Solved: Client- ghost

catnapper · ‎09-21-2020

Hi guys!

I am lately dealing with extremely irritating client. At the beginning I want to write- all situation is absolutely my fault, and I am aware that I lost hours of my working time. But from the beginning. I am working as an illustrator. The client contacted me asking for a work, we have been working on a sample, and he decided to hire me. He was writing me... let's say obsessively- from 6 AM till 1 AM asking for a fast deliveries, lots of revisions, etc. We have agreed on a price- one milestone for one cartoon black&while illustration. During the work he was changing the mind lots of times, and we have finished on colored realistic drawings. I was writing that it will increase the price as the first illustration was taking me 1-2 hours as the new one over 5. He was all the time saying "yeah yeah do not worry", he accepted all new conditions and he kept his workflow for 3 weeks. I do not want to teel you all details of this story and all reasons why I have do that, I just need an advice. He stopped to be resonsive. He paid for 4 illustrations out of 16 I made (16 I mean that he accepted, as I am not including the finished rendered ones which he had commented "oh no I do not like it, the fish looks as it is stoned/ high/ stupid or whatever). I am aware that possibly he will use my work. But if he did not pay, he uses it illegally, correct? In the contract it is written "all illustrations are the property of the client as soon as they are purchased". I have other client happy to buy all of them (even the stoned and stupid looking), and I want just to get rid of this first client. Is it possible? Will it affect my job success score? I am almost sure that if I will decide to end the contract he will possibly leave me a bad review or ask for refund. I am really serious about my profile on Upwork, as I am working here for a time and I made it my full time job. Thank you for reading this, and I hope to have some advice from you.

feed_my_eyes · ‎09-21-2020

If the first client paid for four of the illustrations, then you cannot sell all of them to a second client - the first client unquestionably owns the ones that he did pay for. And if the remaining 12 illustrations are based on an initial idea that the client paid for, i.e. if this is going to be some sort of mascot or logo for his business, and the same or similar character is depicted in all of the illustrations, then it would be unethical (and potentially get you into legal trouble) if you sold them to another client to use. Why not ask the first client, "If you're not going to use the remaining 12 illustrations, do you mind if I resell them?" If he does mind, then he should pay you.

In the future, you can avoid getting into difficulties by insisting that the client sets up a new milestone for any work that wasn't included in the first milestone. If you had agreed to provide one illustration as the first milestone, then he should have released the payment and set up a new milestone if he wanted further options. But with a project like this - a logo or a character illustration - I personally would quote for 3-5 initial options and two rounds of revisions to be included in my fixed price, because it would be pretty rare for a client to sign off on the first thing that you send them, and unreasonable to expect it. Next time, quote a higher price - and accept the very strong possibility that the client isn't going to go crazy with happiness at your first attempt - then you won't end up being resentful.

View solution in original post

feed_my_eyes · ‎09-21-2020

If the first client paid for four of the illustrations, then you cannot sell all of them to a second client - the first client unquestionably owns the ones that he did pay for. And if the remaining 12 illustrations are based on an initial idea that the client paid for, i.e. if this is going to be some sort of mascot or logo for his business, and the same or similar character is depicted in all of the illustrations, then it would be unethical (and potentially get you into legal trouble) if you sold them to another client to use. Why not ask the first client, "If you're not going to use the remaining 12 illustrations, do you mind if I resell them?" If he does mind, then he should pay you.

In the future, you can avoid getting into difficulties by insisting that the client sets up a new milestone for any work that wasn't included in the first milestone. If you had agreed to provide one illustration as the first milestone, then he should have released the payment and set up a new milestone if he wanted further options. But with a project like this - a logo or a character illustration - I personally would quote for 3-5 initial options and two rounds of revisions to be included in my fixed price, because it would be pretty rare for a client to sign off on the first thing that you send them, and unreasonable to expect it. Next time, quote a higher price - and accept the very strong possibility that the client isn't going to go crazy with happiness at your first attempt - then you won't end up being resentful.

catnapper · ‎09-21-2020

Thank you for a quick response. The project are boat wraps with fish illustrations, so it would not be unethical, in this situation I would not ever consider reselling images which I do not have any rights for. The client just gave me the list of fish and I kept illustrating them. I asked if he mind if I will resell the ones he did not purchase and he specified which illustrations he wants. The problem is that even if I am trying to resolve the issue he asks to watermark my illustrations with his logo, not sell them to anyone, but at the same time he avoids the topic of payments, and even if I am pushing the topic he says "do not worry, I will pay", it is since 15th August when I am working for him. And finally, from two weeks he is not responding. At the beginning he explained "oh Upwork do not notify me when you wrote" but from 10 days 0 response, I have tried to reach him several times, nothing.

feed_my_eyes · ‎09-21-2020

Krystyna N wrote:
Thank you for a quick response. The project are boat wraps with fish illustrations, so it would not be unethical, in this situation I would not ever consider reselling images which I do not have any rights for. The client just gave me the list of fish and I kept illustrating them. I asked if he mind if I will resell the ones he did not purchase and he specified which illustrations he wants. The problem is that even if I am trying to resolve the issue he asks to watermark my illustrations with his logo, not sell them to anyone, but at the same time he avoids the topic of payments, and even if I am pushing the topic he says "do not worry, I will pay", it is since 15th August when I am working for him. And finally, from two weeks he is not responding. At the beginning he explained "oh Upwork do not notify me when you wrote" but from 10 days 0 response, I have tried to reach him several times, nothing.

So, if you're saying that one fish is a carp, another fish is a tuna, another is a... I don't know, pike? (Sorry, I don't know much about fish.) And he said he wanted to pay for the tuna and the carp, but not the pike? Well, that makes things clearer. Send him one more message, saying something like, "Thank you for your payment for the four fish illustrations. If I don't hear from you before the end of September and receive your payment for the remaining 12 illustrations, I will tell my other client that they're available for him to purchase." Then, wait until the end of September, and sell them. The end.

catnapper · ‎09-21-2020

yes, exactly! I will follow your guides. But what if he will leave me a negative feedback? It is now very convenient to use my work without paying for it, so I think that it can make him angry.

petra_r · ‎09-21-2020

Krystyna N wrote:
yes, exactly! I will follow your guides. But what if he will leave me a negative feedback?

Then he does. You can't let people walk all over you for fear of feedback.

If you have your top-rated perk available, use it to remove the feedback if needed and move on.

feed_my_eyes · ‎09-21-2020

Krystyna N wrote:
yes, exactly! I will follow your guides. But what if he will leave me a negative feedback? It is now very convenient to use my work without paying for it, so I think that it can make him angry.

Either he wants the work and should pay for it, or he doesn't want the work and shouldn't care if you sell it to somebody else. There's no third option. Believe it or not, clients will often stop trying to bully you, and treat you with more respect, if you (politely) stand up for yourself.

lucioric · ‎05-04-2023

That is why I don't advice to work fixed price for clients where you have a gut feeling of that expectatives can change. Set up as hourly and i can walk with you to the moon, only hearing your problems, but being turned to full time in terms of the time and energy taken, but not in terms of payment, not a good deal.

I know it is an old post, so I hope that you have solved this issue adequately.