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Connects get out of hand.

Community Guru
Richard S Member Since: Mar 12, 2019
51 of 57

Abinadab A wrote:

Hi! Richard S.

I won't allow you waste that $105 hiring Tiffany to confirm the obvious lol.

I'd like to corroborate that what Tiffany said she saw, I saw it too, if that's anything.

Somewhere in the Upwork help articles, I read that Upwork only accepts 10% of freelancer applications.

 

It's what Upwork said

 

Hi Abinadab. Oh well, it must be true then...To be honest, I would rather have a sensible discussion about the requirements for someone to join the site, but it seems like that's not going to happen, which is a shame.


 

Community Guru
Richard L Member Since: Dec 14, 2016
52 of 57

Abinadab said: "Somewhere in the Upwork help articles, I read that Upwork only accepts 10% of freelancer applications." 


**Edited for Community Guidelines**Might you cite the source of that "somewhere"?

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
53 of 57


Richard S wrote:

Again, if you could provide information that indicates (as you have said) that Upwork is rejecting approximately 90% of new applicants, that would be great.

 



The number that was stated by Upwork is actually 98% (of the approximately, on average, 10.000 hopefuls who try to join Upwork every day that are rejected.)

This was said by Upwork's CEO during a television interview. (around 3.40 into it "98% of the people who apply will not be admitted...")

Presumably, he knows his numbers.

 

Richard L wrote:

 You are making stuff up!


No Richard, I am not "making stuff up."

  • JSS is affected negatively by poor feedback (public and private)
  • JSS is affected negatively by contracts that end without anything ever having been paid (or fully refunded) and (!) no or poor feedback (private)
  • JSS is affected positively by good feedback (public and private)
  • JSS is affected positively by repeat and long term clients

Unless someone has an insanely high percentage of "no feedback" or "idle for several months" contracts, they have no effect at all provided money was (at any point in the past) paid under that contract.

 

Once we understand it thus far, all we have to consider is the 6, 12 and 24-month calculation windows (and how contracts falling out of the relevant window can affect the proportions of good and poor outcomes left in it.)

 

It's really not rocket science.

I guess it is human nature to prefer to attribute a less than stellar JSS to stuff beyond one's control (absent clients not closing contracts or not leaving any feedback) than a history of regular sub-optimal feedback.

 

Considering that the private feedback % on one's My Stats page includes only those outcomes where a client actually proactively left private feedback, a low percentage there would strongly indicate that "no feedback" or "idle" contracts aren't the problem, a number of not entirely thrilled clients is.

 

 

Abinadab A wrote:

Hi! Richard S.

 

I'd like to corroborate that what Tiffany said she saw, I saw it too, if that's anything.

Somewhere in the Upwork help articles, I read that Upwork only accepts 10% of freelancer applications.

 

It's what Upwork said.


 Upwork (through its CEO) said 2%

Then we have to remember that of that 2 %, the vast majority never win a single contract but I guess that's a different matter altogether.

 

Community Guru
Richard L Member Since: Dec 14, 2016
54 of 57

"No Richard, I am not "making stuff up."

  • JSS is affected negatively by poor feedback (public and private)
  • JSS is affected negatively by contracts that end without anything ever having been paid (or fully refunded) and (!) no or poor feedback (private)
  • JSS is affected positively by good feedback (public and private)
  • JSS is affected positively by repeat and long term clients

Unless someone has an insanely high percentage of "no feedback" or "idle for several months" contracts, they have no effect at all provided money was (at any point in the past) paid under that contract."

You certainly are NOT providing resources for your claims. Then you go about making them vague. "Insanely high" is what percentage? Does that also say, however, that you admit getting a volume of "no feedback" contracts would affect your score? Apparently, I had that insanely high percentage at one point. You stating that "no feedback" contracts did not affect JSS was obviously incorrect by your own statements (if you can be relied upon as a source. That is why I said you were making stuff up...You don't know if it does or doesn't, but you make the claim that it does not...oops, and then say that it might.

I've also had a bunch of 'idle' contracts that were completed and clients did not close. We weren't talking about that. But I was warned by tech support not to close them and to have the client do it as closing from my end could hurt JSS. I left them open.

Forgive me for listening to the tech support people who should have better access to information than either you or I. On the other hand, unless you have definitive information, why are you sharing what you are supposing (i.e., making up)?

You may have lots of experience. That's wonderful. A guess is not a fact.

Moderator
Vladimir G Moderator Member Since: Oct 31, 2014
55 of 57

Hi all,

 

We've been following this conversation and I'll close the thread to further replies since the arguments have been exhausted and the conversation is moving into an unproductive direction. I'd like to thank all participants for their valuable input.

Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
56 of 57

Richard L wrote:


While Upwork has helped me adjust my life situation to some extent, I am growing more and more dissatisfied with the penny-pinching feel. If I am just one freelancer who has earned them at least $10,000 over the past few years in fees, why are they making it more costly for me to use their service rather than less?

 

Because there is no quick and easy way to design a system that treats you differently from the 100,000+ freelancers who are paying Upwork nothing while glutting the market with junk proposals. And, they have reason to be confident that most high-earners won't be deterred by the small price of connects.

Obviously, a dollar to apply for a job is nothing. $14 is a bit riskier, and really verging on stupid.

 

So, using your method of calculation, $1 is attributable to connects and $13 to your time. Presumably, the latter hasn't changed. So, you're saying that prior to charging for connects, the $13 worth of time was a reasonable investment, but this extra $.90 has tipped it over the line?

 

Why are clients not REQUIRED to respond?

 

What would you propose Upwork do to force them to respond? Go to their homes and stand over them while they click radio buttons telling you why they don't want you? Or just prevent them from posting additional jobs that might actually lead to hires and revenues?

 

If they don't or if they don't even read an application, why are those connects not returned? The freelancer's effort is not being respected at all.

 

Because returning connects makes it easier for more freelancers to bid on more jobs, which is exactly what Upwork doesn't want.

I'd be interested in the response of other people both pro and con the new "cost per application" as I don't see how it benefits anyone involved. And the hike in 'connect' rates is just awful. If I put in an application a day, each month that will cost me about $420. That is it subtracts from my working hours and costs me in connects. 

 

I don't care about it at all. The most intriguing thing about this post to me is that you were willing to invest $390 (the $13/day that was attributable to your time) but draw the line at $420.

Am I seriously the only one who looks at this as getting out of control?
No, but if the earnings you've claimed here are accurate, you seem to be among the very few high earners who feel this way. Most of the complaining seems to be coming from people who can't spare $10/month for connects.


 

Community Guru
Richard L Member Since: Dec 14, 2016
57 of 57

It is really nice that this 'community' often seems like a place where you shouldn't open your mouth for fear your tongue will get stepped on. Combativeness kudos. I believe I stated, and you conveniently edited -- or it was part of the thread -- that $1 isn't the point. They simultaneously raised the number of connects needed to apply for jobs and added cost. Who is it helping? The poor and competent workers who got all my Photoshop jobs because I refused to bid so low (I've authored nine books on the topic) were likely making pennies, and apparently, it was enough for them. I re-directed what I did to other skills I already have that had less competition. I already pay 20% of what I make on a successful application...Do they really need the extra $15?

You go tout your buddies who are not advocating for you all you want. That they are making the community more difficult makes no sense for the freelancers, the clients, OR Upwork, because if successful freelancers seek other venues, what do they gain?

I may be odd in that I do NOT like to be nickle and dimed. The ridiculously long pay hold-overs, the high per-job fees, VAT that I should not have to pay and now increased costs just to apply -- while raising requirements for posting jobs. You want your community to shrink, jerking people around is the best way to do it. I'm paying more and getting NO BENEFIT.

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