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pedroed
Community Member

Closed contracts with no feedback SHOULD NOT affect the JSS

Hello guys,

 

I noticed a very strange behaviour from clients these day, not sure if other freelancers can relate (let me know in the comments), clients these days don't bother closing contracts and leaving a feedback when a job is finished, they may just don't have time to do it or process is complex for them and time consuming, they just leave contract open even if they don't have a new task/project for you, this affect the JOB SUCCESS SCORE (JSS) and it may destroy your Upwork career in few weeks, as you may know when you send proposal to clients you get ranked first based on your JSS and your price/quotes, and clients mostly hire the first ranked freelancer with cheaper/good price. 

 

To talk about myself, my JSS is steady at 78% this year, it was around 95% in the previous year, and i can tell this year i have lost over 80% of my income due to this, i was getting like 10 to 20 jobs per month in last year, now i'm getting hired for 1 or 2 jobs in a month. This is not about the negative feedback from my clients,  it's the same amount of negative feedbacks as last year, but this year i have many closed contracts without any feedback (i have closed them by myself after waiting for ages with no luck for my clients to close  the contract)

 

I hope Upwork fix this situation and don't let open or closed contract without any feedback affect the JSS,  it's not fair, because i can tell from 8 years experience freelancing on ODesk and Elance (Upwork); not all clients have time to close contracts and leave or write feedbacks,.

 

Let me know in comments if some freelancers relate to this situation 

19 REPLIES 19
petryliak-victor
Community Member


Badr E wrote:

Hello guys,

 

I noticed a very strange behaviour from clients these day, not sure if other freelancers can relate (let me know in the comments), clients these days don't bother closing contracts and leaving a feedback when a job is finished, they just leave it open even if they don't have a new task/project for you, this affect the JOB SUCCESS SCORE (JSS) and it may destroy your Upwork career in few weeks, as you may know when you send proposal to clients you get ranked first based on your JSS and your price/quotes, and clients mostly hire the first ranked freelancer with cheaper/good price. 

 

To talk about myself, my JSS is steady at 78% this year, it was around 95% in the previous year, and i can tell this year i have lost over 80% of my income due to this, i was getting like 10 to 20 jobs per month in last year, now i'm getting hired for 1 or 2 jobs in a month. This is not about the negative feedback from my clients,  it's the same amount of negative feedbacks as last year, but this year i have many closed contracts without any feedback (i have closed them by myself after waiting for ages with no luck for my clients to close  the contract)

 

I hope Upwork fix this situtation and don't let open or closed contract without any feedback affect the JSS,  it's not fair, because i can tell from 8 years exprience freelancing on ODesk and Elance (Upwork); not all clients have time to close contracts and leave or write feedbacks,.

 

Let me know in comments if some freelancers relate to this situation 


After looking at your feedback I must say that probably it's even better for you when clients don't leave you a feedback.

wlyonsatl
Community Member

Yes, Badr, Upwork needs a much better solution to clients not leaving feedback than reducing the freelancer's JSS.

 

If Upwork requires client feedback then after a certain period of no contact between client and freelancer and no activity on milestones or hourly time tracking Upwork should let the client know the contract will be closed within XX time period unless new activity is booked.

 

Clients have much less incentive than freelancers to understand many parts of Upwork's rules and protocols. Freelancers should not be punished for client ignorance or rejection of how Upwork expects clients to act.

petra_r
Community Member


Badr E wrote:

I hope Upwork fix this situtation and don't let open or closed contract without any feedback affect the JSS, 


Your poor JSS is not in any way associated with your "no feedback" contracts.

 

I'm surprised it's as high as it is looking at the consistent pattern of poor feedback.

 

 

a_lipsey
Community Member


Petra R wrote:

Badr E wrote:

I hope Upwork fix this situtation and don't let open or closed contract without any feedback affect the JSS, 


Your poor JSS is not in any way associated with your "no feedback" contracts.

 

I'm surprised it's as high as it is looking at the consistent pattern of poor feedback.

 

 


Apparently previous clients were under the impression he was female as well? 

 

There also seems to be a pattern of taking on clients when you admit in your feedback to them that it wasn't the right job for you. Maybe it would be better to be pickier, so that your score can go up and you will get the invites you seek? 

pedroed
Community Member

Amanda and Petra, thank you for your interest and taking time to write to me, but please don't judge a book from its cover.

 

Amanda, some clients are from foreign countries, they barely speak English, "she" or "he" or "it" is not the problem here, client did close contract and leave feedback which is the most important thing, it's not  professional to complain to a foreign client about a grammar mistake or leaving him a bad feedback because he told me "she", my answers to clients are honest and truthful, for that specific client i told him at first that he can't afford the style of video he needs based on his budget, but he just hired me and said just do a quick test for me, in the end he wanted it to look more nicer and follow certain quality of a famous blogger within his tight budget of 5$ per video.

 

Upwork support confirmed that my low JSS is due to many contracts with no feedback, and they suggested to let Upwork Team hear my feedback about this, so that is why i'm posting this in the hope of finding a solution to ease ending contracts and feedback process for clients to encourage them to do it.

 

from July 2019 to  July 2020 i have so far:

30 Jobs with positive 5 stars feedback

5 Jobs with negative feedback (2 stars - 3 stars)

25 Jobs with no feedback

 

Jobs with low feedback are usually paid trial test with 20$ -$100 paid, i have there projects with over $1000 paid and feedback is 5 stars (New Upwork policy says big projects with good feedback affect well the JSS and low budget jobs with negtaive feedback don't really affect the JSS anymore)

screenshot-www.upwork.com-2020.07.31-06_55_32.png

 

In Video Editing, Animated Explainer videos and all creative arts we can't satisfy all clients, there is a big challenge to satisfy a client 100% you must be willing to do unlimited endless revisons without asking for extra money to satisfy clients 100% and it may take months to finish a project of this kind, so finding a balance between making good prices within market range and offering good amount of revisions is a big challenge for us as Video Makers.

 

Thanks and i hope you contribute to find a solution to ease ending contracts process instead of complaining about my profile and judging it without digging deep.

 

 

NOTE:

Petra, most of your comments on this community is blaming and hunting freelancers, i hope you change this behaviour i have reported you many times to moderators. Community is a place to help each other and not being negative and rude to freelancers all the time.

 

Amanda, there is always a way to tell your point of view without being sarcastic and rude, i hope you improve this on your recent comments in the community. 

petra_r
Community Member


Badr E wrote:

Upwork support confirmed that my low JSS is due to many contracts with no feedback, and they suggested to let Upwork Team hear my feedback about this, so that is why i'm posting this in the hope of finding a solution to ease ending contracts and feedback process for clients to encourage them to do it.

 

from July 2019 to  July 2020 i have so far:

30 Jobs with positing 5 stars feedback

5 Jobs with negative feedback (2 stars - 3 stars)

25 Jobs with no feedback


So one in 7 of the clients who left  feedback in the past year left poor public feedback (and then there are the 4.something contracts that would usually also come with less than perfect private feedback)

 

So... What is your private feedback percentage? (The "clients who would recommend you" percentage on your "My Stats" page)

 

If it's similar to your JSS, you have your answer. The other factor that hurts is contracts that never lead to any earnings, of which you have a lot too.

 

What hurts the JSS (in virtually all cases, and yours, too) are two things:

 

  1. Poor private feedback
  2. "Nothing ever paid" contracts (cancelled without payment, fully refunded, open for months, but nothing was ever paid)

 

There is a guy who has had over 80% of his contracts end without feedback, and had 100% JSS for the longest time, it only just dropped to 98% and that almost certainly has nothing to do with his "no feedback" contracts.

 

But if you want to cling on to the belief that it is the "No feedback given" contracts, rather than the fact that so many of your clients are unhappy, go right ahead. That way you can pretend to yourself that your JSS has nothing to do with the contract outcomes, so you don't have to do anything and don't have to change anything...

 

But what you are asking for largely already applies, and your JSS is not low because of that anyway, it's low because you have so many unhappy clients. The "Nothing ever paid" contracts aren't helping, either.

pedroed
Community Member

Petra,
Percentage of clients who would recommend me: 80%
Which i think it's a good and positive percentage for me.
 
However it didn't change a lot, last year when i had TOP RATED 100% JSS, it was 82%.
 
You can be informed by Upwork chat support that indeed "closed contracts with $ earnings and with no feedback affect your JSS.
 
So 25 jobs out of 60 are with no feedback, and it doesn't mean all the 25 clients are mad at me, they were happy and nice to me in the end of the project, some of them tell me that they will close contract later and some of them they review work and approve it and that's it. My only guess is that they just don't have the time to do it, and the process may be a little bit complicated for some clients and time consuming.
 
I'm not trying to justify myself but i'm certain that not all my clients are made at me
 
I suggest Upwork gives pop-up little window (they can't be closed with an X mark) in the middle of an active contract when a client is online or when a client is about to approve a milestone or pay for full job, Upwork can ask them about a rating of how the current contract/freelancer is doing. That could be used as a private feedback or public feedback instead of the current process and maybe leaving the "closing contract" process later . see example below:
 
I know that this can be challenging for Upwork DEV team, but i think this will really help clients save time
Untitled-1.jpg
petra_r
Community Member


Badr E wrote:
Petra,
Percentage of clients who would recommend me: 80%
Which i think it's a good and positive percentage for me.

If you think that's a good average, that's equally worrying and telling. Remember that it's a lifetime metric (not like the JSS, which is the best of your 6 months, 12 months and 24 months metrics)

 

Because you have had  over 420 contracts over the lifetime of your profile (including all the "nothing ever paid ones) - your private feedback percentage takes a lot to change significantly. It just happens to currently sit in line with your JSS.

 

Also funny how you didn't address the matter of the dozens of "nothing ever paid" contracts.

 

Let's get back to the whole "No feedback left" contracts: They are not what cause your JSS to be as low as it is. That's ultimately the point that matters because it removes the underlying premise of your post in the first place.

 

The fact that you managed to be at 100% at some point briefly, just means you managed to go 6 months between bad feedback affecting your metrics.

pedroed
Community Member


Also funny how you didn't address the matter of the dozens of "nothing ever paid" contracts.

 


Petra,

Why it is funny? what funny about that?

And how do you know my "nothing ever paid" contracts? i don't have those statistics in my profile, are you working with Upwork Team and you have access to my account and in same time you're a freelancer replying and blaming and bullying freelancers? because i always see you hating on freelancers and doing sarcastic comments to provoke freelancers and to stop them posting about Upwork "gaps" in the community and to make Upwork look so much perfect and we are the people to blame.

 

Anyway, projects get canceled by clients mostly because they don't need it anymore, this is also a big gap, it's not my fault after a client hires me he decided in same day to cancel the project for no reason.

 

Here is a screenshot from Upwork support that indeed Jobs Closed with no feedback affect the JSS:

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

pedroed
Community Member


The fact that you managed to be at 100% at some point briefly, just means you managed to go 6 months between bad feedback affecting your metrics.

I was 100% and Top Rated since the program began on Upwork, i'm on Upwork since 2013, this is the only year for me with this kind of issue, many clients are not responsive and they don't close a contract and leave a feedback, they just approve work and that's it.

 

We in the Video Production category have few clients and most of them they are independent Entrepreneurs, Youtubers, bloggers, film makers who don't have time, it's not like customer support where you are hired by a company of at least 10 people manging it and have time to do all things.

 

Time is money for some clients, so the process of leaving a feedback should be changes to a fast process. 

It is not Upwork's fault that you are not satisfying your clients. Such as high number of no feedbacks itself suggest clients were not exactly happy. Some prefer to leave no feedback rather than leave negative feedback. 

You will be doing yourself a favour if you focus on your own shortcomings instead of complaining about Upwork. Perhaps you need to work on improving your skills? There are also clients that are unhappy with deadlines, cooperation, and communication. There's no excuse for that regardless of skills. 

Mr Jamie,

 

Thank you for your answer.

 

I can assure you all the 25 clients were happy, my skills are updated and i do a yearly formation at an institute, you can see the quality of my portfolio.

 

We can't satisfy all people in the world, it's a fact. so for me 5 negtaive jobs out of 60 is not a big number i guess after all.

 

Can you please tell me how many jobs you have with no feedback, because i see you currently have some and you had many of them back in the days 2010-2013? were all those clients mad at you and not happy? i will leave to you the answer.


Badr E wrote:

 

I can assure you all the 25 clients were happy, my skills are updated and i do a yearly formation at an institute, you can see the quality of my portfolio.

 


Your profile does not agree. That is all that matters. 


 

We can't satisfy all people in the world, it's a fact. so for me 5 negtaive jobs out of 60 is not a big number i guess after all.

 


Be realistic. It's not 5 negative out of 60. It's a handful of positive feedbacks out of... how many? 

 


 

Can you please tell me how many jobs you have with no feedback, because i see you currently have some and you had many of them back in the days 2010-2013? were all those clients mad at you and not happy? i will leave to you the answer.


I have some that need closing and I am in the process of doing so gradually, just for aesthetics if nothing else.

Even if I closed all of those that are inactive right now, my account would STILL be looking a **bleep** sight better than yours is. There's no point in looking at my profile (or other peoples') to try and make excuses for your own poor profile. That won't help you. 


It is up to you whether or not you take on board the advice you have been given. You can either carry on as you are blaming Upwork, or you can think about how to make sure you provide a good service for your clients in the future. The latter would help to give you more jobs and for more money as you progress. SURELY that would be the better option?

Your career - your call. Feel free to ignore me (and others). It won't affect us. 


Mr Jamie,

 

25 are no feedback, so there is no feedback, the one you see with 3 stars is from the 5 negtaive feedbacks, and there are 30 jobs with 5 starts.

 

My mistake, you are the first who replied to me and viewed my profile,

 

"**bleep** sight " ???

you're just a writer sir, if you do grammar mistakes then why you should be a writer? you creativity is very limited compared to ours as video makers and complexity of video projects is far from what you can just write, changing a word in an article is not time consuming like changing a sequence  editing in a video, These days few are reading articles, majority watch videos with voice over.

 

I can't compare a creative profile with a customer support or article writer profile, the creativty and level of complexity of projects is not the same, but i'm sure you will hit the big rock of busy clients on Upwork that don't have time to close or write a feedback, they just approve and go and come back when they need something.

 

In the end, the "feedback" process should be improved by Upwork for a busy world like this, not all client these days don't have a time to go through mutiple windows or to be on a Laptop/computer to close a contract and leave feedback, not sure if this feature is available on Upwork Client Mobile App.

g_vasilevski
Retired Team Member
Retired Team Member

Thank you for your feedback, Badr, I will share it with our team.

I would also like to remind everyone to be mindful of our Community Guidelines. Thank you.

~ Goran
Upwork


Goran V wrote:

Thank you for your feedback, Badr, I will share it with our team.

I would also like to remind everyone to be mindful of our Community Guidelines. Thank you.


Thank you Mr Goran, i hope the process of closing contracts and leaving feedback for freelancers will be improved soon and i'm existed to see Upwork grows and develop its technology following the current "speed" of life, time is precious for clients these days.

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**


 

25 are no feedback, so there is no feedback, the one you see with 3 stars is from the 5 negtaive feedbacks, and there are 30 jobs with 5 starts.

 


You're going to just keep on digging in, aren't you?

No feedbacks ARE NOT 'positive'. At best, they are neutral. They will usually do no harm, but they don't do 'good' either. When you have as many as you do, however, it's a stretch to even call them neutral. 


 

In the end, the "feedback" process should be improved by Upwork for a busy world like this, not all client these days don't have a time to go through mutiple windows or to be on a Laptop/computer to close a contract and leave feedback, not sure if this feature is available on Upwork Client Mobile App.


This is just a poor excuse. Of those clients that are not leaving you feedback, they are leaving feedback --- just not for you. **Edited for Community Guidelines**

And now I'm just going to leave you to it as I have my own work to do and I feel as though I am talking to a brick wall anyway. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, and this:

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

Wow! 




------------------------
Oh, and this:

""Client disappeared after completing the project, i suspect they are scammers, payments were approved by Upwork only.""

You openly accused a client of being a scammer even after you were paid?

Yes, and i did the best thing, his account was restricted as he removed his payment method when i submitted my work and he didn't pay until Upwork approved payments after 14 days.

 

For the 25, yes, they are happy, you need proofs, ask me.

 

If no one is talking about Upwork gaps then you probably will never dream of getting your connects refunded when a client closes a job without hiring, i was one of MANY freelancers who complained and reported this matter and Upwork responded to it positively. Upwork team is listening to us as freelancers, and people in community like **Edited for Community Guidelines** will not stop us from posting problems with Upwork.

g_vasilevski
Retired Team Member
Retired Team Member

Hi all,

 

We've been following this conversation and I'll close the thread to further replies since the arguments have been exhausted and the conversation is moving into an unproductive direction. I'd like to thank all participants for their valuable input.

~ Goran
Upwork
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