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Clients Are Not As Regulated As We Freelancers Are

nicoalvaro
Active Member
Nicolas Leandro A Member Since: Apr 7, 2021
11 of 16

Exactly, that's where I wanted to go when I posted this message, there has to be a way to trace the "post proposal" events, since we send them, and then....there's nothing! And that's poor feedback for us, we don't get to know if clients read our messages, if they don't, if they download the material we sent to show some examples, etc.

 

Thanks for your comment, I think your ideas are in the right way of what could be done.

 

Please UPWORK, can you take this at least in consideration?

moonraker
Community Guru
Jamie F Member Since: Mar 7, 2010
12 of 16

Nicolas Leandro A wrote:

, we don't get to know if clients read our messages, if they don't, if they download the material we sent to show some examples, etc.

 


And just what would you do with this information if you had it?

They've not read the message? Then what?
They have read the message? Then what? 

What course of action can you possibly take that would help improve your fortunes on Upwork? 

Take a look around and you'll see the experienced, successful freelancers saying pretty much the same thing: Fire and forget. Do your best at writing a proposal, fire it off, and forget all about it. Act as if you'll never hear from them again, move onto the next one,  and when they do get back to you - that's great.

Again, this is the general consensus (from what I can tell) from freelancers who have been able to make it work for them. Don't you think that perhaps, maybe, they have it right? 

wescowley
Community Guru
Wes C Member Since: May 3, 2019
13 of 16

Nicolas Leandro A wrote:

 

Clients don't reply to messages, there's no tool that let's us know our proposals were at least read! They are not asked even to decline them, and that really hurts the system for us Freelancers!


I know! I mean, when I went grocery shopping this week, I had to explain to each coffee brand that I picked another one and why (it was a twofer and kind of good). Don't even get me started on the apples.

 

But really, requiring a client to add any explanation on top of not responding is friction that will drive people away. If I posted a job and had to explain to 50+ people why I didn't interview them, I'd post my next job on one of the F*r sites instead.

 

You have all the information you need already: whether you got an interview is the first filter, and whether you got the contract is the next. If you didn't get the interview, your proposal didn't meet their needs. If you got the interview and didn't get the job, someone else better met their needs (or no one, including you, did).

 

Others have said it but it's worth repeating: do not wait for clients to respond to your proposals. Keep submitting to jobs you can do. Worry about schedule conflicts when you get enough responses and jobs that the schedule becomes a problem, not before. It takes time, patience, and a boatload of connects to get to that point.

sherrera92
Active Member
Sergio H Member Since: Apr 8, 2021
14 of 16

I have to say I feel the frustration that the author of this post reflects because I've spent hundreds of connects (both granted for free & paid) into dead end job posts. However your logic into this matter does make sense to me and I stopped getting bothered by it. Idealize other outcomes to those applications and try to gather information from them is a total waste of time and energy.

kinector
Community Guru
Mikko R Member Since: Dec 26, 2015
15 of 16

Wes C wrote:

I know! I mean, when I went grocery shopping this week, I had to explain to each coffee brand that I picked another one and why (it was a twofer and kind of good). Don't even get me started on the apples.

 

But really, requiring a client to add any explanation on top of not responding is friction that will drive people away. If I posted a job and had to explain to 50+ people why I didn't interview them, I'd post my next job on one of the F*r sites instead.

 

You have all the information you need already: whether you got an interview is the first filter, and whether you got the contract is the next. If you didn't get the interview, your proposal didn't meet their needs. If you got the interview and didn't get the job, someone else better met their needs (or no one, including you, did).

 

Others have said it but it's worth repeating: do not wait for clients to respond to your proposals. Keep submitting to jobs you can do. Worry about schedule conflicts when you get enough responses and jobs that the schedule becomes a problem, not before. It takes time, patience, and a boatload of connects to get to that point.


Apples... Smiley LOL I have the exact same thing with coconuts!

 

But seriously, I agree with Wes 100%. Let's not consider making clients click every proposal. Even if it takes 1 second per each. Let's keep the system easy and flexible for clients who want to do business here and let the learning process of freelancers happen elsewhere. This is a tough place to start freelancing these days. There are already millions of us and those with long track records (and longer beards) tend to beat the newcomers.

 

Just a practical example.

 

As a client, I wanted to pay $20 for someone to copy-paste some transactions for my books. I got 85 proposals! No chance I would even click through each page of proposals, not speaking of each individual proposal. No thanks! As a client, I just want to get that little job done, that's all.

 

Since the job was so simple that almost anyone could do it, I got lots of entry-level proposals and I picked the guy RANDOMLY. But I picked among those who had $0 earnings to give some lucky winner a chance to get things going.

 

With projects that many people can do, it is a lottery. Best of luck!

 

With projects that only a few can do, it's real business.

 

Business is about who needs who, and the need is real and acute. Worth real money.

 

So, to freelancers complaining about reach and replies, the lack of feedback on proposals, missing growth opportunities, etc. I only tell to focus on:

- finding a very specific niche where you and only you can excel, globally (eventually)

- sticking with your initial niche until your profile is strong (which might take years BTW)

- expanding to broad and highly competed categories only after you have a "boss profile" (and you know how to appeal to your dream clients with just a couple of lines of proposal text)

 

One of the keys to all of the above is the understanding of how the domain where you wish to do business, works. What's your place in the value chain? Do you improve a client's business? Are you a critical part of it? Are you merely a cost-saving factor? Is this platform a place where your dream clients go in the first place? And so on...

 

Nicolas, I think nothing hurts us Upwork freelancers as much as missing clients. Let's try to keep them here. The more, the better. Each of us just needs to figure out our own UNIQUE selling point that works out great for the client and the freelancer at the same time.

jeremiah-brown
Ace Contributor
Jeremiah B Member Since: Jun 5, 2020
16 of 16

The simple and honest answer is that you are a freelancer.  It is now up to you to market yourself.  Tell the other person why you stand out and why they should hire you over everyone else.  That's it.  This is called a "value proposition" if you need a term to Google and study up on.

 

When you submit a proposal, just fire and forget.  You'll only have maybe a 2-8% response rate.  If someone responds, you are 80% of the way to being hired, don't blow it.  Do good work, go the extra mile, make good on your deadlines, and eventually those jobs, projects, and reviews will compound.  Eventually, you'll be able to increase your response rate to 50% or more.  When that happens, project management becomes more of a problem you'll need to master.  Juggling projects simultaneously and making deadlines is critical so as not to destroy your ratings and reviews.

 

 

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