Connects

[matlow]

I just came back using Upwork and found out about "Connects", apparently I've beeing using my connects to users who don't bother declining proposals or closing jobs;
I've been withdrawing these proposal but a little to late (15days) and I'm not getting my Connects back.
Is there a way to earn these connects? Is the only way to purchase them? If applying to a job costs me nearly 0.10cents I start to doubt the profit I can make using your platform based on the numbers that actually replied to me.

[florydev]

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Matthew L wrote:

I just came back using Upwork and found out about "Connects", apparently I've beeing using my connects to users who don't bother declining proposals or closing jobs;
I've been withdrawing these proposal but a little to late (15days) and I'm not getting my Connects back.
Is there a way to earn these connects? Is the only way to purchase them? If applying to a job costs me nearly 0.10cents I start to doubt the profit I can make using your platform based on the numbers that actually replied to me.

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Well I think connects have been around forever, but since I am relatively new I could be wrong about that.  It kind of shows that people didn't think much about them when they got so many free.

It doesn't matter if you withdraw your proposal, you don't get your connects back for that.  You only get your connects back if the client closes the job on their own without hiring or Upwork removes the job for some reason (likely a violation of the Terms of Service).  That's it.

Framed like that connects are paying for the oppurtunity to propose.

Another thing you have wrong is connects cost $0.15 per connect and it takes a minimum of 2 (I believe) to apply and some jobs, many jobs, take as many as 6.

[matlow]

Dear Mark,

Thank you for your quick reply, 
I've been using Upwork for over a year and never encountered this problem when appling to a job,
If the only way to get Connects back is paying for them, with all due respect this looks like exploiting the countless people who are looking for a job, Upwork gave me work and its fair it gets its fees around the money I make, It looks pretty unfair that you require me to pay for applying to jobs given the ratio of proposals sent/accepted.
Is there at least a basic gain over time for these "Connects"?

Thank you 

Matthew

[hoyle_editing · Accepted solution]

Not sure what you mean by 'gain over time'?

Connects have been around for well over a year, so im not sure how you have not encountered them, the only difference is that you dont get free connects each month anymore. 

I dont think the move to charge for them exploits anyone, but it may require more thought be put into which jobs to apply for in order to not waste them on jobs that people are not 100% suited to.

[matlow]

I understand the point, probably I've been appling myself for some jobs I'm not 100% suited for and it makes sense you have a connect system;

I never encountered this problem probably because I was not abusing the proposal, anyhow I am going to try purchasing some of these connects and see what their actual profit would be;

It actually makes more sense, if you would still earn some of these Connects back over a period,

in order to guarantee the user a minimum of proposal and work so that they could actually buy and invest in these connects. 
Anyway I think we both get the point and there is no need to argue further, 
Thank you for your help and clarification.

[cgozon]

Hi Matthew,

I want to follow up on your case since we're the same here in a sense.

I started Upwork around 2010 (it was still oDesk back then). Same thing with you, I never encountered this problem before with free connects because I never abused them. I applied only to jobs I know I have a perfect fit for - maybe not 100% but at least jobs and niches I have knowledge on. But with the paid connects, it's just not making sense on my end.

I purchased 80 connects for $12 and I have 8 left. I have used this sparingly and spread it around Data Entry and Writing/Editing jobs. Of all the proposals I sent, only 4 responded and I only got 2 fixed-rate jobs that are even lower than my actual rate. I just accepted them anyway rather than not having any income at all.

For me, I am on the losing end. I spent not just money but also time. I filter out the job postings that I think I have more chance of getting hired but never got a reply. The clients don't even take time to reject/close the job to at least get our connects back. Some jobs require 6 connect while most of them requires 4.

That happens even with my profile status: Top rated, 98%JSS, and with many good reviews. I don't know about others but I am just not getting my usual success in applying for jobs.

Keep me posted. I want to know how it went for you.

Thanks,

Cherie

[matlow]

Hi Cherie,

I fully understand why the connect system was brought in place.

This beeing said, I decided not to purchase connects: I did a little summary of well suited jobs that I applied to, based on non replies numbers\ sent request I see that it makes no sense to purchase any of these connects. I might be wrong but at this moment I don't have any source of income and I learned to distrust systems that require you to pay in order to find jobs.
I really should say and underline that Upwork helped me through some rough years giving me work when I could not locally find it. Only at this moment I don't see the convenience in buying tokens that would permit me to apply to jobs that have so few chance of hiring and give me profit.

Best of luck Cherie!

[cgozon]

I totally agree with you. There's an online job portal in the Philippines that doesn't require connects but they limit applications to 10 per day which, I think, is more helpful. Got a reply out of the 4 applications I sent out compared to the 4 replies I got out of my 80 connects. And that's not even JOBS; just replies and then never heard back from the client. Lesson learned here.

[AveryO]

Hi Michael, and Cherie, 

I undrestand why shifting to the new system maybe difficult for you. Submitting a proposal has a financial cost, just like the other expenses you incur as a freelancer running your own business, and we ask that you consider the cost of Connects as part of your business expenses.

[ssylwira]

I also can understand why there is a connect system, but still I think connects should be free for newcomers just untill they get their first job. It's almost impossible to get your first job with only 20 connects! Especially when most of the clients looks at your JSS or ernings which you dont have on Upwork 😞 There's so little jobs for newcomers and probably many newcomers to get them. I'm almost out of connects and still no first client... and I was choosing jobs very carefully.
There might be a limit of proposals sent at one time though.

[cgozon]

That's right, Bogna. And some jobs require 6 connects to submit a proposal. Even for those who have been on Upwork for quite a while now, it could be pretty difficult to get those jobs. 

[tlsanders]

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Bogna L wrote:

I also can understand why there is a connect system, but still I think connects should be free for newcomers just untill they get their first job.

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The problem with this is that it rewards the least successful freelancers. Those clients don't want to hire, and who aren't making any money at all for Upwork, would get the most free connects. And, thus, those undesirable freelancers would be most able to flood the market with junk proposals at no cost to themselves.

[ssylwira]

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Tiffany S wrote:

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Bogna L wrote:

I also can understand why there is a connect system, but still I think connects should be free for newcomers just untill they get their first job.

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The problem with this is that it rewards the least successful freelancers. Those clients don't want to hire, and who aren't making any money at all for Upwork, would get the most free connects. And, thus, those undesirable freelancers would be most able to flood the market with junk proposals at no cost to themselves.

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That's why I wrote about proposals limit. If you can have for example maximum 10 proposals submitted at one time you can't flood the market and have to choose jobs quite carefully.
I guess that many potentially very good and tallented newcomers are discouraged at the start by current system, I am. I dont think that is what Upwork really wants to do. The system should help finding your first client without a need to pay for it. After you finish your first job you at least get your JSS and some money to pay for next connects.

[tlbp]

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Bogna L wrote:

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Tiffany S wrote:

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Bogna L wrote:

I also can understand why there is a connect system, but still I think connects should be free for newcomers just untill they get their first job.

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The problem with this is that it rewards the least successful freelancers. Those clients don't want to hire, and who aren't making any money at all for Upwork, would get the most free connects. And, thus, those undesirable freelancers would be most able to flood the market with junk proposals at no cost to themselves.

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That's why I wrote about proposals limit. If you can have for example maximum 10 proposals submitted at one time you can't flood the market and have to choose jobs quite carefully.
I guess that many potentially very good and tallented newcomers are discouraged at the start by current system, I am. I dont think that is what Upwork really wants to do. The system should help finding your first client without a need to pay for it. After you finish your first job you at least get your JSS and some money to pay for next connects.

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Ah! Here's the flaw in your reasoning. Upwork doesn't really help freelancers find clients, Upwork helps clients find freelancers. So, unless there isn't an ample supply of qualified freelancers available to meet client demand, Upwork doesn't need to help or encourage new freelancers. It might be nice (for new freelancers) if every freelancer had a shot at landing a gig, but that's not the current business model. 

[ssylwira]

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Tonya P wrote:

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Ah! Here's the flaw in your reasoning. Upwork doesn't really help freelancers find clients, Upwork helps clients find freelancers.

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Oh, I didn't know this. I thought Upwork is for both employers and frelancers to help find each other and that we are both clients of Upwork in the same way. My mistake, now I see it's not the case. We frelancers have to serch through so many, not nececerly good or serious job offers, because anyone can add it for free (I know I can report it, but still I need to reed and analyze it first and loose precious time) and than pay for contact, but basic clients can get almost only top proposals totally for free.

[petra_r]

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Bogna L wrote:

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but basic clients can get almost only top proposals totally for free.

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If you had ever posted a job you'd know that the vast majority of the proposals a client gets are absolute garbage and going throug them to sort the "top proposals" from the garbage is a painful and time consuming process.

[ssylwira]

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Petra R wrote:

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Bogna L wrote:

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but basic clients can get almost only top proposals totally for free.

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If you had ever posted a job you'd know that the vast majority of the proposals a client gets are absolute garbage and going throug them to sort the "top proposals" from the garbage is a painful and time consuming process.

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Is it still like this after paid connects were implemented? I still think that limiting number of simultanous proposals would be a better solution, than making freelancers pay for them.

[petra_r]

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Bogna L wrote:

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I still think that limiting number of simultanous proposals would be a better solution, than making freelancers pay for them.

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What, so clients get the copy-pasted garbage and are then not getting the good proposals because the good freelancers take time to apply or may not have seen the job yet.

Dreadful idea for all but the bottom of the barrel freelancers who have nothing better to do but to hover over the job feed and shoot off template proposals.

Those are always the first that come in.

[ssylwira]

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Petra R wrote:

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Bogna L wrote:

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I still think that limiting number of simultanous proposals would be a better solution, than making freelancers pay for them.

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What, so clients get the copy-pasted garbage and are then not getting the good proposals because the good freelancers take time to apply or may not have seen the job yet.

Dreadful idea for all but the bottom of the barrel freelancers who have nothing better to do but to hover over the job feed and shoot off template proposals.

Those are always the first that come in.

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But still that 'bottom of the barrel freelancer', if has some mony, can buy 100 connects at one time and send dosens of those copy-paste proposals with them. But having a limit of 10 he can't send more of them at once, have to withdraw some of them, or wait untill the end of job offer.
And remember that I'm suggesting this solution only for newcomers, just untill they're recognised. You can also add a time limit, a month or so. It's just to give newcomers a chance to proove themselves.

[petra_r]

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Bogna L wrote:

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And remember that I'm suggesting this solution only for newcomers, just untill they're recognised. You can also add a time limit, a month or so. It's just to give newcomers a chance to proove themselves.

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They have a chance to prove themselves. They can buy connects the same as everyone else.

Off topic alert ON: You are terribly talented and will do very well if your persevere. This makes me want to write a childrens' book about a little centipede who is always late to school because he takes so long to get dressed, the next one would be of him tying dozens of shoelaces.... How fun would that be? 

(Hope you don't mind me borrowing him for this post, he's just the cutest thing ever.)

My (entirely unsolicited) advice would be to UP your hourly rate. Off topic alert OFF

[ssylwira]

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Petra R wrote:

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They have a chance to prove themselves. They can buy connects the same as everyone else.

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But for the same number of connects they have much lower chance of beeng hired without Upwork history. So they have to spend probably few times more connects than regular Upwork freelancer with JSS, Upwork ernigs and so on.

[petra_r]

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Bogna L wrote:

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Petra R wrote:

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They have a chance to prove themselves. They can buy connects the same as everyone else.

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But for the same number of connects they have much lower chance of beeng hired without Upwork history. So they have to spend probably few times more connects than regular Upwork freelancer with JSS, Upwork ernigs and so on.

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True, but the good ones will get there quickly enough and the not-so-competent ones will give up, which I guess is the idea to a degree.

[ssylwira]

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Petra R wrote:

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True, but the good ones will get there quickly enough and the not-so-competent ones will give up, which I guess is the idea to a degree.

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The problem is, that I have only 3 connects left, no job and no money to buy connects, how can I persevere?

[grimesr]

I am going way out on a limb and make a statement that will surely get many un-kudos, but

My bias:

1. I think I am a succesful freelancer here, I get jobs

B. I don't work as a freelancer for money

iii. I have been independent for a lot of years

I hear the newcomers stating they can't afford the connects. Last I checked, I can get 80 connects for $12USD. That is about 2 cups of coffee for those who can stand drinking it. I don't see how that is a career breaking amount. 80 connects could possibly fund 40 proposals if used wisely or at least 12 bigger connect jobs.

I don't understand how you can magically get jobs without a bit of investment. You take time to create a profile, you search for client's jobs; that all takes your time which is the same a an investment.

I just don't understand the issue with spending a very few dollars to futher a career you think is where your talent is.

Ok, I will take all the flack and I will listen to why my thinking is all wrong. That is how I learn, so go for it!

[petra_r]

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Robert G wrote:

Last I checked, I can get 80 connects for $12USD. That is about 2 cups of coffee for those who can stand drinking it.

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It would be between 14 and 18 cups of coffee here in Southern Italy.

It is also what people working at or near minimum wage in many countries would work a week for.

$ 12 is literally nothing to you or to me.

To others it's a lot of money, it would be kind not to patronize those.

[moonraker]

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Bogna L wrote:

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Petra R wrote:

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True, but the good ones will get there quickly enough and the not-so-competent ones will give up, which I guess is the idea to a degree.

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The problem is, that I have only 3 connects left, no job and no money to buy connects, how can I persevere?

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You will need to find some money with which to buy connects - or start looking elsewhere for work. 

As mentioned, introducing paid connects is designed to deter the less able freelancers from applying to jobs. IF you fall into that category and you are forced to leave the platform then Upwork might argue that the paid connects system is working as designed.

IF you don't fall into that category, then you should be more confident of a return on your investment should you find some money.

It may sound harsh, but Upwork aren't going to help individuals that are struggling - they are more inclined to reward those that are doing well. 

[jewelcadman]

I agree with you ! Several years before it was better, when every month you got 20 connects free. It was also solution and some help for begginners.

[gilbert-phyllis]

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Bogna L wrote:

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Tiffany S wrote:

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Bogna L wrote:

I also can understand why there is a connect system, but still I think connects should be free for newcomers just untill they get their first job.

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The problem with this is that it rewards the least successful freelancers. Those clients don't want to hire, and who aren't making any money at all for Upwork, would get the most free connects. And, thus, those undesirable freelancers would be most able to flood the market with junk proposals at no cost to themselves.

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That's why I wrote about proposals limit. If you can have for example maximum 10 proposals submitted at one time you can't flood the market and have to choose jobs quite carefully.
I guess that many potentially very good and tallented newcomers are discouraged at the start by current system, I am. I dont think that is what Upwork really wants to do. The system should help finding your first client without a need to pay for it. After you finish your first job you at least get your JSS and some money to pay for next connects.

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What Tonya said. Also... You don't get a JSS until you've completed several projects for multiple clients, and your initial JSS needs to be quite high, otherwise it is difficult to build a successful UW practice. In any case, it is not easy to get established here nor should it be. In most categories, the supply of FLs far exceeds demand. The success of the platform for UW and for FLs depends on attracting as many high-quality clients as possible, which depends on clients' confidence that they will find high-quality FLs here. Nobody benefits if it's too easy for less-qualified, less experienced, and/or less capable FLs to set up shop. 

[ssylwira]

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Phyllis G wrote:

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What Tonya said. Also... You don't get a JSS until you've completed several projects for multiple clients, and your initial JSS needs to be quite high, otherwise it is difficult to build a successful UW practice. In any case, it is not easy to get established here nor should it be. In most categories, the supply of FLs far exceeds demand. The success of the platform for UW and for FLs depends on attracting as many high-quality clients as possible, which depends on clients' confidence that they will find high-quality FLs here. Nobody benefits if it's too easy for less-qualified, less experienced, and/or less capable FLs to set up shop. 

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Ok, I totally understand this logic, but really 'the supply of FLs far exceeds demand'? There are 114,604 job offers currently on Upwork and 43,321 have less than 5 proposals, it's much over 1/3.
I'm sure there are clients that would prefer a cheaper newcomer, than expensive top freelancer.

[prestonhunter]

re: "I'm sure there are clients that would prefer a cheaper newcomer, than expensive top freelancer."

I'm sure you are right about that.

Is that not an option for clents already?

[ssylwira]

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Preston H wrote:

re: "I'm sure there are clients that would prefer a cheaper newcomer, than expensive top freelancer."

I'm sure you are right about that.

Is that not an option for clents already?

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Of course there is, but you need some good newcomers to choose from. And for now you'll probably get most proposals from those 'bottom of the barrel freelancers' who have and can spend some money on connects, not real newcomers with only 20 connects for start and no funds to buy more. Having more money doesn't necessarily mean having more talent.

[tlbp]

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Bogna L wrote:

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Preston H wrote:

re: "I'm sure there are clients that would prefer a cheaper newcomer, than expensive top freelancer."

I'm sure you are right about that.

Is that not an option for clents already?

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Of course there is, but you need some good newcomers to choose from. And for now you'll probably get most proposals from those 'bottom of the barrel freelancers' who have and can spend some money on connects, not real newcomers with only 20 connects for start and no funds to buy more. Having more money doesn't necessarily mean having more talent.

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There are freelance platforms that offer different methods to get started. This just isn't one for freelancers who are new and cannot afford to invest in building their business. You can wish it were different, but it is unlikely to change. Besides, how is it those bottom of the barrel freelancers can afford to keep bidding? If their work is poor, they will get bad reviews and a low JSS and won't be hired. Are there really wealthy, yet unskilled freelancers out there who are willing to buy connects just so they can bid on low-paying jobs? Is it some kind of bizarre hobby they are pursuing? 

All your arguments come down to: 
I want to get work via this platform

The platform should be modified to optimize the chances for someone with my exact characteristics and circumstances to succeed

[prestonhunter]

Bogna:
The platform really DID change in a major way during the past year, when freelancers began to be charged for connects.

In a philosophical sense, I preferred it the way it was before. There was a genuine "purity" to how the platform charged absolutely nothing in order to set up a profile and bid on jobs.

If you feel like things are harder now for newcomers, you are correct.

If you feel like things are much harder for newcomers as compared to established freelancers, you are correct.

I think it will help you to understand why Upwork does what it does if you keep in mind that Upwork's main goal is not to help newbie freelancers. Or any freelancers. Upwork's main goal as a business is to earn money from clients. Upwork wants to please clients, and collect money from them in the form of fees from payments they pay to freelancers.

If Upwork felt that clients would genuinely benefit from having more newbies, and from giving free connects to newbies, I think Upwork WOULD do that. As much as many freelancers do not like the "paid connects" concept... I think Upwork really is doing this in order to improve the client experience.

When I post jobs as a client, I am able to hire great freelancers within minutes. No matter what time of day or night. No matter what day of the week. At this time, I do not feel like there is a shortage of freelancers, or a need for more newbie freelancers.

[tlsanders]

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Bogna L wrote:

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Ok, I totally understand this logic, but really 'the supply of FLs far exceeds demand'? There are 114,604 job offers currently on Upwork and 43,321 have less than 5 proposals, it's much over 1/3.

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Upwork recently took away our ability to see the number of freelancers in a given category (or maybe I just don't know how to find it with the new layout), but it used to be readily apparent and in any category I ever checked there were at least 10x as many freelancers as jobs--in many categories it was 100x as many freelancers or more.

You say here there are currently 114,604 job postings. It's widely publicized that Upwork has more than 2 million registered freelancers, so that means roughly one job for every 20 freelancers. There are far, far, far too many freelancers here.

That said, I agree with Petra's digression. I hire illustrators, and I'd be hesitant to hire you because your low rate suggests negatives like inexperience, lack of confidence, lack of professionalism, etc. That would be true anywhere, but it's particularly true on Upwork, where my experience has been that many people offering lower hourly rates take several times as many hours to complete a project as their higher-billing counterparts and require a lot more feedback and hand holding (and thus end up costing at least as much, but with a much longer and more painful process).

I suspect you'd have better luck if you roughly tripled your rate.

[ssylwira]

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Tiffany S wrote:

That said, I agree with Petra's digression. I hire illustrators, and I'd be hesitant to hire you because your low rate suggests negatives like inexperience, lack of confidence, lack of professionalism, etc. That would be true anywhere, but it's particularly true on Upwork, where my experience has been that many people offering lower hourly rates take several times as many hours to complete a project as their higher-billing counterparts and require a lot more feedback and hand holding (and thus end up costing at least as much, but with a much longer and more painful process).

I suspect you'd have better luck if you roughly tripled your rate.

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About hourly rates they're different in different counties. I'm hesitant of rising my rate because I know how thigs are in my country. There are also many cheaper job offers at Upwork and I was aiming for those just to start working. I don't expect that clients looking for experienced freelancers and willing to pay good money, would even look at portfolio of a newcomer like me and I'm not sure even if my portfolio is good enough. Of course I lack experience and I lack confidence, I'm a newbie here after all.

[petra_r]

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Bogna L wrote:

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I'm not sure even if my portfolio is good enough. Of course I lack experience and I lack confidence, I'm a newbie here after all.

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Your portfolio is, in my humble opinion, outstanding.

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Bogna L wrote:

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I'm hesitant of rising my rate because I know how thigs are in my country.

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You're not "in your country" here. You're on a global platform.

[thatwastaat]

Yeah im a newbie, I just spent 15 bucks to get a membership. Membership includes 70 connects. I thought its a good investment, but i was wrong. Since most of the proposals cost you 4 to 6 connects, you only have like 17 to 11 proposals to send. Now i just sent like 14 proposals and none of these clients are interested on me even if i offer the cheapest bid. It sucks man. I dont think this system is fair for newbies like us.

[tammni]

Also the Clients on Upwork are businesses, often much better off than us freelancers who just try to make few odd pennies here and there and end up even less after Upwork taking 20/10% of our income. So, for the sake of being only fair, why not roll some expenses on to Clients? That would also elevate the quality of the jobs while leaving out those who impulsively post a job and then forget about it. 

What comes to Connects. There are so many "abandoned" non-closed jobs hanging around here that it almost looks like Upwork has adviced Clients not to close the jobs so that freelancers would be wasting their Connects. It would be so easy to automatically close the jobs that the client hasn't checked for 2 weeks and no one has been hired, and reimburse the Connects to those who applied. If only Upwork wanted. 

[cgozon]

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Niina T wrote:

Also the Clients on Upwork are businesses, often much better off than us freelancers who just try to make few odd pennies here and there and end up even less after Upwork taking 20/10% of our income. So, for the sake of being only fair, why not roll some expenses on to Clients? That would also elevate the quality of the jobs while leaving out those who impulsively post a job and then forget about it. 

What comes to Connects. There are so many "abandoned" non-closed jobs hanging around here that it almost looks like Upwork has adviced Clients not to close the jobs so that freelancers would be wasting their Connects. It would be so easy to automatically close the jobs that the client hasn't checked for 2 weeks and no one has been hired, and reimburse the Connects to those who applied. If only Upwork wanted. 

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I agree on this one. I read through some materials and I felt like I was assured I would get the connects back if the job is closed or someone is already hired. But I think I never go any connects back - maybe because clients never closed any posting. I tried to follow up with some of them and they will just reply that it has been closed. I tried to withdraw the proposal (just to see if I get any connects back since the job is already closed), but there's none.

[AveryO]

Hi Nina, and Cherrie, 

Thank you for sharing your sentiments about the Connects. I would like to note that Upwork does not advise their clients to post jobs, and abandon these jobs. Please know that we return Connects when a client closes their job without hiring or we find a job post has violated our Terms of Service. To explain it further, if a client doesn’t hire and closes their job post, any Connects used to submit a proposal will be returned to you. However, if they do not close the job, no Connects will be returned. 

We understand this isn’t ideal, and we regularly reach out to clients who have open job posts to encourage them to close them if they don’t intend to hire. Because we know the move to paid Connects has made this issue more important, we have already ramped up our outreach to clients who post jobs and don’t hire, and are looking into other ways to better ensure these jobs get closed so your Connects are returned in these cases.