Client that asking for extra work

[alona_korobka]

Hello, guys! 

Help me please, it is my third order on Upwork, and each time I face a situation when a client wants me to do extra work.

The client came to me through the Project Catalog. He needed a logo for the company which creates cat food.
He didn't have any direct requirements for the logo and sent few links to sites for inspiration, he said he likes the style of those sites. There were cartoonish characters on both sites.
He also said there should be preferable Cat face/silhouette, Paw Vegan/Vegetables Nature in the logos, which I included to them.

He said I have the freedom in creating logos and he doesn't have any examples of what logo would he like to get in the end.

I created 6 logos as was dealt with in the contract, 4 of them are cartoonish, one is natural and one is modern style.
When I sent the results of my work to the client he said, all logos are not what he wants. He also mentioned he already has a logo, but he is not satisfied with it. He said he didn't want to give me his logo at the start of my work, as he wanted to see what logos I will create.

Now he wants me to create another 6 logos but he wants them to be in the style of the logo which he already had.
He wrote he is sorry that I have to do double work.

I understand he might not do that on purpose, but it is unfair because it turned out he already knew what he wanted from the beginning.
Can I ask him to pay extra for new logos?
What should I do?

[kfarnell]

Yes.

Fixed price?

Whether he's trying to rip you off or not, it's usually better to respond as if you *know* he's honest. It affects your tone and makes it harder for some people to rip you off, even if that's what they intended. 

So you either say that once he's paid for the current work and set up a milestone for this work, you'll get onto it and your quote for that work is $XX.

Or you say that you understand and it doesn't appear that you're a good fit and you wish him luck in finding someone who'll better suit his needs. Then press the button for payment.

And wait. 

While it's possible he might be difficult, he also might be all bluster. You don't know yet, so instead of assuming the worst, just follow the process and see what happens.

You can *always* use the magic word 'no'. 

[prestonhunter]

This is a real issue that ever fixed-price freelancer needs to think about and practice to get good at.

A lot of times this isn't because a client is a bad person. A client may simply not understand how fixed-price contracts work.

The time to handle this is at the very first sign of scope creep.

MOST clients will be completely fine with everything as long as you (the freelancer) explains to them exactly what they will receive for the contract, and explain when something is out of scope.

If a client has a difficult time grasping the concept, they STILL can't force you to work for free (do out-of-scope work). If a client is persistent or annoying about the topic, then as a freelancer you need to either:

a) stop working for the client entirely
[or]

b) work with the client only using hourly contracts

re: "Can I ask him to pay extra for new logos? What should I do?"

I would not ask him to "pay extra" for new logos.
I would do absolutely nothing that is outside of the original contract until the first contract is paid for and settled. AFTER THAT, I will be willing to discuss a new contract with the client.

[prestonhunter]

Here is an example (applies only to fixed-price contracts):

Client hired freelancer to create six logos mascot-style logos for each of 6 departments in the company.

Freelancer finished creating 4 of those logos.

Then client decided she does NOT WANT mascot-style logos. INSTEAD she wants emblem-style logos.

Question: Can the client ask the freelancer to CHANGE without paying more?

Answer: No.

What should the client do?
There are two acceptable options for the client:
a) Ask the freelancer to stop work on the current contract. Release all money in escrow. Ask the freelancer if she would be willing to do a new contract to create emblem-style logos.

[or]

b) Let the freelancer finish the current contract. Release all money in escrow. Ask the freelancer if she would be willing to do a new contract to create emblem-style logos.

Note that in both (a) and (b) above, the client PAYS THE SAME amount of money.

Question: If the freelancer has really not finished the original project, would it be acceptable for the client to ask to pay out the contract only PARTIALLY? For example, if the contract is for $600 for six logos, and the freelancer has only created four logos, could the client ask to pay only $400?

Answer: We are in a gray area here. It is very much NOT COOL if the client makes such a request. It would be best for the client to simply release all money in escrow and close the contract. Note that there is no way for a client to unilaterally FORCE a freelancer to accept a PARTIAL payment of escrow funds.

What should a FREELANCER do if she receives such a request? A freelancer who receives a request to refund a partial payment for a fixed-price milestone that is only partially done SHOULD work with the client and offer a fair compromise.

[alona_korobka]

Thank you for your answer, Preston!
The thing is that according to the original contract I should make 6 variants of logos (which I completed) and also I need to represent a mockup with a logo that the client will choose.
The client said none of the logos that I created is what he wants. Instead of that, he said he has an example of what he wants me to do. He used to have it before I started to work on logos but told me he doesn't have any preferences and I should create logos as I want.
Now he says I need to create another 6 logos for him.
But it can be an endless process and he can ask me to do another 6 new logos again and again.
What should I tell him?

[prestonhunter · Accepted solution]

re: "Now he says I need to create another 6 logos for him.
But it can be an endless process and he can ask me to do another 6 new logos again and again.
What should I tell him?"

You do NOT need to create another 6 logos for him.

I would tell him:

"Frank, if you would like me to create additional logos for you, then you may release payment on the current contract, and close the current contract, and we can set up a new hourly contract. I want to help you with your project, so I would be happy to do that. An hourly contract will provide you with the flexiblit you need to ask for anything related to logos. If you feel that none of the six logos I have created is what you want to move forward with, then I am willing to let you close the current contract while only releasing 80% of the amount in escrow.

This means that you may choose between these two options:
a) I will finish the current contract by providing the mockup with the logo you choose from the six variants

b) You may close the current contract immediately while releasing only 80% of the amount in escrow."

Alona:
This client needs to be given clear, firm options. This client does NOT dictate to you how you do your business. This client entered into a contract with you, and now he wants to completely oblliterate that contract. But because you are a nice and forgiving person, you are not calling him out on that and you are not getting angry at him. You are simply telling him what he may now do. He does not REALLY deserve options, but you are a very nice person. You are providing two very viable options to him.

At this point, you will not be "discussing" things with the client. You will not be negotiating with the client. You will definitely not be arguing with the client. The client will choose which of these two options he wants to proceed with. And that's pretty much it.

I the client says anything else, then just respond:

"Just choose option a or b and we can proceed from there."

Don't do any more work for the client until the client chooses an option.

[alona_korobka]

Thank you very much for your help!

[alona_korobka]

Thank you very much for your answer, Kim!
Yes, it is fixed price project.
The thing is as according to the Catalog Project, I also need to represent a mockup for the client and give him a logo that he will choose from 6 which I made in several formats of files. I can't do that because he will not choose any logo.
Also, this project has only one milestone. And I don't think I can add another.
In this case, if he will agree to pay for the work I have done, can I propose a new contract to the client?

[wlyonsatl]

Alona K.,

This client is clearly looking for free work.

And he's been dishonest with you, pretending he was hiring you to exercise your full creativity when he already had a good idea of what he liked but didn't tell you.

Tell him you'll be happy to do additional work under a separate (new) contract, but first he should release payment in full on the previous contract, whch you completed.

I suggest you try to avoid having him add a new milestone to the current contract. Make him close the current contract and then see what his feedback is. You won't be able to see his all-important private feedback, but that's always true. But if he closes the project and leaves negative public feedback, you'll then know whether you want to work for him again. Ideally you can wait to agree to the new contract until after the next bi-weekly calculation of your JSS, which will reflect the effect (if any) of his private feedback on your JSS. That will also tell you whether you want to work for him again.

None of this needs to be confrontational. You've performed; he should pay you. If he wants more work from you, he should pay for it. That's just two adults doing business together.

For all your future projects, think about how you can better define pre-contract what you will and what you will not do to complete each project and put all of that in writing. It's much easier to tell a client who wants free extra work while a project is under way to just say "No" when (s)he clearly agreed that that work is not part of the original agreement and will need to be added as additional paid work.

That doesn't mean you should not do a little extra work at no additional cost for every customer in the name of good  faith and future work. But a little extra and twice as much are not the same thing.

Good luck!

[alona_korobka]

Will, thank you very much for your help and instructions! We agreed with the client to close the contract, Also, according to the contract I needed to perform a mockup for the logo which he would choose, and in this case, when he doesn't like any of the logos which I made for him, we agreed he can release 80% of the escrow. He didn't leave feedback for me, but as you say I will wait and see if he left negative private feedback. 

[melikee]

I remember the time I closed my last fixed-price contract because of similar attitude, without getting the payment, and never accepted a fixed-price contract again as my field is also very subjective and clients change their requests often. I work pretty fast and feel more motivated working with hourly contracts...

[alona_korobka]

It seems a lot of clients act this way, this is my third contract on Upwork and the previous two were similar, clients changed their preferences several times and it occurred I did more work than it was dealt in the beginning, but I was afraid to say "no" to the clients because I thought they will leave bad feedback. You are right, it is better to choose hourly contracts. Thank you for your feedback!

[melikee]

You’re welcome!
I did the same thing at the beginning too.
Also I realized people tend to be more clear and explicit about their requirements for hourly contracts as any vague description would cause more time to be spent on the project.

[prestonhunter]

I believe that hourly contracts are always a fair and equitable way to arrange freelance work.

I understand that hourly contracts are not everybody's preferred method.

But hourly SHOULD be the method used any time that the work a client needs to be done is in any way vague or unpredictable.