Client ended the contract without releasing second milestone!

[wasfakamal]

Hello there

So there was total 2 milestone, i submitted the work, client paid me 1 milestone but he ended the contract without clearing my 2 milestone payment and he is not even responding me.

I cant seem to file a dispute too!

Help please

[prestonhunter]

Clients are not required to create and fund additional milestones.

Here is an example,

Client says there will be two milestones, for a total of $100.

Posted budget for contract is $100.

Client funds first milestone, for $10.

Freelancer does the work.

Client releases $10 payment,

Client closes contract.

The client has done nothing wrong with regards to Upwork rules.

[prestonhunter]

re: “and he is not even responding me.”

Clients are not required to respond to freelancers.

I get paid automatically for all of the work that I do on Upwork, regardless of whether or not a client responds.

[wasfakamal]

Then this is unfair, We discussed the pricing and everything and he agreed to it and later he did fraud by not clearing my payment. I think there should be rules, when adding the milestone, upwork must ask the client to fund the full milestone.

[martina_plaschka]

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Wasfa K wrote:

Then this is unfair, We discussed the pricing and everything and he agreed to it and later he did fraud by not clearing my payment. I think there should be rules, when adding the milestone, upwork must ask the client to fund the full milestone.

---

Why did you submit work before the milestone was activated? There are rules about that, namely never send work not covered by an active milestone. 

[prestonhunter]

re: "Then this is unfair."

It is not unfair.

How is it unfair?

re: "I think there should be rules"

There are rules.

You weren't following the rules.

[wlyonsatl · Accepted solution]

Wasta K.,

To prevent this sort of problem, do not begin work on any milestone for any project until:

a) Upwork's system shows you that the client has fully funded the milestone

b) For milestones 2 or greater, the client has released all escrowed amounts for all previous milestones you have completed and formally submitted your work on.

Use only the green "Submit" button on the project's Upwork page to submit work for payment on each milestone. Do not formally re-submit the work if the client doesn't respond quickly; that just re-starts the 14-day clock for Upwork to automatically release escrow to you. And give the client time to review your work - up to 14 days.

In general, on fixed price projects it is a good idea to a) be very specific on what your deliverable is for each milestone, b) frontload milestones (collect as much money as you can with early milestones rather than taking most of your income on the back end of the project). 

If you have any questions about the above points, don't hesitate to post them here.

Good luck!

P.S. You will find people here who ask you rhetorical questions about why you did something, rather than actually being helpful with your problem. Obviously, you have come here to find out how to solve that problem, not to have someone ask you why you did something that they have been around long enough to know is likely a bad idea.

[petra_r]

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Will L wrote:

To prevent this sort of problem, do not begin work on any milestone for any project until:

a) Upwork's system shows you that the client has fully funded the milestone

b) For milestones 2 or greater, the client has released all escrowed amounts for all previous milestones you have completed and formally submitted you work on.

---

a) It isn't possible to partly fund a milestone. 

b) It isn't possible to activate a second or subsequent milestone(s) until the first or previous one(s) has/have been released. In other words, if a second or third or eleventh milestone is active, all  previous milestones must already have been approved.

[wlyonsatl]

So, Petra, there is no difference between "funded" and "fully funded" when it comes to escrow. How helpful of you to point that out.

Do you understand that beginning work on a milestone and activating a milestone are completely different activities, which is why new freelancers too often begin their work on a milestone before it has been funded by the client? 

I assume by "activated" you mean "funded/fully funded by the client." I don't remember Upwork using the word "activated" in its support documentation here...

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211063748-Fixed-Price-Protection

... but I'm sure I don't read that documentation as often as you do.

[petra_r]

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Will L wrote:

Do you understand that beginning work on a milestone and activating a milestone are completely different activities, which is why new freelancers too often begin their work on a milestone before it has been funded by the client? 

---

Obviously. "Activating" the milestone is what clients do.

"Working on milestones" is what freelancers do.

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Will L wrote:

I don't remember Upwork using the word "activated" in its support documentation here...

---

They mention it on the client side because it's clients who activate milestones.

On the freelancer side, having an "active" milestone means there is a funded and active milestone.

That also means that the previous milestones have been paid, because it is impossible for a client to activate a milestone until all previous ones have been put to bed.

[wasfakamal]

Yes exactly too many "whys" but thankyou for your answer i really appreciate!

[m_terrazas]

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Wasfa K wrote:

Yes exactly too many "whys" but thankyou for your answer i really appreciate!

---

Yes too many, why?
And do you know why?
Because there are too many freelancers who don't seem to read anything about how Upwork works until they are in trouble.

And read all the answers, lest you be left with some information that is not "completely" correct.

[jgutenberg]

I see that one might have missed the good parts of Upwork, ensuring to get paid. Right, the freelancer should have been smarter there (or live with the risk), and it's fine to give an advice for the future.

Nonetheless, if there is somebody telling me, they agreed on a service with a client which is now ghosting, I will not imply that everything is okay, just because it is backed up by the system of Upwork (not saying it's Upworks fault though). Of course this may still be fraud by the client, and at least the client would still be obliged to pay the freelancer.

Maybe some of you don't care for the 'real-life' problem of the freelancer, that is still in place, notwithstanding the nature of Upwork's system. But I don't see why one should kick down that much, with that edifying tone? To me it looks almost like justifying the client isn't to blame for anything--what, according to what the freelancer has told us here, is not the case.

[martina_plaschka]

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Keven K wrote:

I see that one might have missed the good parts of Upwork, ensuring to get paid. Right, the freelancer should have been smarter there (or live with the risk), and it's fine to give an advice for the future.

Nonetheless, if there is somebody telling me, they agreed on a service with a client which is now ghosting, I will not imply that everything is okay, just because it is backed up by the system of Upwork (not saying it's Upworks fault though). Of course this may still be fraud by the client, and at least the client would still be obliged to pay the freelancer.

Maybe some of you don't care for the 'real-life' problem of the freelancer, that is still in place, notwithstanding the nature of Upwork's system. But I don't see why one should kick down that much, with that edifying tone? To me it looks almost like justifying the client isn't to blame for anything--what, according to what the freelancer has told us here, is not the case.

---

You are right. The client is ethically wrong in not paying for a service. But being ethically right don't pay your bills. Doing all the things that are necessary to get paid, does. If the freelancer does not educate himself how to use upwork properly, that's on them, not the client. It's like having a huge wad of money sticking out of your back pocket, and then complaining that somebody stole it. Yes, it is unethical to steal, but one can also take some basic measures to keep oneself safe. 

[jgutenberg]

I really appreciate your kind response!

In addition to your thief's allegory I'd like to put, that still the thief would be obliged to give the money back. It's not merely an ethical question, but one of laws too.

And by the way--just in case anyone would imply that way--I wouldn't even say that this topic would not have enough to do with Upwork itself to bring it up here, just because it's, I concede, rather left to the police and/or judges to solve this issue.

However, of course, it's never sufficient to just deny one's own responsibilities, just because there is somebody else to blame. So, right, the thief is to blame, but still, if one has the chance to prevent to be stolen, one should definitely do so in first place! Still, I only felt that the balance here was a little too much towards justifying the thief.

[martina_plaschka]

---

Keven K wrote:

I really appreciate your kind response!

In addition to your thief's allegory I'd like to put, that still the thief would be obliged to give the money back. It's not merely an ethical question, but one of laws too.

And by the way--just in case anyone would imply that way--I wouldn't even say that this topic would not have enough to do with Upwork itself to bring it up here, just because it's, I concede, rather left to the police and/or judges to solve this issue.

However, of course, it's never sufficient to just deny one's own responsibilities, just because there is somebody else to blame. So, right, the thief is to blame, but still, if one has the chance to prevent to be stolen, one should definitely do so in first place! Still, I only felt that the balance here was a little too much towards justifying the thief.

---

In the real world, a thief will rarely return the money. But if police finds him and can prove his guilt, he might get punished. That option is open to the freelancer. He can use all legal measures that are available to him to pursue a civil matter. It should be easy enough to prove that he is owed money. 

[jgutenberg]

And in the same way like a thief will rarely return the money, there is barely any way I can imagine a random freelancer, missing the point of milestones and stuff, pursuing its claims in an international case. Conceded again 🙂

(Not because it would be impossible. Most people will just refrain from doing so. And mostly, and sadly, it will be better too. And I feel that this mindset is part of the problem.)

[2e395a62]

As we have an Independence Day here (bank holiday, which means I can work harder and the phone is rarely ringing), let me share a bit of "philosophical" summary:

1. World is unfair - always was, always will be. Deal with it. Period.

2. People (some) steal from others if they can and get by with it.

3. Small sums lost to fraudsters are not worth the hassle and costs to find the fraudster and/or get the money back. Or it is impossible, technically. Police or FBI-type force could not care less if someone is robbed of 100 bucks or less (feel free to take or add some here)

4. Walking alone around 2 am in Central Park in a mini skirt or in an Armani suit, with a Rolex on your wrist, and a thick wallet sticking out of your pocket does not give anyone the right to attack you. Trust me - go and check it out by yourself. Then tell me about your experience, once you leave the hospital. 

5. There is only one weapon against the dangers of this world - it is called common sense. OK, a nice and shiny .45 could also prove to be helpful once in a while but has limited use over the internet. 

We have this saying (maybe it's international, IDK), that "cemeteries are populated by people who had the right of way".  It is a self-defense world and I suggest everyone deal with it and get prepared - in the case of UW, it means following ToS. It won't give you 100% protection, but it will save you from most of the easy-to-make mistakes which always result in one thing - lost time and/or money.

I have made my mistakes here as well, learned the lesson, and moved on, now acting on the platform much more reasonable than I was before. 

Good luck to all!

(and beer for my horses) 😉

[jgutenberg]

Speaking for myself, I would of course absolutely agree with you. But I assume, it is of no use to have somebody speaking for somebody else that way. I just don't see any reason why to speak which such sub-tones. Somewhere else today I've read the word patronizing for describing a similar thread. I think, it sounds fit; though I wouldn't mean it so harsh.

Coming to see you bringing this topic a level higher, as to a way of life: The way we deal "philosophically" with each other and "those little fraudsters" may not immediately, or ever, bring back our money. Neither do such words of wisdom. But it still has an impact on the long run; not just philosophically. Believe me, I often see cases where fraudsters try to profit from such a hostile environment and scam people with smart tricks for lousy bucks. 'Forget about it. No chance' and so on, you know those words, as seen here. But actually, the more victims stood up, the higher the probability to be caught. And cave, the final aim of it is not, to catch them. It is to lower the probabilities against fraudsters, for that they conclude that it's better to not commit further crimes.

By the way, it's the same with struggles between bigger companies and smaller freelancers/employees. And businesses and consumers. It's been a long development, and crucially dependent on the mindset, that led to leaving behind archaic structures of 'those who aren't strong, powerful and smart enough are just unlucky, so what'. And yes, I know, it's still not happening all over the world. And I'm saying, one reason for this is people mocking about fellows making mistakes or being too philosophical 😛

All in all, for me it's an insult to kick down after the victim. Instead, Upwork should rather have an own interest in creating a welcoming environment.

For the record, maybe I also do have just too much time today 😄 And yes, at least I've also heard the saying, "Der Friedhof ist voll von Leuten, die Vorfahrt hatten.", and I also do like it and live according to it, at times 😄 Wish you a pleasant Independence Day!

[petra_r]

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Piotr O wrote:

(and beer for my horses) 😉

---

You have horses? My 2 favourite horses were Wielkopolska 🙂 from your home country.

[jgutenberg]

In a Cowboy's world we should all have horses, is what he said there, didn't he? 😅

[2e395a62]

@Petra - unfortunately not, but I was close to buying an AQH, as I enjoy western riding a lot. Congrats on the two Wielkopolaki (that's how we'd talk about them in informal plural) you have - sweet moving and beautiful breed, indeed. 

With my little "beer" ending I was referring to  this: 

@Keven - I don't know why the word "patronizing" has made such a fantastic career recently - it's like a perfect answer to anything anyone says that either we don't like or is a general comment we disagree with or is something that tells the truth we know but are unwilling to admit. My point is not to say "let's do nothing about the fraud" - sure, if there is any structural way to wipe out the scammers and fraudsters, I'm all in. But I see too many people who deliberately neglect any precautions that could be taken to not become a victim, then obviously they become a victim and then make a big fuss about it, blaming anybody else except themselves. And if an old fart like me chimes in to say "hey, if you ask to take down a Dixie flag in the southern roadhouse you may get shot "accidentally"", they start saying it is "patronizing". Been called it already here, at least once 😉 Keven, no offense here, I got your point and this is again a general remark, not pointed at you. I'm just a bit disappointed that some people get defensive and use all kinds of fancy words to attack someone who's telling a hard-core truth: read the f.. ToS and follow the simple steps and, in 95% of cases, you are immune to fraud. As I always admit - I have made my mistakes here as well, survived, and am willing to tell anybody: "do as I was told here (and rightfully in a quite harsh manner by fellow freelancers) and RTFM, dammit!". 

Great day Y'all!

[582a9aa4]

Please I need your help!

I started working with my client after he activated the first milestone but suddenly Upwork ended the contract.

I don't know what happened. 

What shall I do?

Thanks.

[NikolaS]

Hi Dagmawit,

Thank you for reaching out to us. I checked and it seems that you already created a support ticket for the issue you are experiencing. Please allow more time for our team to review your case and respond accordingly to your ticket. You will be notified of their response.