erxhan
Member

Client not respecting agreement

Hi everyone!
I would like your opinion in something.
A few weeks ago i started a job with a client for a logo design for 150$ and the client was new and opened a milestone of 50$ where i provided around 8 png samples but without final files.
I expected her to chose one version and start the second milestone of 100$ so i could deliver the final files and she went offline for like 2 weeks and today she came back and told me that she needed to get her client to qualify her thoughts about the designs and she told me that it was great working with me anyway.
I dont want the contract to be stopped for a reason. Since i became top rated i have set a minimum price for logo designs which is 150$ and i dont want new clients to see that i designed a logo for 50$ and this would harm my negotiations.
Anyway if she closes the contract:
Does closing contract midway harms my job success score?
What would you people suggest me to do in this case. I wouldnt like to start disputes as honestly i dont like such things but should it be considered as an option because anyway i didnt delivered her final files.

19 REPLIES 19
versailles
Member

Erxham, by delivering something, you agreed that this something was worth the founds in the escrow for this milestone. You cannot enter into a dispute because the client has respected the agreement.

 

If your minimum fee for a logo is $150, then you should not start working as long as there is not $150 in the escrow.

 

There is nothing that you can do at this point.

 

 

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

re: "Anyway if she closes the contract: Does closing contract midway harms my job success score?"

 

No. Your Job Success Score is affected by the client's satisfaction with her experience working with you.

 

It has nothing to do with your expections or your predictions of the future which didn't come true.

 

Your JSS has nothing to do with how much was discussed as a total budget versus how much you actually earned from a contract.

 

If you earn NOTHING from a contract, that's bad. But if you earn SOMETHING, then all is good as far as JSS is concerned.

re: "...because anyway i didnt delivered her final files..."

 

So what?

 

You delivered something to her. She paid you for it.

That's the contract. That's the milestone. It's over.

 

If she wants you to do more work, then she'll set up a new milestone or set up a new contract.

 

If the client closes the contract now, she has done nothing wrong.

 

Ernest Cline wrote the novel "Ready Player One." Steven Spielberg is making it into a movie. It doesn't mean Earnest Cline gets to star in it too. Spielberg will hire somebody else for that.

goldenseal
Member

You're going to get replies from some freelancers that don't understand that there is no way to only deliver "half" of a logo design. A client will set up milestones with one being a draft, and one being the final design. If they're happy with the draft, what's the impetus for them to set up the final milestone and pay more?

 

Watermark your deliverables. You can't depend on this **Edited for Community Guidelines** milestone system in which the clients hold all the power. That way, when the client has paid the agreed-upon amount, you give them the unwatermarked file and everyone's happy.

Nope. I always tell people escrow all up front. Never do it that way. It's $150. Not enough money for someone to need it separated into multiple payments.

I think Joshua has some good insight and tips.

 

But watermarking draft files or preliminary design files won't guarantee that a client will set up additional milestones and pay you more money.

 

A client might see your designs, not like any of them, and work with somebody else.

 

A client could like your designs and decide to finish them herself, or have another freelancer finish them.

 

None of which is a basis for a dispute or argument.

As i have mentioned i dont like to start disputes 
and i agree with Joshua a logo cant be delivered half and even watermarking it isnt a good idea.
Once on another freelance website i sent a rough draft to a client prior to hiring me and the guy imediately close the job and started another where he was asking people to convert a png to a ai file 
and watermarking is kinda the same as this.
As Many suggested next time i will do no work if i dont see full amount in a single milestone 
Thanks everyone

kat303
Member


@erxhan M wrote:

Hi everyone!
I would like your opinion in something.
A few weeks ago i started a job with a client for a logo design for 150$ and the client was new and opened a milestone of 50$ where i provided around 8 png samples but without final files.
I expected her to chose one version and start the second milestone of 100$ so i could deliver the final files and she went offline for like 2 weeks and today she came back and told me that she needed to get her client to qualify her thoughts about the designs and she told me that it was great working with me anyway.
I dont want the contract to be stopped for a reason. Since i became top rated i have set a minimum price for logo designs which is 150$ and i dont want new clients to see that i designed a logo for 50$ and this would harm my negotiations.
Anyway if she closes the contract:
Does closing contract midway harms my job success score?
What would you people suggest me to do in this case. I wouldnt like to start disputes as honestly i dont like such things but should it be considered as an option because anyway i didnt delivered her final files.


 

Your mistake was to allow only %50 for that milestone, especially if you have a minimum price of $150. THAT should have been funded for the entire job with just 1 final milestone. or if there are milestones the first one should be funded fully for your minimum and any other milestones should be funded above what your minimum is.

 

You really can't start a dispute, because you delivered what was requierd for the 1st milestone, and you agreed on the price for that milestone. So, there's nothing to dispute. You delivered, she paid. You didn't deliver the final files, and she didn't fund anything for them.

tlsanders
Member

OP, I totally get your concern. I recently started a contract to write 14 web pages for a client but only ended up writing three of the pages (the agency had inadvertantly sent the same job to two freelancers). Although the client gave me a good rating and started me immediately on a different project, I'm not happy about the fact that the job displays on my profile as "rewrite 14 web pages" and has a total payment of $225. 

 

Nothing to be done about it, though. With enough other jobs at more appropriate pricing, it shouldn't be a problem.

 

I don't believe that the escrow suggestion that you're getting from others here would have changed your situation one bit--even if the job were fully funded, if it was ended before completion, you wouldn't have been entitled to full payment.

ehsrost
Member

Exhan, Tiffany,

If it is important to you to a partially paid job to not appear in you profile history, I would suggest you to refund all earnings back to the client. In this case the job will be removed completely (but the JSS will still be affected according to the private feedback you got from the client)

Probably I would do that way in such situation.

Oooh, I would never set up a milestone for a logo. If coming up with the idea is 90% of the work (and it often is when it comes to logos), why would you only ask for 33% of the price for delivering all those ideas? And you delivered what, 6, 8 concepts? That's mad.

 

But you know what, if the client uses the PNG without getting the vector files, then I guess they got what they paid for.Cat LOL


@Briana R wrote:

why would you only ask for 33% of the price for delivering all those ideas?

 

 I doubt the OP asked for the milestones to be set up that way. When a client offers a contract, THEY decide how they want to divide the project up and how much money to attach to each milestone. Unless I'm missing something, there's no option for the freelancer to propose an amended contract. Which is stupid, because the freelancer is probably much more familiar with the process.

 


@Joshua T wrote:
 

 I doubt the OP asked for the milestones to be set up that way. When a client offers a contract, THEY decide how they want to divide the project up and how much money to attach to each milestone. Unless I'm missing something, there's no option for the freelancer to propose an amended contract. Which is stupid, because the freelancer is probably much more familiar with the process.

 


 There certainly is a way.

 

Client sends offer.

Me: Sorry, the full amount must be funded. 

 

Either the client can withdraw the offer and then redo it or I will reject it.


@Jennifer M wrote:

@Joshua T wrote:
 

 I doubt the OP asked for the milestones to be set up that way. When a client offers a contract, THEY decide how they want to divide the project up and how much money to attach to each milestone. Unless I'm missing something, there's no option for the freelancer to propose an amended contract. Which is stupid, because the freelancer is probably much more familiar with the process.

 


 There certainly is a way.

 

Client sends offer.

Me: Sorry, the full amount must be funded. 

 

Either the client can withdraw the offer and then redo it or I will reject it.


Very true. For the well-established, highly sought-after folks on this platform, that's great. For someone not so entrenched, it's an uncomfortable gamble to say to a prospective client "my way or the highway". 


@Joshua T wrote:

Very true. For the well-established, highly sought-after folks on this platform, that's great. For someone not so entrenched, it's an uncomfortable gamble to say to a prospective client "my way or the highway". 


 Nobody in the numerous times someone has tried to pull the 50% down thing has anyone ever said "nvm forget it." 

 

Grow a spine, people. Come on. Upwork gives you the ability to drive the way you work. Use it. They give you the escrow system. It's great. You have the ability to use it in the best way that works for you, which is always having the full amount in escrow. Good clients aren't going to argue over escrowing $150.

 

If someone won't escrow $150, they were never planning to pay you anyway.


@Joshua T wrote:

@Jennifer M wrote:

@Joshua T wrote:
 

 I doubt the OP asked for the milestones to be set up that way. When a client offers a contract, THEY decide how they want to divide the project up and how much money to attach to each milestone. Unless I'm missing something, there's no option for the freelancer to propose an amended contract. Which is stupid, because the freelancer is probably much more familiar with the process.

 


 There certainly is a way.

 

Client sends offer.

Me: Sorry, the full amount must be funded. 

 

Either the client can withdraw the offer and then redo it or I will reject it.


Very true. For the well-established, highly sought-after folks on this platform, that's great. For someone not so entrenched, it's an uncomfortable gamble to say to a prospective client "my way or the highway". 


It is only through willingness to take that gamble that one becomes well-established and sought after. You can't build a successful business by letting others define the terms. 


@Joshua T wrote:

Very true. For the well-established, highly sought-after folks on this platform, that's great. For someone not so entrenched, it's an uncomfortable gamble to say to a prospective client "my way or the highway". 


If a new freelancer on Upwork don't do this, meaning if they let the clients dictate what they will pay, the new freelancer may get work, but not money.

 

Yes, getting established takes time and it is stressful because you don't want to scare this rare client off. But more often than not you will not scare them off if you stand by your rates. And if you do scare them off, you only scared off someone who wanted to take advantage of you.

 

You can decide to undersell yourself or to let cheap clients take advantage of you in the hope to get jobs, but if you take this path at the beginning, it may prove hard to go back later.

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

re: "I doubt the OP asked for the milestones to be set up that way. When a client offers a contract, THEY decide how they want to divide the project up and how much money to attach to each milestone."

 

As a freelancer, I write all of my fixed-price contracts.

 

Clients discuss a project with me. I offer hourly and fixed-price options. If they want to use a fixed-price contract, I send them the description of what will be done, via messaging. They copy and paste it into the client-side interface for creating a fixed-price contract, and they send me a Hire offer.

erxhan
Member

Im new to online freelancing and honestly still dont know perfectly how it works but I dont have a problem to say to the client "my way or the highway" as I do this on my established work oustide upwork and it perfectly works and since i reached the top rated status i worked this way regarding prices but never minded if clients set milestones as they like as long as the milestones together would make the final price i was asking for.
Lesson learned this time. 
Thanks everyone