Client is not willing to pay and threatening to leave negative feedback

[deeuces]

Hello, 

I have completed my first hourly contract on Upwork. However,  the client is not willing to pay the full amount. The hours billed are 8 hours and she's only offering to pay 3 hours over claims that she was only able to track 2 hours from her side. 

We were in communication throughout the project. All the work is uploaded under my diary where she could view and request changes. She has told me that if I want the project to end well, I should accept her offer.

I have tried to give her a counter offer of at least paying for half of the hours worked,  she's now unresponsive. What should I do in this case? If I dispute it, will she be allowed to leave a negative review that will affect my ratings? Before I forget, she had set a limit of 40hrs. 

Regards

[lysis10]

If you used tracker and followed the rules (memos and activity) then you should be fine. It's up to you if you refund her. She can file a dispute and a someone will look at your diary.

When my hourly contracts have gone south, I think they do go into my work diary and realize that they'll lose so they just close the contract. If she disappeared, I'd probably just leave her alone and see what happens.

[deeuces]

Yes. I used the diary and everything was automatically captured. She had set an option to manually enter the hours but something told to stay online when working on her project to ensure that everything is automatic. 

All I'm worried right now is if she'll  be able to leave a negative review when I file a dispute and it's ruled in my favor? OR can the negative review be removed in such an instance where it was applied unfairly?

[petra_r]

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Daniells W wrote:

All I'm worried right now is if she'll  be able to leave a negative review when I file a dispute and it's ruled in my favor? OR can the negative review be removed in such an instance where it was applied unfairly?

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You can't file a dispute. Only the client can. 

The feedback stands either way.  

[lysis10]

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Daniells W wrote:

Yes. I used the diary and everything was automatically captured. She had set an option to manually enter the hours but something told to stay online when working on her project to ensure that everything is automatic. 

All I'm worried right now is if she'll  be able to leave a negative review when I file a dispute and it's ruled in my favor? OR can the negative review be removed in such an instance where it was applied unfairly?

---

As Petra said, of course she can leave a review and you already know that it's bad. Nothing you can do, so you just have to accept it. There is a chance she just disappears, but all you can do is just wait for the hit and move past it.

[deeuces]

I think I will have to compromise for now and negotiate for a 5 STAR rating. That is a lesson to negotiate the maximum number of hours a client is willing to pay before accepting a proposal. Thanks for the feedback everyone.

[petra_r]

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Daniells W wrote:

I think I will have to compromise for now and negotiate for a 5 STAR rating. That is a lesson to negotiate the maximum number of hours a client is willing to pay before accepting a proposal. Thanks for the feedback everyone.

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You can not negotiate a refund for a 5 star feedback. That is called feedback manipulation and can get you kicked off the site.

On a slightly related note, your JSS is 60 percent and you advertise yourself as"the best presentation designer on Upwork"

Apart from the fact that you have no idea how good other presentation designers are, such a boast will turn off genuine clients and set totally unrealistic expectations in the mind of others, which you will not be able to meet.

I'd remove that false advertising, it does you more harm than good. Concentrate on explaining how you are a great choice without trying to put others down.

Your entire first art of your profile is just about how you are so much better than anyone else on Upwork. Apart from that being nauseating self-adulation, it is most offputting, considering your cheap rate and awful JSS, it does not foster trust.

[lysis10]

Inb4 I got suspended for NO REASON

[deeuces]

You and I know that there are alot of factors that go into determining the JSS.  I have only managed to secure a few jobs in Upwork and my profile is all about selling myself.  I have no intent of pulling anyone down. 

I'll consider your advice and remove the phrase due to the low JSS. May be when when I reach the apex I'll include it. 

The JSS was at 75%  but I cancelled one project due to the client giving additional labyrinthine instructions and did not want to raise the budget.  I can't fathom how one cancelled project chopped off 15% .

Thank you for the advice. 

[researchediting]

Daniells,

People have all sorts of notions about what affects JSS. Upwork shares some details and withholds others. We'll never have a formula.

Informed speculation suggests that one of the best standalone metrics for predicting a good JSS is "clients who would recommend you." That's something to keep in mind when a negotiation or contract goes sideways; if at all possible, you want to leave the client with the feeling they got value from the relationship and would feel confident recommending you.

Of course, some clients make it clear that they're not likely to recommend you, or show themselves to be people you'd never want to work with again. You just have to use your best judgment and professionalism.

Unfortunately, when you have relatively few jobs, the hit from any one can have a bit impact. I even see that sometimes with a lot of total jobs under my belt, because at any given time I might have only one contract working, whether it lasts a year or a quarter. Overall though, as you build up a body of work, the JSS structure tends to smooth out the rough patches.

Good luck with all that!

Best,

Michael

[researchediting · Accepted solution]

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Daniells W wrote:

I think I will have to compromise for now and negotiate for a 5 STAR rating. That is a lesson to negotiate the maximum number of hours a client is willing to pay before accepting a proposal. Thanks for the feedback everyone.

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That is not how hourly payment protection works. By hiring you hourly, the client agrees to pay for hours worked. When properly tracked by Upwork (as Petra has detailed), that payment is guaranteed. "Tracked on her end"? Please. Empty bluster. Cuts no ice with Upwork.

Upwork's terms would protect your payment if you would let them. You can neither control nor negotiate feedback. If you just ignore the threats and collect your money, you will be paid for your work. And that's what we're here for, isn't it? Then it will be the client who has violated terms of service by threatening feedback manipulation, and not you who has violated the terms by bargaining for manipulated feedback.

[deeuces]

Powerful response. I'll have to rethink my decision. 

[lysis10]

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Daniells W wrote:

Powerful response. I'll have to rethink my decision. 

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Don't use refund for 5 stars. If you want to refund, you can tell her that you feel badly for the way things worked out and would like to give her a refund minus the two hours as a good faith effort to make things right. You'd probably get a lot farther that way anyway.

[petra_r]

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Daniells W wrote:

Before I forget, she had set a limit of 40hrs. 

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What the limit was is irrelevant. Did the work take 8 hours? The limit is set to 40 by default unless the client changes it.

If your work diary is perfect (all time tracked, high activity levels, meaningful work memos and all screenshots showing your actively working on the client's project) you win the dispute if she opens one.

If one of the above does not apply, the client wins. Simple as that.

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Daniells W wrote:

If I dispute it, will she be allowed to leave a negative review that will affect my ratings?

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The client can leave feedback regardless. Feedback affects your rating, of course.

[purplepony]

Daniells, of course you'll also be able to leave her Feedback.  Assure that it's:  professional, honest, and short.  Best of luck!