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miltechhaseeb
Community Member

Client is very arrogant and he want refund because I am expensive.

Hello experts,

I am working with a client who had a very bad history with other freelancers. He invited me to the project we had a chat and video call and I told him how his project can be accomplished and I showed him my similar project too. He said I am expensive I reduced my hourly rate to $30 and he agreed and started an hourly contract.

Now after just a few days later with 10% progress in projects he start arguing with me and keep sending me blogs saying why didn't you use this technique and this this this. I keep telling and clarifying him, agree, and start again.

Now with 20% progress, he said my guts tell me the project won't work in production. I was amazed!! I told him (again) how the project would work. I said I can prepare a whole document to explain how my approach is even better.

Long story short -- he said I am expensive. 

Now he wants to close the project and get a refund just because I am expensive!!

What should I do?
Should I go for a dispute when he asks for a refund?
Would upwork listen to me?
Would getting a refund or dispute would impact my profile negatively?

He is driving me insane. Even I don't want to work with him now!

ACCEPTED SOLUTION
petra_r
Community Member


Muhammad H wrote:

I am working with a client who had a very bad history with other freelancers


Why did you accept the contract when you saw the bad history?

 


Muhammad H wrote:

 He said I am expensive I reduced my hourly rate to $30 


Never let a client make you lower your rate, but in fairness, you've never worked at a rate higher than that and have also worked at less than half that this year. Wise freelancers increase their rates incrementally. 

 


Muhammad H wrote:

What should I do?
Should I go for a dispute when he asks for a refund?


You're not the one who would dispute. The client would. It's an hourly contract, only the client can dispute.

 


Muhammad H wrote:

What should I do?
Should I go for a dispute when he asks for a refund?
Would upwork listen to me?


All Upwork will do if the client dispute is check your work diary. If you have tracked your hours with the tracker and strictly in line with the terms of the hourly protection, so had meaningful work memos and (!) good activity levels, you would win any dispute. If not (manual time or no or insufficient memos or poor activity levels) the client wins. It's as simple as that, basically.

 


Muhammad H wrote:

Would getting a refund or dispute would impact my profile negatively?


A refund or a dispute won't by themselves, no. But poor feedback from the client would obviously affect your JSS and/or your profile.

View solution in original post

14 REPLIES 14
petra_r
Community Member


Muhammad H wrote:

I am working with a client who had a very bad history with other freelancers


Why did you accept the contract when you saw the bad history?

 


Muhammad H wrote:

 He said I am expensive I reduced my hourly rate to $30 


Never let a client make you lower your rate, but in fairness, you've never worked at a rate higher than that and have also worked at less than half that this year. Wise freelancers increase their rates incrementally. 

 


Muhammad H wrote:

What should I do?
Should I go for a dispute when he asks for a refund?


You're not the one who would dispute. The client would. It's an hourly contract, only the client can dispute.

 


Muhammad H wrote:

What should I do?
Should I go for a dispute when he asks for a refund?
Would upwork listen to me?


All Upwork will do if the client dispute is check your work diary. If you have tracked your hours with the tracker and strictly in line with the terms of the hourly protection, so had meaningful work memos and (!) good activity levels, you would win any dispute. If not (manual time or no or insufficient memos or poor activity levels) the client wins. It's as simple as that, basically.

 


Muhammad H wrote:

Would getting a refund or dispute would impact my profile negatively?


A refund or a dispute won't by themselves, no. But poor feedback from the client would obviously affect your JSS and/or your profile.

"Why did you accept the contract when you saw the bad history?"

It all started here! He was nice when I talked to him over the video call.

"Never let a client make you lower your rate"
Thanks for letting me know! I'll keep my eyes open next time. 


" so had meaningful work memos and (!) good activity levels, you would win any dispute. If not (manual time or no or insufficient memos or poor activity levels) the client wins."

I didn't add memos but I kept him updated in chat!

re: “I didn't add memos but I kept him updated in chat”


In Upwork Payment Protection:

That doesn’t count.


Muhammad H wrote:

"Why did you accept the contract when you saw the bad history?"
It all started here! He was nice when I talked to him over the video call.!


NEVER accept a contract with a client who has such terrible history

 


Muhammad H wrote:

I didn't add memos but I kept him updated in chat!


If the client disputes, you will lose the dispute. What you wrote in chat is irrelevant.

The only good thing about that is that this will also remove the contract from your profile if everything is refunded.

"The only good thing about that is that this will also remove the contract from your profile if everything is refunded."

Silver lining... Thanks


Muhammad H wrote:

"Why did you accept the contract when you saw the bad history?"

It all started here! He was nice when I talked to him over the video call.

"Never let a client make you lower your rate"
Thanks for letting me know! I'll keep my eyes open next time. 


" so had meaningful work memos and (!) good activity levels, you would win any dispute. If not (manual time or no or insufficient memos or poor activity levels) the client wins."

I didn't add memos but I kept him updated in chat!


I was also very careless about memos at the beginning, but one day I got a contract on hold. Everything ended up well and my logged hours were billed in full, but they were reviewed in detail and I got a warning from Upwork's staff concerning the memos. It looks like they play a key role when reviewing the work diary.

You should ALWAYS write a small memo (a brief title) of what you are working on at that moment. Don't just use the project title and keep the same memo for the entire project.

Yeah, I never knew memos are that important. I was focusing on work and updating client chat, saying the client won't notice memos but turn out it is not for the client!

prestonhunter
Community Member

re: "He is driving me insane. I don't even want to work with him now!"

 

You are not required to.

tlbp
Community Member

"He said I am expensive I reduced my hourly rate to $30"

 

No job that starts this way will end well. In future, don't let your desire to be hired interfere with your common sense. 


Tonya P wrote:

"He said I am expensive I reduced my hourly rate to $30"

 

No job that starts this way will end well. In future, don't let your desire to be hired interfere with your common sense. 


It's more complicated. His profile rate is $50. The client wanted $30. OP has never worked for more than $16. So - we have a problem here. Did the client negotiate down or up? Should OP have insisted on a rate he never earned previously, not by a long shot? Is the profile rate just a thing on his wish-list? Is it realistic? Should he have widely different rates on the first page of his overview?

I think a lot went wrong here, not the least of all perception management of the freelancer's profile. 


Martina P wrote: The client wanted $30. OP has never worked for more than $16. So - we have a problem here.

That isn't true. The OPs biggest contract by far, making up half his total earnings, is at $30 an hour.

 

Hahah! I can never see somebody would totally ignore the whole post and crux and start discussing the hourly rate. 

Yeah, it is complicated when you totally skip my first listed project on my profile and start looking at my very first contract (a year old). LOL!

 

"Should OP have insisted on a rate he never earned previously, not by a long shot" 
I someone has worked at a lower rate, then a freelancer MUST NOT increase their rate because he never earned at this rate before. How romantic!


Muhammad H wrote:

Hahah! I can never see somebody would totally ignore the whole post and crux and start discussing the hourly rate. 


In fairness, it is a really bad idea to set your profile rate as dramatically higher than you are working at. Presumably the value of an hour of your time hasn't more than tripled in the last year. A more logical step after $30 would be $35 or thereabouts. Especially while the $16/hour contract is still plainly visible on the first page. It just looks all wrong.


Muhammad H wrote:

Hahah! I can never see somebody would totally ignore the whole post and crux and start discussing the hourly rate. 


 

Muhammad, the crux of the matter is he finds you too expensive and is confident that the project will not work in a production environment! 

 

Both of his assumptions may be incorrect, but that is what he believes and you failed to win his confidence. Or perhaps he is aware that the project will work fine and your rate is the best rate for the type of project you are working on, but being a twisted person, as it reflects in on his feedback, he found a loophole and noticed you did not record memos and he finds it as an opportunity to get whatever has been completed till now for free! 

 

So the key takeaways are: 

- Client or Freelancer can close the contract for any reason or for no reason at all, whoever closes the contract will have to bear the burden of this action in a few cases. Like letting go of escrow money to the other party! 

 

- Never send a proposal or accept offers from a low-rated client, seriously what were you thinking? 1* rated client? There is also feedback from another freelancer about the client scamming him, running away with his code?

 

- Protect yourself before starting the work, Auto track time, take memos, ensure milestones are funded and activated before starting the work! 

 

There is a lesson for you, me, and others in this and we should try not to repeat the mistakes you did! 

 

Like most experienced freelancers here pointed out, if it goes to dispute you will lose. So do not spend too much time & energy defending yourself, instead focus on wining new contracts! 

 

Bets of luck! 

 

 

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