Client from Hell

[#1]

Okay, so I had a bad experience with a client yesterday. I want to defend myself and leave feedback because his behavior isn't acceptable but I'm afraid of losing my top rated score. 

If I don't leave feedback will any negative feedback he might have shown show up on my profile? I want to defend myself but I'm not sure if just ignoring it would be better. 

If I leave feedback and give him a refund will the feedback I leave dissappear? I'm not sure what do do. Does anyone have any advice?

I'm thinking of leaving this feedback:  

I'm not sure if **Edited for community guidelines** is used to working with writers. It takes some collaboration if clients don't have clear expectations. Most of the time it's fun and productive but sometimes you run into someone who doesn't play well with others.

This is one of the worst matches I've ever had on Upwork but it happens. It's usually a communication breakdown but I feel like I have to defend myself here.

This was a rush job so I didn't have a lot of time to understand his direction. After he gave me a mess of an outline that was "70% done," and some vague directions, I completed a draft within the time frame allotted and asked for feedback. I think he needs to work on his arithmetic because the text was far from 70% done.

I'm not sure what he expected.  I showed him a draft to get feedback so I could finish. He proceeded to throw a fit and accused me of not working on it at all when I spent hours on the piece. 

Still didn't have any clear feedback on why or what he was upset about or what could improve. Maybe that's why he hired a writer because he can't use his words. Plus it was a draft, not a finished piece. I'm positive I could've adjusted it and made him happy, that's how collaboration works sometimes. But this wasn't a collaboration this was a "read my mind" project. He ended the contract and was very rude.

Just say no! I'll probably refund him but I'm not sure, the customer isn't always right and it's not fair to rip me off like that.

[#2]

I am not usually in favor of issuing refunds! If I perform a job with honesty and to the best of my abilities, I will never issue a refund even if it was to save my TR status. 

The only situation I will issue a refund is when I feel I did not do complete justice to the client or missed critical and hard deadlines. Happened only once to me! 

You have a 100% score, the project value needs to be really "good" in order to result in a 10% drop in the score. Even if it is done, Upwork takes the best of 24,12,6,3 months, so I do not think you can lose the TR status. 

Even if it does, you can use your TR perk to remove the effect of that project from the calculation, if he leaves nasty feedback you can request to have that deleted along with removing it from the calculation. 

You can just leave neutral feedback with a hint to what really happened, in an optimistic and professional tone. If he leaves bad feedback will have the opportunity to post a reply to his feedback. 

Even if you plan to refund all the $$$ if the project is already closed the client might have left the feedback already and giving a refund will be of no use, nothing can reverse the private feedback. Issuing a refund in this scenario will only hide the feedback from public view. 

Again, think about issuing a refund, if you did an honest job there is really no need to issue a refund! 

Keep us posted!

[#3 · Accepted solution]

Being top rated means you can remove feedback, provided you haven't already done so in the course of the last three months and ten contracts. Both public and hidden feedback can be removed, so your JSS won't be affected. It will say "This feedback has been removed" on your job history. 

[#4]

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Robert Y wrote:

Being top rated means you can remove feedback, provided you haven't already done so in the course of the last three months and ten contracts. Both public and hidden feedback can be removed, so your JSS won't be affected. It will say "This feedback has been removed" on your job history. 

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You can also choose not to remove the visual feedback but its effect on the JSS. It sometimes looks better.

[#5]

i need a client

[#6]

It's pretty much always a mistake to leave feedback like that for the client. It says more about you than it does about the client. 

[#7]

that's good advice, I was upset I've since calmed down. I learned alot from this I was being harsh and there was communication issues.

[#8]

As a general concept, I think freelancers are better off if they think more in terms of "what services do I offer."

That removes the "responsibility" from the client to be a noble person in all ways that a specific freelancer may expect.

A client wants me to take his calls at 2:00 a.m. and answer quetions about the project without getting paid?

I don't need to think of that as a "client from hell." I think of that as a service that I don't provide. If a client wants to hire a freelancer who does that, then he needs to hire someboy else.

There are things that a certain client might ask for which you consider outrageous, but I think it's fine. And vice versa. Not every freelancer provides every service, or is a good fit for every client.

[#9]

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Preston H wrote:

As a general concept, I think freelancers are better off not if they think more in terms of "what services do I offer."

That removes the "responsibility" from the client to be a noble person in all ways that a specific freelancer may expect.

A client wants me to take his calls at 2:00 a.m. and answer quetions about the project without getting paid?

I don't need to think of that as a "client from hell." I think of that as a service that I don't provide. If a client wants to hire a freelancer who does that, then he needs to hire someboy else.

There are things that a certain client might ask for which you consider outrageous, but I think it's fine. And vice versa. Not every freelancer provides every service, or is a good fit for every client.

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All of what you say is true, but the problem with Upwork clients is that they can get back at you by damaging you with bad feedback. They have that hold over you that clients paying for merchandise or a service don't normally have over the supplier. And they don't tell you how bad they are before you place the contract. You just have to try to guess.

[#10]

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Robert Y wrote:

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Preston H wrote:

As a general concept, I think freelancers are better off not if they think more in terms of "what services do I offer."

That removes the "responsibility" from the client to be a noble person in all ways that a specific freelancer may expect.

A client wants me to take his calls at 2:00 a.m. and answer quetions about the project without getting paid?

I don't need to think of that as a "client from hell." I think of that as a service that I don't provide. If a client wants to hire a freelancer who does that, then he needs to hire someboy else.

There are things that a certain client might ask for which you consider outrageous, but I think it's fine. And vice versa. Not every freelancer provides every service, or is a good fit for every client.

---

All of what you say is true, but the problem with Upwork clients is that they can get back at you by damaging you with bad feedback. They have that hold over you that clients paying for merchandise or a service don't normally have over the supplier. And they don't tell you how bad they are before you place the contract. You just have to try to guess.

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This is why we keep telling people to make sure they have everyting before accepting the offer. No guesswork needed.

Stop telling people the clients are bad because they can distroy you with one bad feedback.

You as a freelancer are a service provider. Just because a shop is not open 24/7 it is not a shop from hell nor would you consider telling everyoine how bad the shop is.

If you keep ending up with "bad" clients again and again the clients are not the problem but you and your service. We all know that a contract can go south for whatever reason, this is why people with a history of good work get the perk. Other have the (too often abused) option to refund the clients. But feedback from clients with a history of leaving bad feedback is removed from the calculation.

By telling freelancers to be aware of the life destroying power the clients are wielding over their heads you become the person to condemn these freelancers to a master/servant relationship instead of being equals.

[#11]

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Robert Y wrote:

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Preston H wrote:

As a general concept, I think freelancers are better off not if they think more in terms of "what services do I offer."

That removes the "responsibility" from the client to be a noble person in all ways that a specific freelancer may expect.

A client wants me to take his calls at 2:00 a.m. and answer quetions about the project without getting paid?

I don't need to think of that as a "client from hell." I think of that as a service that I don't provide. If a client wants to hire a freelancer who does that, then he needs to hire someboy else.

There are things that a certain client might ask for which you consider outrageous, but I think it's fine. And vice versa. Not every freelancer provides every service, or is a good fit for every client.

---

All of what you say is true, but the problem with Upwork clients is that they can get back at you by damaging you with bad feedback. They have that hold over you that clients paying for merchandise or a service don't normally have over the supplier. And they don't tell you how bad they are before you place the contract. You just have to try to guess.

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That is not specific to Upwork, that's the nature of freelancing. Any client can bad-mouth any contractor at any time. Any contractor has to learn to vet clients before doing business with them, suss out what they are like and how they are likely to behave. It's not easy and there are never any 100% guarantees. (And that runs both ways.) At least on UW a FL has some idea of how clients are reacting to them. Out in the world, you have no way of knowing who is saying what behind your back or what it might be costing you in lost opportunities.

[#12]

I agree, if you have a problem with a company, go to its Twitter. Anyone can speak ill of you online. 

This was largely my fault for the reasons you mentioned. Sometimes I don't say no when I should and my onboarding process for rush deliveries isn't as smooth as it is for average turnaround times. I've been freelancing now for just over a year and it's a learning process. 

Once in a blue moonwhile I get insulted it's hard not to take it personally when you are burntout from finishing something on demand and someone treats you with disdain. 

[#13]

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Adam K wrote:

I agree, if you have a problem with a company, go to its Twitter. Anyone can speak ill of you online. 

This was largely my fault for the reasons you mentioned. Sometimes I don't say no when I should and my onboarding process for rush deliveries isn't as smooth as it is for average turnaround times. I've been freelancing now for just over a year and it's a learning process. 

Once in a blue moonwhile I get insulted it's hard not to take it personally when you are burntout from finishing something on demand and someone treats you with disdain. 

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At least you have an open attitude to learning and improving your processes. The real problem is when a freelancer thinks everyone else should be running their business for them. 

[#14]

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Adam K wrote:

I agree, if you have a problem with a company, go to its Twitter. Anyone can speak ill of you online. 

This was largely my fault for the reasons you mentioned. Sometimes I don't say no when I should and my onboarding process for rush deliveries isn't as smooth as it is for average turnaround times. I've been freelancing now for just over a year and it's a learning process. 

Once in a blue moonwhile I get insulted it's hard not to take it personally when you are burntout from finishing something on demand and someone treats you with disdain. 

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You've recognized two of the most important and valuable principles in freelacing: knowing when to say no, and not taking things personally. Any successful FL will tell you when they've had things go pear-shaped, more often than not it was a contract they should have passed on. And it always pays to keep our professional head and not let things become personal, no matter how petty or irritating a situation becomes. Never underestimate the power of writing a candid, thorough response (in a separate document to avoid accidental transmission) and then deleting it. As FLs, we always have to be prepared to be the only adult in the room if necessary. 

[#15]

Robert Y wrote:

All of what you say is true, but the problem with Upwork clients is that they can get back at you by damaging you with bad feedback. They have that hold over you that clients paying for merchandise or a service don't normally have over the supplier. And they don't tell you how bad they are before you place the contract. You just have to try to guess.

This is a false premise. Consumers can view reviews of products or service through several different online portals, many of which the supplier has no control over. If you provide bad service, someone will talk about it. That was true even before people could do a simple internet search to check out your reputation. 

There was never a time when providers could offer goods and services with no fear of rumors or bad reviews. 

[#16]

When you haven't completed many jobs, it's easy for a client to do you serious damage with a bad review. There's no sure way of guarding yourself against such clients. Some have no history, or a very short history, on the site. Clients with fifty or so jobs behind them can't be damaged so much by one bad outcome, and they can remove the feedback if they're top rated.