Client won't close the contracts

criselenacris · ‎08-06-2019

Hi!

I have a client since January. This summer he had more projects and he opened 6 contracts, and all of them were funded a few times. Some of them were last funded in June, some in July (3 weeks ago). I asked him twice to close some of the contracts if we are done on those projects and I explained why they might affect me in the long term and he said he will but he didn't. This week I decided to close one of them (my JSS score has suffered twice in the past because of inactive contracts, but that time I did not know this), I explained to him why and asked for feedback, but no answer came from him. I will not close another one until September, but there are 5 more, plus I have another client who has never answered after I delivered the work (in May). What should I do? I am afraid that if I ask him one more time he will give me a bad review (or maybe 6 bad reviews), even though he was happy with my work (since I completed so many projects).

petra_r · ‎08-06-2019

Elena Cristina R wrote:
I asked him twice to close some of the contracts if we are done on those projects and I explained why they might affect me in the long term and he said he will but he didn't. This week I decided to close one of them (my JSS score has suffered twice in the past because of inactive contracts, but that time I did not know this)

I would suggest you just close one at a time, and in the future don't accept 6 contracts from the same client. Get the client to close one before accepting the next, or keep one client open where the client adds milestones.

It is most unlikely that any idle contracts had anything to do with any previous drop in JSS, it will have been private feedback. Neither idle contracts nor contracts that close without feedback have any effect as long as some (any) money was paid under them at some point.

I would hazard a guess you have some poor private feedback in your 1-year window, which was responsible for your previous JSS drop.

criselenacris · ‎08-06-2019

If it was a bad review, I have no idea who could have been. All my clients seemed happy with my work. Clients (and freelancers) should not be allowed to give 5 stars public reviews and a private review that lowers a score (the same time).

prestonhunter · ‎08-06-2019

re: "Clients (and freelancers) should not be allowed to give 5 stars public reviews and a private review that lowers a score (the same time)."

But clients ARE allowed to do this. So until that changes, it is a reality that freelancers need to be aware of.

criselenacris · ‎08-06-2019

Yes, I know they ARE allowed to tell me that everything was perfect even though in reality they were that disappointed with my work that they decided to ruin something I built in months. It is just not right. I do not understand why would they do this. In the end, I cannot see their feedback until I provide mine and after that, they can hire somebody else (there are enough available freelancers).

petra_r · ‎08-06-2019

Elena Cristina R wrote:
Yes, I know they ARE allowed to tell me that everything was perfect even though in reality they were that disappointed with my work that they decided to ruin something I built in months.

What do you mean "ruin something you built-in months?" - Do you think clients should not be allowed to leave honest private feedback about how they felt? How is that right? In that case, everyone would just have a 100% JSS and 5-star feedback average.

Elena Cristina R wrote:
I do not understand why would they do this.

I do. Ask clients what they often have do endure when they leave less than perfect 5 stars and freelancers pester them to change feedback, won't leave them alone, threaten them, beg, blackmail them, sabotage their websites, run their mouth all over the Internet etc etc etc. So that's why public feedback is mostly meaningless and we have private feedback.

Anyway, did looking at your private feedback percentage confirm what I said about idle jobs not having been the reason for your previous drops?

criselenacris · ‎08-06-2019

re: 'What do you mean "ruin something you built-in months?" - Do you think clients should not be allowed to leave honest private feedback about how they felt? How is that right? In that case, everyone would just have a 100% JSS and 5-star feedback average.'

I just said that if they are not happy with the result, they should ask me at least to review it, to give one chance to fix it. And after that, if they are really not happy with the provided results, at least I would know why I have a lower Jss.

criselenacris · ‎08-06-2019

re: 'I do. Ask clients what they often have do endure when they leave less than perfect 5 stars and freelancers pester them to change feedback, won't leave them alone, threaten them, beg, blackmail them, sabotage their websites, run their mouth all over the Internet etc etc etc. So that's why public feedback is mostly meaningless and we have private feedback.'

I have never thought about these possibilities. Aren't these violations of Upwork Policy? I mean they could have their account suspended.

petra_r · ‎08-06-2019

Elena Cristina R wrote:
If it was a bad review, I have no idea who could have been.

That's kind of the idea of private feedback, but I have to say that out of my nearly 250 contracts, I always, ALWAYS knew when a contract did not go as perfectly as it might have...

Elena Cristina R wrote:
Clients (and freelancers) should not be allowed to give 5 stars public reviews and a private review that lowers a score (the same time).

Would you prefer poor public feedback on your profile along with the private feedback?

What is your private feedback percentage like? (Your Clients who would recommend you percentage on your My Stats page) That is the private feedback you got over the lifetime of your profile.

criselenacris · ‎08-06-2019

It is 87%, but I have 2 canceled contracts and another client who has never given feedback (I closed the contract myself). In total, I have 35 closed contracts. The clients said that those projects were canceled and ask for a refund the same day they started the contracts. One of them is a long-term client who started another contract one hour after I refunded the money, so I really do not think he gave me a bad private review. I really had no complaints from the clients who closed the contracts.

petra_r · ‎08-06-2019

Elena Cristina R wrote:
It is 87%,

So there we are.

That only includes private feedback from clients who actually left private feedback.

So that confirms that idle contracts never were what dipped your JSS, which means you don't need to worry about them.

hoyle_editing · ‎08-06-2019

Petra R wrote:
Elena Cristina R wrote:
It is 87%,
So there we are.
That only includes private feedback from clients who actually left private feedback.
So that confirms that idle contracts never were what dipped your JSS, which means you don't need to worry about them.

How are you finding/seeing private feedback?

is this the 'Clients that would reccomend you' percentage?

criselenacris · ‎08-06-2019

It was 90% before refunding the money to my long-term client. It dropped again the third day and I had no other closed contracts during that period. Would this affect the Jss score?

petra_r · ‎08-06-2019

Elena Cristina R wrote:
It was 90% before refunding the money to my long-term client. It dropped again the third day and I had no other closed contracts during that period. Would this affect the Jss score?

It does not update after every contract, but I am not sure how often / when it updates. It only includes feedback that was actually left, so when / if it drops, someone left less than great private feedback and yes, private feedback is the main factor in the JSS (if not even the only one as some people suspect)

Refunding a contract ìn full (!) creates a "nothing ever paid" contract, which will likely affect your JSS if it comes with no or poor private feedback.

Jonathan H wrote:
Petra R wrote:
Elena Cristina R wrote:
It is 87%,
So there we are.
How are you finding/seeing private feedback?
is this the 'Clients that would reccomend you' percentage?

Yes. And it is over the lifetime of the profile, whereas the JSS is the best of your 6, 12 or 24-month windows. So we know (for example) that Elena is on a 6-month calculation window at the moment because it is better than the 12-month window.

We also know that the main poor factors were more than 6 months ago.

a_lipsey · ‎08-06-2019

I really appreciate this analysis because I only had one contract go south because they wanted to take me off UpWork and I refused, then they were mad that they had to fund milestones and they were't doing it in enough time for me to actually have time to complete the projects. So we'd agree to something then I'd have to wait weeks to start work, then have to decline the project. They didn't leave public feedback but I just saw that they left me 2.5 stars which is ridiculous because that is based on work that I did not do or agree to do, not on ALL the positive communication from her team and I have the emails where she is saying how great my work is and she wants me to join her team off of UpWork. The thing is that was more than 6 months ago, but just less than a year ago. I'm hoping that once that drops beyond a year (September will do it) that my JSS will go up again.

I am wondering, I currently have two very happy clients who keep returning on the same contract. I know they'd be amenable to closing the current contracts and leaving good feedback, and opening a new contract for the next phase of work. Would that help my JSS to get two positive reviews right now?

My JSS isn't suffering that badly but my work here is sporadic since I have many offline clients and with reviews dropping out of the cycle, I don't want to take a hit. Thoughts?

florydev · ‎08-06-2019

Amanda L wrote:

I am wondering, I currently have two very happy clients who keep returning on the same contract. I know they'd be amenable to closing the current contracts and leaving good feedback, and opening a new contract for the next phase of work. Would that help my JSS to get two positive reviews right now?

I have thought about doing this too.

robin_hyman · ‎08-06-2019

Amanda L wrote:
I really appreciate this analysis because I only had one contract go south because they wanted to take me off UpWork and I refused, then they were mad that they had to fund milestones and they were't doing it in enough time for me to actually have time to complete the projects. So we'd agree to something then I'd have to wait weeks to start work, then have to decline the project. They didn't leave public feedback but I just saw that they left me 2.5 stars which is ridiculous because that is based on work that I did not do or agree to do, not on ALL the positive communication from her team and I have the emails where she is saying how great my work is and she wants me to join her team off of UpWork. The thing is that was more than 6 months ago, but just less than a year ago. I'm hoping that once that drops beyond a year (September will do it) that my JSS will go up again.

I am wondering, I currently have two very happy clients who keep returning on the same contract. I know they'd be amenable to closing the current contracts and leaving good feedback, and opening a new contract for the next phase of work. Would that help my JSS to get two positive reviews right now?

My JSS isn't suffering that badly but my work here is sporadic since I have many offline clients and with reviews dropping out of the cycle, I don't want to take a hit. Thoughts?

Amanda,

You're still top rated and with a JSS of 92%, I'd hold onto this option if you need it at a later date. You may not need it at all if you win new projects with positive experiences. Also, how do you know if you received 2.5 stars if the feedback wasn't public? It's also not on your profile unless you had it removed?

Robin

petra_r · ‎08-06-2019

Amanda L wrote:
They didn't leave public feedback but I just saw that they left me 2.5 stars

The stars ARE the public feedback.

Amanda L wrote:
The thing is that was more than 6 months ago, but just less than a year ago. I'm hoping that once that drops beyond a year (September will do it) that my JSS will go up again.

I am wondering, I currently have two very happy clients who keep returning on the same contract. I know they'd be amenable to closing the current contracts and leaving good feedback, and opening a new contract for the next phase of work. Would that help my JSS to get two positive reviews right now?

You don't actually have a 6-month window right now, because you don't have enough complete contracts in it. If you could manage to get 3 or so closed contracts in your 6-month window, it would allow your JSS window to be your 6-month window, and that would help.

a_lipsey · ‎08-06-2019

Petra R wrote:
Amanda L wrote:
They didn't leave public feedback but I just saw that they left me 2.5 stars
The stars ARE the public feedback.

Amanda L wrote:
The thing is that was more than 6 months ago, but just less than a year ago. I'm hoping that once that drops beyond a year (September will do it) that my JSS will go up again.

I am wondering, I currently have two very happy clients who keep returning on the same contract. I know they'd be amenable to closing the current contracts and leaving good feedback, and opening a new contract for the next phase of work. Would that help my JSS to get two positive reviews right now?
You don't actually have a 6-month window right now, because you don't have enough complete contracts in it. If you could manage to get 3 or so closed contracts in your 6-month window, it would allow your JSS window to be your 6-month window, and that would help.

On my profile it says no feedback given, and then when I click on my jobs it shows 2.5 stars. Are those stars the feedback that I left?

petra_r · ‎08-06-2019

Amanda L wrote:
On my profile it says no feedback given, and then when I click on my jobs it shows 2.5 stars. Are those stars the feedback that I left?

LOL, yes

a_lipsey · ‎08-06-2019

Petra R wrote:
Amanda L wrote:
On my profile it says no feedback given, and then when I click on my jobs it shows 2.5 stars. Are those stars the feedback that I left?
LOL, yes

Facepalm. Thank you. I am not a total idiot, I promise.

criselenacris · ‎08-06-2019

Thank you!