Contract Terms

[claire-bacon]

Just like a client can set a deadline for work to be done, can a freelancer set a edadline for all work to be done by and a project wrapped up?

And if so, would this timeframe be legally binding, for example at arbitration?

Thanks for your response.

[lysis10]

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Claire B wrote:

Just like a client can set a deadline for work to be done, can a freelancer set a edadline for all work to be done by and a project wrapped up?

And if so, would this timeframe be legally binding, for example at arbitration?

Thanks for your response.

---

Well, if you say to the client "I'll have it done by Friday" and you don't come through, then that's probably not a good idea. I have no idea if it will affect arbitration, but I suppose it would be possible that they might deduct cost for it. I don't know. It's up to the arbiter to decide. Best to give a reasonable timeline which includes some padding in case you don't make it.

[claire-bacon]

Thanks for your response but perhaps I didn't make myself clear. The
contract was set up so that client got a reduced rate on the premise that
it was all completed in 7 days. After 7 days the client was trying to drag
the project on for days longer so I just completed it to the best of my
ability given the client's instructions. Further requests such as waiitng
for photoshoots for design work that would have taken weeks to get done
were ignored. A PSD was supplied so that the client could add there changes
that were clearly outside of the timeframe was supplied.


I am discussing whether freelancers can stipulate a timeframe in the
contract - which an arbitrator would presumably consider the client to have
breached.

Does that make sense? Hope you can help.

[prestonhunter]

In all honesty, Claire... I don't think anybody can give you a definitive answer.

This question has never been asked or answered here in the Forum.

And Upwork representatives would not be able to answer your question, because arbitration is handled by a third-party, not by Upwork employees.

For me, personally, the question would not be if an arbitrator would consider a deadline that I set as a freelancer. The question would be how I will handle the client dragging his feet. When I set up fixed-price contracts, I do so knowing that I won't use arbitration as an option.

I would tell the client:

"Randall:

I hope everything is going well for you. As we discussed early on, there is a 7-day timeframe for this project. If you will go ahead and release payment for the work that has been done, then all of the work will belong to you, and you may use it as you wish. Please go ahead and do this within 24 hours. Otherwise, I will close the contract and ownership of the work will belong to me. You will not be able to use it, and I will be unable to provide further work or support for the project."

***

Note that this is not how I normally handle fixed-price contracts, because I do not normally set deadlines. I structure my fixed-price work in a way that means I can turn it in and get paid for it without waiting for a client do do anything. So what I normally do is just submit it and forget about it. If the client releases payment, that's great. If the client DOES NOTHING, then that is great too, because then I get paid automatically.

But in my suggested response, I'm trying to consider your specific situation, and how I would act if I was the freelancer. But let's be clear: If I close the contract, that means I'm intentionally walking away from the money. That isn't necessarily something that you will want to do. And this is not a GENERAL recommendation that freelancers do so.

[petra_r]

---

Claire B wrote:
Further requests such as waiitng
for photoshoots for design work that would have taken weeks to get done
were ignored. 

---

ignored by whom?

Leaving timescale out for a minute, was the work completed fully as per the contract or not?

[prestonhunter]

Note that as a freelancer, my fixed-price milestone tasks are not dependent on anybody else. That means that I can do the work, and submit them, without ever waiting for input or additional files or additional work from anybody else.

So if a project consisted of me writing a script and then the photographer taking pictures with models, and then me incorporating the photos into the website...

That would NOT be a milestone. That would be TWO milestones.

Milestone 1: I write the script, and submit it. (Then I get paid for it.)

Then... AFTER the photographer/model team has done their work AND PROVIDED me with the photos, I will agree to a second milestone...

Milestone 2: Incorporate photos into the website.

(With me, this would actually be two separate CONTRACTS.)

[lysis10]

---

Claire B wrote:
Thanks for your response but perhaps I didn't make myself clear. The
contract was set up so that client got a reduced rate on the premise that
it was all completed in 7 days. After 7 days the client was trying to drag
the project on for days longer so I just completed it to the best of my
ability given the client's instructions. Further requests such as waiitng
for photoshoots for design work that would have taken weeks to get done
were ignored. A PSD was supplied so that the client could add there changes
that were clearly outside of the timeframe was supplied.


I am discussing whether freelancers can stipulate a timeframe in the
contract - which an arbitrator would presumably consider the client to have
breached.

Does that make sense? Hope you can help.

---

The client can't interfere with the timeline and make it impossible for the freelancer to finish the job, but I definitely wouldn't go around saying I'll give a reduced price based on a deadline where the client's response timeline is a factor. I guess you can get into what is a reasonable response timeline? Where is the client located? If they are in Oz, 24 hours is probably a fast turnaround. So, you'd have 24 hours between responses. 

I think it would be unreasonable to say that you'll get something done in 7 days but that timeline depends on the client getting back to you in a few minutes. That's why you have to factor these things in.

I don't think someone could make a call on what an arbiter would do since there is another story to this (the client's side). My advice is to not promise discounts based on a timeline.

[feed_my_eyes]

If I'm understanding where you're coming from, I can see why you would want to do something like that; it can be difficult to manage your time and just plain annoying when contracts drag on. But the bottom line is that you're working for the client, not the other way around. If I were the client and a freelancer tried to impose deadlines on me - when I might have other priorities - then I wouldn't work with that freelancer again.

I try to manage my time by asking when the client's deadline is, then working backwards and telling them how much lead time I'll need in order to do a good job. If they don't get back to me by the agreed date, I follow up to let them know my availability (i.e. "i'm booked on Monday and Tuesday, but so far have good availability on Wednesday if you need any revisions"). But again, this is geared towards helping them, not helping me.

[petra_r]

I wonder if I understood this right:

1. Freelancer agrees to a reduced price for deliverables A,B,C dones to X standard provided it can all be wrapped up within 7 days.
2. Client agrees
3. Freelancer does A and B but C can't be done because the client is not sending the required whatsits to freelancer within the 7 days.
4. Freelancer submits the milestone incomplete, but as a Photoshop file with the freelancer helpfully telling the client to finish the job themselves when the required bits are available.
5. The client calls the job incomplete and asks for their money back
6. Freelancer disputes and subsequently goes for arbitration.

To be honest, I can see such a scenario go very seriously t*ts up in arbitration.

[feed_my_eyes]

Yeah, the only way that I could see this working is if it's framed as an incentive instead of a requirement. As in, the price will be $X, but if it's possible to finish by Friday, then I'll give you a discount.

But personally, I wouldn't go there. Any implication that a client is wasting the freelancer's valuable time (or needs to hurry up and finish the job) isn't going to go over well - never mind disputes and arbitration.

[lysis10]

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Christine A wrote:
Yeah, the only way that I could see this working is if it's framed as an incentive instead of a requirement. As in, the price will be $X, but if it's possible to finish by Friday, then I'll give you a discount.

But personally, I wouldn't go there. Any implication that a client is wasting the freelancer's valuable time (or needs to hurry up and finish the job) isn't going to go over well - never mind disputes and arbitration.

---

She said he wanted photos that would take weeks. I wonder if he did that knowing the timeframe would never happen. But if he did it after agreeing, I wonder who would be at fault? Freelancer would not be able to make the deadline after the client changed scope, but freelancer also just handed in a half product instead of just saying "well, my discount deadline doesn't apply then" and told him that part of the deal is off.

I wish I could be a fly on the wall for lots of these arbitration and mediation arguments.

[tlbp]

If the contract terms were 

Freelancer will do A, B, and C. Then the freelancer may lose arbitration for attempting to end the contract without completing A, B, and C. The fact that the client could have earned a discount for getting the information to complete C within a certain time frame is a separate provision. If freelancer wanted to void the contract if the materials weren't provided within 7 days, that's what the contract should have said. 
Now, there could be some argument made that the client is preventing the freelancer from fulfilling the terms of the contract. But, I would say that if the freelancer was savvy enough to offer a discount for quick delivery of materials, then they should also have been savvy enough to include a do or die deadline.