Client made a mistake with contract, closed i...

b_mamanov · ‎12-05-2020

Hello rich people! I just wondering, will the contract ended by the client (because of a mistake) and rehired me again somehow change my JSS?

I've sent a proposal for an interior design job. The client and I have agreed on a 450$ for the whole project. After the client sends me an offer. The budget was 450$ but the first milestone was 10$ and was named "start". By the way, the client has good reviews and 90k+ spend on Upwork.

I am new to Upwork, but I've spent some time reading the discussions about clients not paying the rest of the amount shown on "budget", and paid only the milestone. I was worried about it. I asked the client to put the full amount in the escrow to start the project. by the way, the client was telling me that I should not ask for this and client should solve to pay me or not. This was not clear to me. Finally, the client added a new milestone with the remaining amount. But I saw that money wasn't funded, which means it's not protected by Upwork. I was asked once more to put money in the escrow. The client told me that this is the only way how to solve this problem, and she said that she can cancel the contract and rehire me with another contract with full money in escrow. I told the client that closed contracts may affect my JSS. But the client just canceled the contract and started the new one.

My question is canceled contract will affect my JSS or not? Thank you for reply.

robin_hyman · ‎12-05-2020

Contracts that end without payment exchanged will affect your JSS. There is nothing you can do about it right now except try to win more projects and close them with a positive review.

In the future, do not accept a project until the terms you pre-negotiated are reflected in escrow.

Good luck!

petra_r · ‎12-05-2020

Robin H wrote:
Contracts that end without payment exchanged will affect your JSS.

Only if they were closed with poor private feedback, these days. However, I can't see that client having been particularly thrilled...

Unfortunately the OP really mismanaged that contract quite spectacularly. I am surprised the client even had the infinite patience to create a new contract.... Most clients would have cancelled, left poor feedback and then moved on to the nexxt freelancer on their shortlist.

b_mamanov · ‎12-06-2020

May be someone from Upwork help center can help me or at least reply to this message?

prestonhunter · ‎12-06-2020

re: "May be someone from Upwork help center can help me or at least reply to this message?"

This is the Community Forum. This is not the Upwork Help Center.

Maybe an Upwork employee will indeed participate in this thread. But they are not obligated to do so. You should understand that the help provided by Upwork users who are not employees is typically all that one needs.

If you want to create a Help Desk ticket, then you are welcome to do so. But I don't recommend it. You don't need that.

b_mamanov · ‎12-25-2020

Hello, people. I've asked here a question before, so this is a new update.

My name is Bakhtiyar. I am an architect and interior designer. I found a job for 450$ in interior design visualization. As I wrote in my last post here, the client created a job with 450$ budget, and the first milestone was named "start" with 10$. I told the client that I have started and I need to have the full amount in the escrow. The client doesn't want to pay me the first milestone and has canceled the contract. But I told the client, that canceled contracts will affect my JSS, she wrote to me that it will not and canceled the contract. After this client just rehired me with the full amount in escrow. After a few days after the first canceled contract I saw, that I have only 79% JSS on my profile. I started working. I have created a model, textures, views, and mood. All the time I was sending the client previews. We had 2 revisions, and I had almost finished the project. Once the client told me, that she urgently needs high-quality renders in 2 hours, and if I will not produce them then she will cancel the contract. It is impossible to do. 4 high-quality images in 2 hours. After that, the client asked me to send her a full 3D model with textures and archives. I did it. After a few hours client has canceled the contract again. I didn't approve the money refund, as I have been working on this project and almost have it done, and the final deadline was after 4 days. I started the dispute. The client is a designer company, and this company has 2 owners. I was working with a female owner. When I started the dispute, the male owner wrote to me. He asked me: "Which is your main concern your Upwrok reputation or to get the money?" That means he wanted to say, that if I will not close the dispute they will leave me bad feedback. I told them that I don't trust them since they already ruin my JSS score with fast and bad decisions. Finally, they gave me the last revisions and I have created the final version. The client told me that they will provide me a good review, and they liked my work. After two weeks I saw that my JSS have changed again by 63%. I don't know if they gave me bad private feedback or they forgot about providing me feedback. I wrote to them that my Upwork JSS has decreased again and after this client gave me 5 stars and a review. This was a week ago and I don't have this review on my page, as well as my JSS score, didn't increase.
I don't understand how the JSS score works. And this is unfair for me, as one client just has ruined my Upwork reputation for nothing. From the last client's response, I understood, that they hired another freelancer to do this job for less price, using my 3D model with all textures, cameras, and mood. That's why they have asked me to send them a full 3d model with archives and canceled the contract right away.
I feel sad because I have 63% JSS and I don't want to work in Upwork anymore (at least I don't have any chances with other freelancers that have a 90%+ rating). Because it's really unfair. My Upwork carrier just has been ruined by one client. I know that Upwork can't help me with this issue, I just want to tell you this sad story and probably post it on the internet blog/youtube, or another social media. Since I have all proofs that I have done the job very well and on time, also the client told me himself that work is done perfectly and he likes it. Also, the client confirms that it was his mistake that he canceled the first contract without any reason. With the second contract, the client wanted to save money and took my ready 3D model and gave it to another freelancer with a low price and canceled the contract.

Due to the pandemic a lot of workers choose freelance jobs on the internet, I will post this on social media, probably this will take public attention and will save people from a similar issue that I have. Maybe then Upwork will try to change this stupid JSS calculation or don't allow the client to close the contract by himself, without asking the freelancer, as this will affect the JSS score. Thank you.

2a05aa63 · ‎12-25-2020

> But I told the client, that canceled contracts will affect my JSS

You were right, that cancelled contract did cost you your JSS.

>After this client just rehired me

After a client already destoyed your JSS, they will do it again. Unless you are ok with that, don't accept work from them.

>It is impossible to do.

This is something you need to communicate before you start a contract. and if they change the requirments mid job, you should leave it in the feedback.

>client gave me 5 stars and a review.
Most likely they left a bad private review, and since this is the biggest contract you have - it will have the biggest impact.

Maybe the mods could overlook your situation, because the first contract was closed "by mistake", and a new one was reopened.

petra_r · ‎12-25-2020

Viacheslav K wrote:
> But I told the client, that canceled contracts will affect my JSS
You were right, that cancelled contract did cost you your JSS.

He wasn't, and it would only have had an effect iif the client left bad private feedback.

Cancelled contracts with no feedback have no effect anymore at all.

2a05aa63 · ‎12-25-2020

Good to know.

BojanS · ‎12-25-2020

Hi Bakhtiyar,

I'm sorry to hear about your experience with this client. I understand it's frustrating to see your JSS decrease. Please note that both public star rating and private feedback are included in JSS calculation and may cause the score to change. While the parties won't be able to provide public feedback on a contract that didn't have any payments, they can still provide private feedback. If the client provides positive private feedback on a contract with no earnings, that contract will be excluded from JSS. If the client specifies in their feedback that the contract had a negative outcome, that will be counted in the score. Here is the help article for more information.

Since clients' feedback counts in JSS, communicating in a timely and professional manner as well as setting the expectations correctly are important. To avoid canceled contracts, it's recommended that freelancers discuss the job with the client during the interview stage and only accept the offer if they have all the necessary information, terms and materials to start working on the contract.

It's entirely possible for freelancers to improve their JSS and we've seen some examples of that here in the Community. As long as you do great work for your clients and receive great feedback, your score will climb. For more tips, please see "How Can I improve my score?" section in this help article.

Thank you!

~ Bojan

b_mamanov · ‎12-25-2020

I don't find this answer somehow helpful to me. I've described everything, even the client understands that the JSS score has some dumb calculation, and it's unfair for freelancers, but you still telling me that I have to improve my JSS. Why I should do it? I provided everything in time, the client was satisfied, and the first contract canceled by mistake.

1. Why the client can cancel the contract by himself? Why there is no help from the Upwork team, to avoid these issues?

Why if the client cancels the contract, leaves poor private feedback, which I can't see, just rehired me? It's not my problem, that client has some problems, also why clients (companies) have few people working in one account? The female whom I worked with, in the first contract has some problems with kids or something and she wanted to change milestones fast, and became nervous or something and left me poor feedback. I didn't see it and accepted the second contract, and again she left me poor feedback.

2. Why should I just accept it and try to increase my JSS, when I did everything on time?

3. Why there is no help from Upwork center, that client canceled the second contract and wanted to get the job done cheaper? Even when I had dispute, the client wrote for the Upwork dispute center that everything is done perfectly, he likes the work, and after it, he can leave poor feedback? This is just a dumb system.

When the male owner of the company (client) is satisfied and wrote everywhere that the job was done perfectly, the female owner just can leave me bad feedback after it?

If there are problems in the company, why I have to get 63% of JSS?

Please do not write me automatic answers, which is not helpful, they are only for imagination, that Upwork team does care about the freelancers. If you really want to help me, then ask me for proof that the contractor made a mistake and ask him if he agrees, just delete this contract.

Thank you

petra_r · ‎12-25-2020

Bakhtiyar M wrote:
you still telling me that I have to improve my JSS. Why I should do it?

You don't have to. You don't properly understand how the JSS works and you completely mismanaged those contracts.

If you are sure that you are not capable of working your way back to a decent JSS, simply close your account.

Bakhtiyar M wrote:
they are only for imagination, that Upwork team does care about the freelancers.

That's not how it works. You don't need Upwork to "care" about you. Upwork is not your mummy or your teacher. They are not there to "care" - They run a business. So do you. So go and run your business effectively and professionally.

b_mamanov · ‎12-25-2020

Petra, you are not an Upwork help center, no one cares about what you say. I am an Upwork client also because I am paying 20% of fees on each contract. A lot of people nowadays contact with these problems. I don't want you to help me, I am just telling my story and want to have public attention on this issue to help people avoid these problems.

I got these problems from people like you. Big companies, who earn a lot of money just don't care about freelancers like me. They just can close a contract in one second, and they leave poor feedback, not because I didn't provide my job, I did, but because no one will see it, just to make someone bad think.

And also don't tell me what to do, if you are bored and everything in your life is only this community page, leave bad comments for yourself and get a life.

Thank you.

lysis10 · ‎12-25-2020

The initial mistake was to accept a contract and then demand escrow. Next time, tell them to escrow it all before you accept the offer. They have to retract and recreate the offer, I think. At least, that's what my clients do.

b_mamanov · ‎12-25-2020

Do you know, the contract was for 450$, the first milestone was 10$. I have asked the client, why first milestone was 10$, she told me, that this is just symbolic to start. I have agreed with that and accepted the contract. She didn't know how this program works, and through that, she will change the amount later. She wrote to me like that. I don't see this as somehow strange. I've accepted the contract and have started working. The client wanted to change the amount in milestone and couldn't. After that she told me that the only way is to cancel the contract and start a new one. I told her that it will damage my JSS, she wrote me, it will not and closed the contract and I think left poor feedback (I didn't saw it) and created a new job. The client fully accepts that it's his mistake.

prestonhunter · ‎12-25-2020

There is nothing wrong with a client setting up a $10 milestone.

That is symbolic of the client wanting you to do ten dollars worth of work.

lysis10 · ‎12-25-2020

Bakhtiyar M wrote:
Do you know, the contract was for 450$, the first milestone was 10$. I have asked the client, why first milestone was 10$, she told me, that this is just symbolic to start. I have agreed with that and accepted the contract. She didn't know how this program works, and through that, she will change the amount later. She wrote to me like that. I don't see this as somehow strange. I've accepted the contract and have started working. The client wanted to change the amount in milestone and couldn't. After that she told me that the only way is to cancel the contract and start a new one. I told her that it will damage my JSS, she wrote me, it will not and closed the contract and I think left poor feedback (I didn't saw it) and created a new job. The client fully accepts that it's his mistake.

ok, then I guess this is an issue with a new freelancer and new client, but it's strange that a new client would call $10 symbolic. You can still tell a client that the whole thing needs to be escrowed before you accept the offer. So, yes, it is strange and you have to learn to recognize these things. The only thing you can count on is what is in escrow, so that's what you have to pay attention to in an offer.

Client made a mistake with contract, closed it and rehired me