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Clients Are Not As Regulated As We Freelancers Are

nicoalvaro
Active Member
Nicolas Leandro A Member Since: Apr 7, 2021
1 of 16

I have submitted several proposals in the last months, always keeping and eye on my Available Connects account, since I'm not rich, each one I use is meaningful to me, and I really give a thought on spending them, and here is my point: 

 

- Upwork is very professional in regulating us Freelancers, they make sure we are not a fake, that we keep our profiles as clean as possible, and that we are as clear as possible when submitting a proposal to clients in defining Timing, Deadlines, etc. Thats a very good practice, and keeps the system in very high standard, but the thing is...Clients do NOT have any responsability or commitment with us Freelancers, in any form, and they just appear and dessapear at they free will.

 

Clients don't reply to messages, there's no tool that let's us know our proposals were at least read! They are not asked even to decline them, and that really hurts the system for us Freelancers! As an example, I submit 8 different proposals, spend 20 Connects on them that are important currency for me, and then....nothing! Just...nothing! I'm not complaining for the clients not to hire me, I'm just saying they are not asked to at least let you know they read your message, they declined it, they liked it, they hated it...I want to move on as quick as possible with other proposals, but not knowing anything about them since the second after I send them.....it's a real deal breaker for me.

 

Please upwork, is there a chance, a tool...something I'm missing or that you can add to the system to fix that issue?

 

Best regards to all,

 

Nico

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
2 of 16

Nicolas Leandro A wrote:

I want to move on as quick as possible with other proposals, but not knowing anything about them since the second after I send them.....it's a real deal breaker for me.


You need to move on immediately after submitting each proposal. Do not "wait".  Carry on immediately and only think about proposals if and when a client contacts you back.

 

8 proposals is nothing. Upwork, more than ever before, is insanely competitive. So many job posts have 50 or more proposals. Many, if not most, are never read. That's the way it is. Unless the first 2 lines of your proposal really grab the client's attention, it may well never get opened.


And as for how clients and freelancers are different: Clients bring the money that makes the whole show go around.

nicoalvaro
Active Member
Nicolas Leandro A Member Since: Apr 7, 2021
3 of 16

Hi, thanks for your comments, I agree with most of your ideas, my point is that there're not tools for us to know what happens to any of our proposals sent, no trace, no way to know anything about them unless the client answers to us, which is maybe 5% of the cases.

Anyway, I'm with you when you say that applying as much as possible is the way. Do you have any advise in how to write the first sentences of the letter?

2a05aa63
Community Guru
Viacheslav K Member Since: Sep 9, 2015
4 of 16

Nicolas Leandro A wrote:

Hi, thanks for your comments, I agree with most of your ideas, my point is that there're not tools for us to know what happens to any of our proposals sent, no trace, no way to know anything about them unless the client answers to us, which is maybe 5% of the cases.

Anyway, I'm with you when you say that applying as much as possible is the way. Do you have any advise in how to write the first sentences of the letter?


If the client doesn't reply, it means they aren't interested. To get any data you need to have some feedback. So it's meaningless to ask for anything from a party that is not interested.

alangat
Active Member
andrew l Member Since: May 4, 2016
5 of 16

I love this proposal. 

shivafernandes
Ace Contributor
Shiva S Member Since: Mar 16, 2021
6 of 16

I think it would be very useful to have some more metrics relating to job letters:

a) If a client even saw your proposal at all. (So this way you can know if you're simply applying too late, or being filtered out by value)


b) if a client opened your proposal, and if so, whats the average time they kept at it.

I understand we may not get exactly "client x opened your proposal", but a general metric of how many times you applied x how many times your application was seen on their screen x how many times they opened up the application x how many times your attachments/links were clicked would be a great way to know if you're on the right track!

tlsanders
Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
7 of 16

These things wouldn't really tell you anything useful. Clients get emails about you, and there's a preview of your proposal in their list, so it's easy to do some preliminary filtering without opening proposals. Whether or not they've opened wouldn't really tell you anything about whether it was too late or you'd been bypassed for a reason. 

 

I know some freelancers would like those polite declines from clients, but I would absolutely hate getting all those unnecessary notifications (and, from prior discussion of this issue, I know I'm not alone in that). 

nicoalvaro
Active Member
Nicolas Leandro A Member Since: Apr 7, 2021
8 of 16

Well, I desagree with you in thinking information is useless, I think it can help you to correct, to grow, to be aware of where all your effort is going when you send to a client a proposal.

 

Notifications can be activated and the other way around at your will in any case, thing is, I send a proposal...and that's it, if a client doesn't answer...it's game over, and I don't even know if I'm getting to be read at least, to know if my letter is weak, if the files I'm using as examples are not good enough, if there were already too much people participating, etc.

 

Thanks for your comments!

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
9 of 16

Nicolas Leandro A wrote:

I send a proposal...and that's it, if a client doesn't answer...it's game over, and I don't even know if I'm getting to be read at least, to know if my letter is weak, if the files I'm using as examples are not good enough, if there were already too much people participating, etc.


How does knowing your proposal was read v not help you grow when both have the same outcome? It doesn't help you to determine which aspect it was, and Upwork would never make clients give detailed feedback to dozens of proposals they barely (if at all) glanced at.

 

Upwork isn't the place to learn how to sell and how to structure proposals and how to present your portfolio. Proposals are not there to aid your personal growth or career development. They're there to allow clients to easily identify who they want to work with. "Stuff" that costs clients precious time or irritates them (such as being forced to respond to surplus applicants) is a bad thing as it puts clients off posting jobs here.

shivafernandes
Ace Contributor
Shiva S Member Since: Mar 16, 2021
10 of 16

Tiffany S wrote:

These things wouldn't really tell you anything useful. Clients get emails about you, and there's a preview of your proposal in their list, so it's easy to do some preliminary filtering without opening proposals. Whether or not they've opened wouldn't really tell you anything about whether it was too late or you'd been bypassed for a reason. 

 

I know some freelancers would like those polite declines from clients, but I would absolutely hate getting all those unnecessary notifications (and, from prior discussion of this issue, I know I'm not alone in that). 


About the polite declines, it already exists doesn't it? Last Month I got two, I mean client's don't use it very often, but it's something in the system. And I agree with you, it's not necessary.

Now about metrics, I understand they don't apply to everyone, nor most people enjoy them. But I think they can be quite useful to fine tune your approach, specially when dealing with platform specifics.

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