Contract Paused

[dobrunaeli]

Hi,

Today I found one of my hourly contracts paused, the client just paused the contract without explanations.

I contacted him with an email and the response was that I had received unauthorised payments, because it was supposed that the contract was a fixed price contract and not a hourly contract. I'm really confused, because I'm working on this project since november and now he's asking all the money back. During this 4 months he also gave me bonuses every month based on my performance. Now he says that the bonuses were the payments for my monthly work and that he doesn't pay with hourly contracts.

What can I do? I don't want to affect my JSS, but this is unfair. He can't just wake up one day and say that this contract is not what he supposed.

I really need your advices.

Thanks,

Elisa

[g_vasilevski]

Hi Elisa,

Unfortunately I can`t advise you about the steps you need to take, since I`m not familiar with the details of your contract. I can advise you to communicate with your client directly and try to resolve the problem. If you can't find a solution, you can decide how you would like to proceed. If you delivered the work as agreed, in line with the contract terms you can opt to reject the refund request and initiate a dispute.

Note that when a client asks for a refund you will have 7 days to respond back, if you reject the refund both parties will be moved to our meditation process. I can also advice you to check out this Help Article and learn more about how you`re protected in this cases.
The client has the capacity to reach out to Upwork for a contract to be mediated if the funds were released within the last 30 days. Our section 8.2 under the Dispute Assistance Policy that can be found Here.

[petra_r]

Goran, what you are saying applies to fixed rate contracts, not to hourly ones.

the client can really only dispute the last week’s hours, but if this was a real misunderstanding where the client thought he was paying you monthly “bonuses” as the real payment and didn’t notice that he was also paying by the hour, it could get more complicated, depending on how determined the client gets to get his money back.....

Reading the job description it is quite clear that the client had intended to set up a fixed rate contract, actually. The wording makes that clear. Now obviously it was the client’s fault that they set up the contract wrong, but they did pay you both by the hour and per ticket (as explained in the job post) so essentially paid twice.

This may get interesting...

[elastella]

Both her November clients are really experienced. I don't believe they made a mistake and set up the wrong kind of contract. Also, both jobs were advertised as hourly.

[petra_r]

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@Ela K wrote:

Both her November clients are really experienced. I don't believe they made a mistake and set up the wrong kind of contract. Also, both jobs were advertised as hourly.

---

If you read the job post it very clearly describes a fixed rate contract “$ X.XX per ticket” - This may have been sharp practice or accidental, no idea, but it is clear the client intended to pay fixed rate (his fault for getting it wrong)

Many client’s try to get around the need to fund a milestone by setting up hourly contracts and then paying by bonus at the end of the month, which is (in my opinion) sharp practice but not forbidden as such. They tend to set the max weekly hours to 0 in such cases, usually.

The whole point is moot now as she has already agreed to the refund, so it will be hard to come back from that.

[dobrunaeli]

I actually haven't accepted to give a refund on Upwork, this was just an email communication, but after that he calculated that I have to work 75 days, 8h/day without being paid, to give him back all. I'm not going to accept this, I'm just going to ask him to open a dispute.

[petra_r]

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@Elisa D wrote:

I actually haven't accepted to give a refund on Upwork, this was just an email communication, but after that he calculated that I have to work 75 days, 8h/day without being paid, to give him back all. I'm not going to accept this, I'm just going to ask him to open a dispute.

---

It doesn’t matter whether you accepted on Upwork or accepted on E-Mail, there is written proof that you accepted.

Clearly asking you to work 75 8 hour days without any pay is unreasonable, but that doesn’t make sense anyway. You have been working during that time so asking for ALL money back (rather than just what was “overpaid” ) is unreasonable.

Let him open a dispute. In the dispute he can only really dispute the hours from last week, but if he gets nasty it could get difficult.

[dobrunaeli]

I just responded him that I'm not going to accept to work 75 days without payment. Actually they are asking only for the overpaid money, they also sent me every month a review for my performance, I've received a performance review for November, December, January and now, they are also saying that I had a low productivity. Well, if the contract was a mistake, how could they not notice the productivity that were they responsibility to calculate and they personally sent by email every month?

Anyway I asked him to open the dispute, I'm sure that is not my fault.

[dobrunaeli]

Hi Petra,

The client hasn't replied to the email where I asked him to open a dispute. Do I have any option to open a dispute? 

[elastella · Accepted solution]

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@Elisa D wrote:

Hi Petra,

The client hasn't replied to the email where I asked him to open a dispute. Do I have any option to open a dispute? 

---

Why would you want to file a dispute? About what? As far as Upwork is concerned, nothing has happened yet.

Since your client wants something from you, it's up to them to take official steps.

[elastella]

---

@Petra R wrote:

---

@Ela K wrote:

Both her November clients are really experienced. I don't believe they made a mistake and set up the wrong kind of contract. Also, both jobs were advertised as hourly.

---

If you read the job post it very clearly describes a fixed rate contract “$ X.XX per ticket” - This may have been sharp practice or accidental, no idea, but it is clear the client intended to pay fixed rate (his fault for getting it wrong)

Many client’s try to get around the need to fund a milestone by setting up hourly contracts and then paying by bonus at the end of the month, which is (in my opinion) sharp practice but not forbidden as such. They tend to set the max weekly hours to 0 in such cases, usually.

The whole point is moot now as she has already agreed to the refund, so it will be hard to come back from that.

---

To me, it's not that clear at all: "You earn from 5 to 7 cents for every ticket managed, you will be able to manage up to 100 tickets per hour" - that amounts to $7/h (best case scenario) and she was hired for $8/h. I, personally, wouldn't have questioned that either. 

This client that has spent $50k+. Their excuse is more than lame.

[petra_r]

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Ela K wrote:

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Petra R wrote:

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To me, it's not that clear at all: "You earn from 5 to 7 cents for every ticket managed, you will be able to manage up to 100 tickets per hour" - that amounts to $7/h (best case scenario) and she was hired for $8/h. I, personally, wouldn't have questioned that either. 

This client that has spent $50k+. Their excuse is more than lame.

---

Oh it is lame. When you read between the lines it also looks like either the 100 per hour is grossly overestimated and not realistic, or the OP is incredibly slow as calculating from the bonuses issued it’s pretty clear how many of those tickets were completed per hour....

[dobrunaeli]

I forgot to mention that during an internal communication for some changes on our work, I asked for a personal feedback for my performance and I never received a reply. 

[dobrunaeli]

I'm sending you how they sent me the productivity every month:

Quotes evaluated: 3507

Without bonus: 2667

With Bonus: 840

earned: 192,15$

So, the 0.05-0.07 per ticket was always calculated as BONUS.

And the 100 per hour was never mentioned as a target, because the don't have always a large number of tickets and the monthly review was never explained, they just always sent the bonus, but I cant see in the system how many tickets I've worked. So, they can manipulate this easily, but I never said nothing, just because it was only a bonus.

[elastella]

---

@Elisa D wrote:

I'm sending you how they sent me the productivity every month:

Quotes evaluated: 3507

Without bonus: 2667

With Bonus: 840

earned: 192,15$

So, the 0.05-0.07 per ticket was always calculated as BONUS.

And the 100 per hour was never mentioned as a target, because the don't have always a large number of tickets and the monthly review was never explained, they just always sent the bonus, but I cant see in the system how many tickets I've worked. So, they can manipulate this easily, but I never said nothing, just because it was only a bonus.

---

OK, I have to say it: your profile states that you currently work in HR (are employed?). That job started in July 2017 prior to your using Upwork, so it's definitely not the Upwork client. And yet you managed to work 528 hours on this project in less then 4 months (when in Nov did the job start?) - to me, that seems a lot.

But I haven't worked any long-term hourly jobs, so I wouldn't really know.

[dobrunaeli]

Ela, I work offline as HR on an Italian company only 2 DAYS PER MONTH offering an external service. I think that working 2 days every month doesn't influence on my ability to work every day on Upwork, don't you think the same? 

My client is not opening a dispute even if I invited him to do that.... maybe he already knows that he can't do this, because he has not REAL reasons for that.

[dobrunaeli]

I don't understand why he listed it as hourly contract and sent it as hourly contract. The other thing is that the person that hired me, doesn't work with this company now, so he cannot be responsible about the thing that he said or doesn't. I cannot understand how can this mistake last for 4 months?

[dobrunaeli]

The client hasn't asked the refund via Upwork, he just paused the contract. He didn't contacted me, but responded only after my email and now asks for the refund of all my 4 months earnings or to work for free until I will cover all the payments. I have to accept that initially I said yes, just because I was afraid for my JSS, but I've checked all the communications and all the things that he's saying now, were never mentioned in our previous comunications.

[tlbp]

You gave up $4500 to protect your JSS? JSS doesn't pay your bills! Did you use the time tracker for your hourly work? Bonuses aren't payment protected and neither are undocumented hours. 

You need to take a break and learn how to operate a business as a freelancer. If the client wasn't entitled to a refund, you should not have given one. Since you chose to give the refund, you are now obligated to honor that decision. 

In general, if someone isn't paying you, isn't communicating, or pauses a contract- don't invest time in working for them. Find paying contracts and manage them like a business owner (not an employee.)

This client may be running a scam, but you let him scam you. You can try to report the behavior, but I doubt that it will help you reverse a voluntary refund. 

I am so confused. What is it that has actually- officially- transpired? If the client hasn't formally requested a refund through Upwork and you haven't agreed via Upwork, then just keep your money and let the client initiate a dispute.  What good is a fabulous JSS if you end up $4500 in debt? 

[dobrunaeli]

Hi Tonya, 

1- I didn't gave up $4500 for my JSS, I invited the client to open a dispute. I'm not obligated to honor that decision, we were exchanging emails trying to find a solution, but when he said that I have to work 75 days 8h/day without being paid, I just responded that I'm not going to accept this.

2- I always used the time tracker and I have received all the payments regulary. I've also received all the bonuses that were added manually by the client.

3- You can check my profile and I've worked only with clients with verified payment method.

4- The problem with this client are not payments, but that he pretends that he wanted to pay me with a fixed price contract and not with an hourly contract. This doesn't make sense afte 4 months of cooperation and regular communication.

Thank you

[tlbp]

If the client signed off on hourly work every week, then it shouldn't matter what he pretended he wanted to do. Good that you still have the money. Let Upwork explain things to him. (Although-- bonuses aren't guaranteed and can be revoked at any time. So if you received most of your pay in bonuses, you aren't protected.)

[dobrunaeli]

I was paid for the hours, I've received only 400$ bonus