Client's attitude

maru4ka · ‎07-14-2022

Hi, dearest Upwork collegues.

I have just come across some thing I am in doubt with and would like to know your experience and thoughts.

I had a great long-term client, with whom we had several quite bit projects. I treated him as perspective as this was really great chance for me to learn more and upgrade my skills, that is really useful in my career.

As for payment I proposed very reasonable fees and both seemed to be satisfied with it.

This is some kind of agency, where there are a lot of freelancers hired, and I am only one of them.

They haven't assighned me any job for the last 2-3 months.

Suddently, client wrote me about some short project, and when I informed him about my usual prices. he proposed lower price. And the question of that difference is just...20$...(Why I need to fight for 20$...?...)This is not a poor client. He can afford sometimes paying hourly the price (for another kind of job), that I will receive for this project, working more than 8 hours. I said that you are welcome for the job, because I respected the client and we had a long history of working together. But his treatment really surprized me. Besides, he asked for a job that actually appeared to take more time as he offered initially (that is obvious from the material I received. So, he really wanted to cheat me). I showed him lenght of the material and asked to pay, but such situations are disgusing. Didn't expect this from this client, really.

We were in good relationships, and I was treated well.

I am just wondering, why I am treated so cheap, altought we spent really great long-term projects together. It is obvious, that client wants to make me cheap, because first he proposed extremly low price (on the market it is twice higher). Then he argues for the difference just of 20$....(is it a money to argue with a freelancer with quite long job history...?)

I feel now very very bad. Very dissappointed. I do not like fighting like at the vegetables market. This is just disgusting.

I am really thinking just to close the contract without any explanations after my current task will be successfully completed, because I do not want to work with such clients in the future.

I do not respect such treatment.

However, my doubt is that they might assign me really interesting projects I am highly interested in. And the team is really great. So, there are some things to lose.

Besides, I noticed that clients, who have a tendency to pay lower, may write not good feedback in case something went not as expected. So I do not want any problems with that too.

Just want to hear your thoughts, what is better to choose.

Mainly the problem is that I do not want to work any more with people, who want to cheat me and treat like a cheap help for sometimes.

BTW, there is a category of clients "cheap help for sometimes". Such kind of clients start contracts as usual, but then either disappear either assign me some few work for sometimes. I do not understand that, like why there is a need to hire me if you have other workers and I am just for sometime. How I can graduade from clients who is looking for just for "sometimes help", even if it is written in the contract about regular work. I am satisfied with my hourly rate as for now, this is not extremely cheap, but not high. And that is ok for me. But I am not ok with 2-3h of work per month or two. And it is not obvious at the beginning of the work usually. This is just a tendency I noticed for many clients after we finished few projects.

deardipu · ‎07-15-2022

Mariia,

Re:"Mainly the problem is that I do not work any more with people, who want to cheat me and treat like a cheap help for sometimes."

It is not a problem, it is the perfect solution (my opinion haha).

Re:"It is obvious, that client wants to make me cheap, because first he proposed extremly low price (on the market it is twice higher)."

Upwork gives you freedom to choose clients according to your wish. As you thought that price was too low for that task and you were not happy with that budget, you would decline the offer.

maru4ka · ‎07-15-2022

No, I first accepted it, but I was shocked that client, who treat me well, acted like that.

I accepted because I really want to do other projects that this agency proposed me in the past.

But then I was in a doubt. I realized what this is unfair and clients is not the best.

That is why I am writing here to know different opinions

This is not somekind of new client came and proposed me some unfair rates and I just refused.

This is a client with whom I have been working more than 1.5 year, around 2 years even.

So I am just really surprized.

The question is I am going to close the contract. But not sure if I lose something, because this agency has really great projects I potentially might be assigned.

colettelewis · ‎07-15-2022

Mariia,

I think you are overthinking this situation. As you seem to have had a good working relationship with this client, I would try discussing it first with him and explain that you cannot drop your price for any further projects, but that if he cannot afford to keep paying your rate, you will quite understand if he wishes to close the contract.

Don't close the contract yourself at this stage, and certainly don't close it if you are still owed any money. If your client is a vengeful sort of person, he might give you poor feedback, if he does close the contract. Be prepared for this, and if it is really bad, you can use your top-rated perk to have it removed.

It is very hard losing a regular client, but it is how freelancing works, so it's best to try and build up a client base, which is not easy, even for the most established freelancers.

maru4ka · ‎07-15-2022

Thank you, Nichola!

Yes, you are right. This situation has some risk for me as client is quite impulsive.

As a minimum, I asked him to pay for additional work that he didn't announce me. But as for further cooperation, I will certainly explain about my rates and offer him an option to choose other freelaners as well.

That is why I wrote this here, becase really I think my desicion should be well-thought.

Well, as for long-term client. it looks like they are not interested in me so much any more, as there weren't any big projects for last half a year. That is why I am twice in a doubt whether it worth working together and every time explain about real market prices.

Thank you for your opinion, it is really helps my to organize my thoughts.

ps btw, I mean close the contract after all tasks are completed, no any active projects.

roberty1y · ‎07-15-2022

This is a client with whom I have been working more than 1.5 year, around 2 years even.

So I am just really surprized.

This seems to be a client for whom you worked at $5 an hour, because that's the only contract of that length I see on your profile page. Normally, you work for a higher rate than that.

If a client sees you're willing to drop below what your normal rate is, then it's not surprising that he thinks he can push it down even further. I think you should tell him to pay what you normally charge him, or you quit working for him.

maru4ka · ‎07-15-2022

no, Robert, this is not that 5$ contact (that was just start of my career here and first long-term contract with regular work, that is why I affored this), but for sure I do not work any more with such rates.

that is another case. This is hourly paid contact, but just this particular project client wished to paid as fixed one with low price, ignoring actual time spent on it. That is the problem for me.

Previously I have done for him the same work but with normal payment per hour.

roberty1y · ‎07-15-2022

Sorry, I thought it must be the $5 an hour contract. But anyway, you need to keep a minimum rate, otherwise it's just a race to the bottom for cheap clients. People forget that the freelancer-client relationship is a business one, not a friendship. They'll push down your rate if you let them.

maru4ka · ‎07-15-2022

yes, exactly that is I am afaid of. They push my rates down. and since this is just a question of 20$ difference, client is doing this just for fun, but not because of extreme necessity (as average hourly rate for his other freelacers is double from my rate). Just because he wants to play with me. That is disgusting.

roberty1y · ‎07-15-2022

The best thing is to explain to him, in as civil a manner as possible, that you will not work for that rate. Don't make him mad, because you don't want bad feedback, although you can have this removed using your top rated perk.

maru4ka · ‎07-15-2022

I just asked to pay for the additional part he didn't mentioned until I received actual material. But as for the future I will clearly state my prices for such kind of job even if it is fixed. Or just close the contract, because I do not see any reason to work under such conditions any more ( Client did this once, he will do this again. That is for sure. Probably, someone of the lowest price freelancers tought him to act like this. But anyway.)

martina_plaschka · ‎07-15-2022

You are running a business.

What does the CEO of a company do when problems arise, when clients want the product at a lower price? Does he/she feel insulted and slam the door on the offending customer? Or does he/she use this opportunity to negotiate, point out the advantages of their product over the competition, and find a solution? Is he/she insulted that the customer tried to get a lower price? Are his/her feelings hurt, is he/she sulking in their office how bad the customers are?

Closing the contract without any communication is the worst thing you can do. I can picture the client leaving feedback about the bad attitude of the freelancer, who behaved very unprofessionally.

maru4ka · ‎07-15-2022

If this is a business and I am CEO, well, I prefer to do work in the well-paid segment.

I am not sure what I will do if I had long-term business partner to whom I trust, but suddently my partner starts expain me by his attitude that I am cheap and worth nothing. Well, I will feel like client knows other good proposals on the market. That's ok. I respect this. So I will advise him to find a place more suited for his requirements of payments etc.

I respect your thoughts about negotiations. That is really cool idea. Very wise. The problem is lost respect for this person, really.

Btw, you gave me really good idea, thank you. I will fairly explain what I think and what my rates are.

ps btw, I mean close the contract after all tasks are completed, no any active projects.

prestonhunter · ‎07-15-2022

re: "that is another case. This is hourly paid contact, but just this particular project client wished to paid as fixed one with low price, ignoring actual time spent on it. That is the problem for me."

Well... no.

We never want to switch from hourly to fixed-price contracts unless we know absolutely that we are going to be earning far more money that way. Generally speaking, that's a hard "no" if a client asks to do that.

maru4ka · ‎07-15-2022

Hi, Preston, you are absolutely right.

Actually, you know, hourly payment should be around 120$ for all (just becase I thought this is a very very good client), but client insisted on fixed price for 100$ (was there any matter to do that..?). And after I received material, I noticed that actual volume is for 140$ min. So, after Upwork fees I will get 80$ for 225$ market price project.

I am really shocked. Minimum market price would be 225$. So I feel like a slave.

Just because I didn't follow initial hourly paid contract form.

So you are absolutely right.