is irrelevant. You didn't need to change the client's mind to protect your JSS. You needed to change your process.

 

If you had waited to get the complete information before clicking accept, there would have been no open contract and no harm to your JSS.


Mehran V wrote:

Tiffany,

 

Why are you only focusing on only one statement that I made and completely ignoring all the other facts and evidence that I provided in my comments? 

 

Kindly respond by refuting my statements or expalining how they are wrong. Something I have not heard from you or any of the "community Guru"s here. This issue needs to be escalated. I work way too hard and have shown too much dedication to allow this to negativley effect my JSS. This is common sense. Someone who does not accept this is either ignorant or dishonest.

 


Mehran, there is nothing to refute. Jobs closed with no money paid hurt your JSS. Period. It's an algorithm. Upwork does not assess specific cases to see whether you should be an exception.  The job closed without you getting paid anything. Your JSS will take a hit. If it happens again, your JSS will be further damaged.

 

You have two choices right now. You can suffer ONE hit to your JSS and learn from it, or you can suffer more hits to your JSS in the future because you are more interested in being right than in learning how to avoid this.

 

If you choose not to learn from it and to further damage your JSS, it obviously doesn't affect any of us in any way. We offer information because we were under the impression that YOU cared about your JSS and would want to avoid future harm. 

"...Upwork does not assess specific cases to see whether you should be an exception..."

 

Thanks Tiffany, How can I escalate this to a higher authority so they could treat this as an "exception"? The "community Guru"s here are obviously not knowledgeable about the nature of this particular project and what this job entails and are providing the same generic answers as I also explained to your colleague Christine. I don't blame you as this is probably the best of your knowledge and understanding so I want to escalate it to someone I could speak perhaps through phone.

 

As a Top Rated freelancer I have access to "Premium customer support, including phone and chat" as per the Upwork website. I would like to use that.

 

Please advise.


Mehran V wrote:

"...Upwork does not assess specific cases to see whether you should be an exception..."

 

Thanks Tiffany, How can I escalate this to a higher authority so they could treat this as an "exception"? The "community Guru"s here are obviously not knowledgeable about the nature of this particular project and what this job entails and are providing the same generic answers as I also explined to your colleague Christine. I don't blame you as this is probably the best of your knowledge and understanding so I want to escalate it to someone I could speak perhaps through phone.

First, Mehran, you should understand this basic and very important point: neither I nor Christine (nor any other community guru) works for Upwork. We are long-time, successful Upwork freelancers who have extensive knowledge and experience with how Upwork works and what has happened the previous several hundred times freelancers like you have expected exceptions to be made in situations like this. In other words, people who could be spending this time making money, but have instead chosen to try to help a very contentious stranger.

 

Talking on the phone probably won't happen, since Upwork makes a point of not offering phone support to most freelancers. That wasn't always true and is in large part due to the fact that it is cost-prohibitive to provide enough staff to go around in circles with every freelancer who demands special treatment.

 

You get bounced to this forum to vent about this type of problem because they don't want to talk to you.

 

If you are able to reach someone, I wish you the best of luck. What happened is unfortunate. But, it's extremely unlikely that you're going to get satisfaction. And, you are investing a huge amount of time and energy that could be used toward paying work. 

 

lysis10
Community Member


Viacheslav K wrote:

The mistake was to click 'accept' offer before asking the client to give you a specific tasks. If they would say "I'll do it after you accept the offer" you'd say: "I sorry, but I cannot do that, bye"


They don't really do that. They send an offer, and you can just tell them that you'll accept when they get back to you. If they never get back to you, then the offer will just expire.

mehranv
Community Member

 


Jennifer M wrote:

Viacheslav K wrote:

The mistake was to click 'accept' offer before asking the client to give you a specific tasks. If they would say "I'll do it after you accept the offer" you'd say: "I sorry, but I cannot do that, bye"


They don't really do that. They send an offer, and you can just tell them that you'll accept when they get back to you. If they never get back to you, then the offer will just expire.


<<THIS>>

 

Same advice whether it is a fixed-price or hourly project.  

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