🐈
» Forums » Freelancers » Re: Curious: Really Bothered About Mediation ...
Page options
thirdmopera
Community Member

Curious: Really Bothered About Mediation (Dispute) Right Now UNFAIR

I have this current dispute that is ongoing and I feel I was really robbed. The amount is just too small for me to continue to arbitration which will not make any sense at all (financially because I will be required to pay a large fee for arbitration) I am just a poor man. I was really bothered about his "final conclusion" about the mediation as I feel that I was completely robbed and helpless. I seldom experience disputes throughout my career in Upwork and I was really bothered about this "no protection for freelancers", yes this is my sentiment I worked for the project for a month. Then after I submitted it to the client he ended the contract. I commend the mediator for politely assisting us throughout the process obviously the client does not want to negotiate at any point in time even I offered to fix it anything that he wants to fix. Then I was shocked a while ago upon seeing the probably final solution to the dispute (please see screenshots I removed the names of the client and the upwork employee for privacy). So if neither wants to continue the arbitration, either way, the escrow funds will be refunded to the client? Where is the justice here 🙂 The client got the work for free and I was totally robbed. Thank you I just want to voice out my frustration here. I wish you have better protection for us freelancers on this kind of scenario nobody wants to work for free.

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

19 REPLIES 19
petra_r
Community Member

If you have the money, pay for arbitration **FIRST** - that way the client will almost certainly pull out if the sum in Escrow is less than the arbitration fee, and you win the funds in Escrow, *and* the arbitration fee back.

I am just a poor man 291 USD is too expensive for me and the amount dispute is just a little over 100 USD (Total charge: 140.00, Total cost: 126.00) added the fact that the client is sending me a private message that threatens me that he will continue it to arbitration if I do not give up the dispute 🙂


Waldemar M wrote:

the client is sending me a private message that threatens me that he will continue it to arbitration if I do not give up the dispute 🙂


He is only doing that because he knows perfectly well that he will not go to arbitration so he is trying to bully you to drop out..

His exact words are "I will initiate arbitration etc. etc." then he is giving me 12 hours for me to give up if not he will initiate the arbitration. Well, I know that he will get his funds back and I will get nothing except if Upwork will offer me some courtesy credits. However, what I am pointing out here is Upwork should have better protection for us, freelancers, especially the top-rated ones. Those kind of decisions (the screenshot that I showed) is clearly only in favor of clients. I have been working here in Upwork for quite a while now and it is my first time to experience such a client that will abruptly end the contract without even trying to negotiate on the errors (if I have) Right now he got the work for free and my 1 month of labor was completely wasted. Thanks 🙂


Waldemar M wrote:

 However, what I am pointing out here is Upwork should have better protection for us, freelancers, 


By doing what?

Don't know Ma'am but I guess they must formulate something that will protect freelancers on those kinds of scenarios especially most of the people here does not have the capacity to pay for arbitration then what happens is the client gets the work completely free as the money will be refunded back to them 🙂 really unfair 🙂

Yes, some people can't afford the arbitration fee, but that's not a problem with the system. It's just a problem with people not having enough money in general. Little life tip: you should always have a few thousand lying in a savings account for emergencies. This doesn't necessarily qualify as an emergency, but if you don't have $300 to use on any given day, you're doing it wrong.

More relevant advice: stick to hourly contracts and use the time tracker. Clients can't ever screw you over as long as you use the memos correctly and log enough activity. You're top rated and your rates are affordable, so you shouldn't have too much of an issue convincing clients to go the hourly route.

Good advice sir appreciate that, however, there is still no guarantee if a freelancer will push through arbitration, so it only means that it is just a game of cards right there, crossing your fingers that you will win the arbitration.


Waldemar M wrote:

so it only means that it is just a game of cards right there, crossing your fingers that you will win the arbitration.


I have no experience with arbitration, but since Upwork is paying so much, I presume the external agency they use is competent. If so, it's not a "game of cards". Whoever is genuinely wrong will have the money taken from them. Therefore, don't bother entering arbitration if you're not sure whether or not you're entirely in the right. We don't know the client's side of the story, so we can't discern that for you.


Varun G wrote:

This doesn't necessarily qualify as an emergency, but if you don't have $300 to use on any given day, you're doing it wrong.

 


**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

Has it occurred to you at all that $300 US means very different things in different parts of the world? In your area, it is about 10% of the median monthly income. In OP's area, it is about 50% of median monthly income. In Veitnam, it represents more than two months of earnings at the median. 

 

So, to OP, what you are saying is the same as saying to your neighbor "If you don't have $1,500 available...." and to someone in Veitnam "If you don't have $7,000 available..."


Tiffany S wrote:

Varun G wrote:

This doesn't necessarily qualify as an emergency, but if you don't have $300 to use on any given day, you're doing it wrong.

 


**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

Has it occurred to you at all that $300 US means very different things in different parts of the world? In your area, it is about 10% of the median monthly income. In OP's area, it is about 50% of median monthly income. In Veitnam, it represents more than two months of earnings at the median. 

 

So, to OP, what you are saying is the same as saying to your neighbor "If you don't have $1,500 available...." and to someone in Veitnam "If you don't have $7,000 available..."


That thought has absolutely occured to me. Although I live in one of the world's most expensive cities, my parents originate from one of the world's poorest, and I've seen both worlds up close and personal. You can't just extrapolate numbers as far as you want and then put words in my mouth.

Anyone who is financially literate and has a stable job should have a few months' worth of living costs saved up in an emergency fund. I'd recommend 12 months, but 3 to 6 months is a minimum. This principle applies to poor hut owners in Delhi as well as wealthy millionaires in Singapore. Top-rated freelancers on Upwork fall somewhere in between.

$300 is far less than 3 to 6 months of living expenditure in any area that has internet access. If one doesn't have at least that much in liquid funds, then they are absolutely doing it wrong.



Waldemar M wrote:

the client is sending me a private message that threatens me that he will continue it to arbitration if I do not give up the dispute 🙂


That doesn't make sense.

He has no need for arbritation if it has already been decided funds would be returned to him. He doesn't have to do a thing. He's obviously concerned that you will continue, and is threatening to do the very same thing that he's requestiong you not to do. Baffling. 

Probably sir, well I was just wanting to voice out my frustrations regarding this kind of scenario although I will not lose my whole sleeve not getting paid on that job. The point is the 1 month that I wasted on that project and I will not get anything in return is really frustrating and sad. Upwork should have handled those kinds of scenarios in a much better way especially if the freelancer is top-rated or even not (as long as they had a good reputation and work ethics in upwork) specifically for people that do not have the capacity to pay for the 291 USD arbitration fee. I also found out that the certain client involved has also done it just recently on another freelancer when I looked on to his reviews on his profile/job post meaning that the client is really rude and makes no sense just abruptly ending the contract. Thanks.


Waldemar M wrote:

I am just a poor man 291 USD is too expensive for me and the amount dispute is just a little over 100 USD (Total charge: 140.00, Total cost: 126.00) added the fact that the client is sending me a private message that threatens me that he will continue it to arbitration if I do not give up the dispute 🙂


They say sooo many things to try to manipulate you into backing down. I get a laugh over it now because it's ALWAYS the same crap from them. "I will pay you nothing if you keep fighting this. I am going to report you. It's not my money I can't decide on how much to give you. You're so unprofessional. You're so rude. blah blah blahhhhhhhh"  LIke for real I hear at least one of those things or a couple of them in every dispute. 

Obviously it doesn't matter if the client is "rich" or "poor".


If a client can not afford to pay for a fixed-price contract, the client should not be hiring a freelancer using a fixed-price contract.

 

If a client funds a $100 escrow task, they need to assume that they will never get that money back.


No different than if a patron goes into a restaurant and orders a $100 meal.

 

Once you ordered that meal, or hired that freelancer, then assume that the money is gone forever.

 

Are there some rare exceptions in which you might get some money back? Yes. But don't count on it.

 

If you order that meal thinking you'll be clever and pull a hair out of your head and put it on your plate and ask for a refund... or if you hire a fixed-price contract and think you'll be clever by claiming you "don't like the work" or that you will accuse the freelancer of "not doing the work"... then that makes you a thief. You MIGHT get away with it. But don't count on it.

I appreciate all your good replies thanks for the support. Although, it is really evident that I will not be paid for the job that I have done because I do not have any money for arbitration and etc. This is just like an eye-opener here that I guess Upwork should handle situations better when it comes to mediation especially if the freelancer is top-rated or highly-credible enough. I am not saying that they must give every  dispute an "escrow courtesy credits" for freelancers that are in the process of dispute but what I am saying is they must see the performance of the freelancer based on their profile and if there is no way that the client will pay for the job in dispute. They must be ready to have some sort of "courtesy credits" not by just saying that "neither parties will push through arbitration the escrow funds will be refunded to the client etc. etc." this becomes so unfair for the freelancer. I have done the job for 1 month and it is easy for the client to say a lot of excuses the money is supposed to be used for my bills and food for my family and if I know that I will not be paid for it I have just spent my time doing other projects or selling something in the market to make money. Thanks again appreciate the good replies co-freelancers even though I was really frustrated about this I felt really good that there are still people who are very kind and against to such kinds of inhumane acts 🙂

Waldemar, I do get how stressful this is, but you do understand that "courtesy credits" are not actually "credits" but cash money that Upwork takes out of its own pocket and gives to you? Situations like this arise many, many times per day. If the client got a full refund, that means Upwork was paid nothing. Then, if they issue a "courtesy credit," they pay out money.

 

How long do you think Upwork will stay in business paying out its own money to every freelancer in a situation like this while earning no fees on the job?

Yes Ma'am that's correct, maybe they should screen properly the ones that are credible for it or probably integrate some ads on the site in order to have some funds to protect freelancers because escrow protection is useless in situations like what happened to me..hmm or think of another way to have some freelancer protection, I don't know but what I experience is mediation is always in favor of the client if you do not have some money to pay for the arbitration fee, that's what I am seeing based on what I experienced.


Waldemar M wrote:

 I don't know but what I experience is mediation is always in favor of the client if you do not have some money to pay for the arbitration fee, that's what I am seeing based on what I experienced.


In effect, that's true, but it's not really because anything is "in favor of the client." It's because under the terms of escrow, there are only certain circumstances under which Upwork can release funds to the freelancer. It cannot give that money to the freelancer if the client objects. So, if no agreement is reached in mediation, then the freelancer would need an order from the arbitrator for Upwork to be able to release the funds to the freelancer.

Latest Articles
Featured Topics
Learning Paths