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yasirazeem77
Member

Currency Exchange Rate Highly Unacceptable!!

Hello Everyone.

 

Tell me how this thing is fair? Currency Exchange rate now a days is 104.7 per dollar. Online. but Upwork claiming that it has the latest exchange rate which is around 99.3 per dollar... Isn't that really really unfair??

First we pay upwork a 10% on our every earned money. Then there is a transaction fee which is $4.99. After that the exchange rate this low??

 

This is sooo not fair.

 

Tell me if I am wrong. You can compare the exchange rates of Payoneer and Paypal. They are way better than this.

 

Thanks

37 REPLIES 37
kjscostello
Member

I've raised issue with this before. Initially, I suspected that Upwork applied fees to the exchange rate.

 

However, a mod informed us that Upwork does not charge fees, and that it is their bank which is responsible for the unfavourable rate. The question is, why does this bank have consistently lower rates than any other mainstream bank, or even online providers that charge additional fees within the conversion rate (Paypal, Payoneer, etc.)

 

Basically, it'd be helpful to A) know which bank is being used and B) have the choice to not have the conversion take place pre-transfer, thereby allowing our own banks to convert the incoming currency (however, I'm not really aware of the technical or legal implications of this).

Feels so awesome being in the US right now.

Yeah I seriously envy any US freelancer working on here. 

I'm in Canada, and I personally love the exchange rate since I make more.


@Amanda F wrote:

I'm in Canada, and I personally love the exchange rate since I make more.


Umm, there is no way you are making more. Not talking about the USDCAD rate itself, but the difference in upwork and market rate. 

 

The converion from USd into CAD (or any other currency) always hurts you. The rate of conversion is always  less/more than the market rate depending on what hurts you. For example, currently 1 USD = 1.32 CAD, but Upwork will pay you 1.30 CAD. so you lost 0.02 CAD per 1 USD.

 

Ashish

Is that possible? If it is it will resolve the issue. Any memeber of upwork team should give a reasonable answer to this.

I am sure I am being dumber than dumb, but I seriously do not understand this thread.

 

I get paid in dollars to my PayPal account. I convert from dollar to euro when it looks quite propitious (these days, there is not much difference between dollar and euro). But I don't see where Upwork comes into this?

Problem is that PayPal isn't available everywhere. In some places we have to rely on the fund transfer method which upwork provides us. People who live in USA or those who have access to PayPal can breathe. But not as a whole.

There has to be some balance in this. 

 

Fair exchange rate should be provided. We are just loosing money for no good reason. 


@Nichola L wrote:

I am sure I am being dumber than dumb, but I seriously do not understand this thread.

 

I get paid in dollars to my PayPal account. I convert from dollar to euro when it looks quite propitious (these days, there is not much difference between dollar and euro). But I don't see where Upwork comes into this?


There is a 10% difference. 1 Euro buys 1.09ish USD at fair market rates. Other way round 0.9 Eur per 1 USD. Buy paypal will eat some margin and pay you .87 or .88 Eur per USD instead of the fair 0.90 Eur. 

Is there any forum we can raise this issue. Any way we can save this loss . . . .

The issue is related to direct local bank withdrawals. For me, this was an issue as I had hoped to withdraw dollars into a UK dollar bank acount. However, Upwork forces the conversion to local currency regardless. For others, it's an issue when Paypal isn't available. 

 

Any withdrawal direct from Upwork to a local account is unfavourable compared to all other available methods, including those that charge "hidden" conversion fees (like Paypal). 


@Shay C wrote:

The issue is related to direct local bank withdrawals. For me, this was an issue as I had hoped to withdraw dollars into a UK dollar bank acount. However, Upwork forces the conversion to local currency regardless. For others, it's an issue when Paypal isn't available. 

 

Any withdrawal direct from Upwork to a local account is unfavourable compared to all other available methods, including those with  charge "hidden" conversion fees (like Paypal). 


I disagree. I get charged $1.99 fixed + around 2% cost of conversion. I think this is lower than paypal. My currency is indian rupee. 

Hi Shay

 

I can comfirm that Upwork does apply the fees they want to the exchange rate:

 

On a similar tread, Vladimir G wrote:

 

...the difference in exchange rates is not something Upwork can control.

 

Ok, if that is the case, how come I get the same exchange rate in two different banks, in two different countries?

 

I have 2 bank accounts in two different countries (Im moving out from one of them) and to make the test, I sent $ to both of them to see the exchange rate:

 

1country - Spain:

Exchange rate on 06-01-2016 12:03 UTC: 0.8795 EUR/USD

 

2country- France:

Exchange rate on 06-01-2016 12:03 UTC: 0.8795 EUR/USD

 

This is why I'm taking my clients out of Upwork, bunch of liars!!!!

Every business in their financial statement has a 'Currency loss' section. If you work with clients overseas or in other countries, there will be currency loss (solely due to currency exchanges). There's no way to avoid it. I've long ago calculated my monthly loss when exchange is applied in my bank, but there's very little I can do.

 

I'm particularly sensitive about how these exchanges feed the greedy banks, that are greedier than any corporation, but seriously - that's it. It's no surprise people have wet dreams about digital and crypto-currencies in the future.

 

EDIT: What I really wish to see it for Upwork to give us the freedom to choose in which currency we want our money sent to our local bank (I use LFT). I already have a USD bank account, and it would have been the best if Upwork didn't exchange my USD -> EUR, which would then go to the USD account and be exchanged one more time, EUR -> USD.

 

I want to have that freedom. I don't want my USD money, earned here, to be exchanged to EUR. I spoke to a CS rep, but didn't really get any promising reply. The least I can do is have an account in EUR. Although I'd so love to have my USD!!! ๐Ÿ˜ž The exchange rate (not via bank) is very favorable, because the USD is relatively strong now.  With one more rate hike possibly this Sept, things may get even better.


@Alvaro B wrote:

 

Ok, if that is the case, how come I get the same exchange rate in two different banks, in two different countries?

 

I have 2 bank accounts in two different countries (Im moving out from one of them) and to make the test, I sent $ to both of them to see the exchange rate:

 

1country - Spain:

Exchange rate on 06-01-2016 12:03 UTC: 0.8795 EUR/USD

 

2country- France:

Exchange rate on 06-01-2016 12:03 UTC: 0.8795 EUR/USD

 

This is why I'm taking my clients out of Upwork, bunch of liars!!!!


The exchange rate is applied by Upworks bank in case of LFT and not by your bank or Upwork itself. The exchange rate depends only on the currency involved, in your case its the Euro for both. Hence the exchange rate offered by Upwork's partner bank is the same for both your transactions.

 

I get an exchange rate of 2-3% from the market rate of my currency for LFT ,and Im happy with that. Woul be happier with 1.5% but whatever.

 

I can't comment on the other methods, however Payoneer supports local currency bank withdrawal in over 100 countries.  We convert funds using rates of only 2% above the official mid-market rates, which is in some cases more than 50% lower cost than alternatives.

 

If you have any questions about Payoneer feel free to ask.

Director of Community at Payoneer

Yes about Payoneer I've been thiking. Infact I've the received the card too.

A few issues are there too. Like Activation Fee... Its around $30? Isn't it too much?

Then per transaction there is a withdrawl fee? There was something called fast load and slow load... 

ATM chareges are there... So many complexities are there so I got confused.

 

Can you help me with this?

Yes, if you signed up for the Payoneer card there is an annual charge of $29.95. Receiving payments from Upwork is free and available after 2 business days, or you can pay $2.50 to have funds available immediately.

 

If you don't want the Payoneer card and only want to withdraw funds to your bank account you can sign up on our website and choose the local bank option. Then you pay no annual fee, and withdrawal to your bank is free per transfer (there is only the currency conversion).

Director of Community at Payoneer

I think without card would be better. But now since I've received a card from Payoneer, is it necessary for me to activate it? Or I just can add my local bank account onto payoneer website? 

 

What are the Currency conversion charges for USD to PKR?

 

Thanks for your response.

@Yasir: We can update the account for you. Please reach out to community@payoneer.com with a summary of this post and we will be able to assist you in getting it set up.

 

@Rene K: I totally understand what you mean and agree. I've been active on the oDesk (now Upwork) community for 5 years now, representing Payoneer. Our goal, as an official payment method on Upwork, is only to assist users with queries on Payoneer. There have been a few posts where community moderators confirm who I am, but even so I try to only give general information and for accoutn specific queries direct people to our official support channels. While I will of course read private messages, it's always best to get support via the official channels (they're much quicker than I am and can access Payoneer account details to assist with specific issues).

 

Here's a link to the community team on our official website: https://www.payoneer.com/about/community/

Director of Community at Payoneer

Thank you Nissim. I've just sent an email to Payoneer community.

Please do elaborate the currency exchange fee of Payoneer as if its the only fee I would be charged if I link my local account with my Payoneer account.

 

And where can we see the current currency exchange rate used by Payoneer?

Great, will make sure to have a team member get back to you shortly.

 

Yes, there is no flat fee when withdrawing to a bank account. We have an automated product when it comes to conversion rates, so we take 2% above the exact mid-market rate at the time of transfer (the time we approve your withdrawal request, which is usually within minutes to hours of your request to withdraw). Sites like XE.com, while not exact, are good at estimating this.

Director of Community at Payoneer

Thank you Nissim. This will definitely solve the issue for me.

However I've seen on upwork payment methods, there is written they will charge $2 per transfer to Payoneer.

How does this work?

 

And will Payoneer charge me with any initial fee? As I am not using the card. So i guess I don't need to activate the card so there shouldn't be any activation fee as well.


@Nissim A wrote:

 

(...)

You are the Director of Community at Payoneer. It is nice that Payoneer takes the hassle to come here and to talk with their clients. That is, if you really are who you claim you are. Which we have no way to tell.

 

People could use the private messaging feature of this forum to send you private information about their Payoneer account, which is OK if you are the Director of Community at Payoneer. But not if you are somebody else.

 

It would be nice if Upwork could give you a kind of official badge if you're an official from Payoneer.

 

Let's find out what they have to say about this...

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   โ€”William Ashbless


@Yasir A wrote:

Hello Everyone.

 

Tell me how this thing is fair? Currency Exchange rate now a days is 104.7 per dollar. Online. but Upwork claiming that it has the latest exchange rate which is around 99.3 per dollar... Isn't that really really unfair??

First we pay upwork a 10% on our every earned money. Then there is a transaction fee which is $4.99. After that the exchange rate this low??

 

This is sooo not fair.

 

Tell me if I am wrong. You can compare the exchange rates of Payoneer and Paypal. They are way better than this.

 

Thanks


Hi Yasir,

 

Yes the 5% difference is too huge to ignore. However, the less liquid (less traded) a currency the more charges banks levy for retail transactions. Fleecing retail customers is banks' bread and butter strategy. I would suggest you switch to another mode of payment.

 

Ashish

screeler
Member


@Yasir A wrote:

Hello Everyone.

 

Tell me how this thing is fair? Currency Exchange rate now a days is 104.7 per dollar. Online. but Upwork claiming that it has the latest exchange rate which is around 99.3 per dollar... Isn't that really really unfair??

First we pay upwork a 10% on our every earned money. Then there is a transaction fee which is $4.99. After that the exchange rate this low??

 

This is sooo not fair.

 

Tell me if I am wrong. You can compare the exchange rates of Payoneer and Paypal. They are way better than this.

 

Thanks


currency rates change daily. so what if uw said it's 99.3 per dollar. check online yourself to see what the exchange is and go with that.

 

you want something for nothing? not gonna happen. everyone has to pay the piper. if you don't like what you're getting back after upwork fees, then up your hourly rate so that you can make the amount you really wanted to make.

 

I pay upwork for the privilege of plying my trade. fair enough, because i don't have a personal online business yet.

 

i pay paypal because i don't trust that my bank will give me as much currency back as paypal does. i might be wrong, but i'll go with paypal until i know that bmo is better than ppal. 

 

be creative. find a way to get the money you planned on.  

 

if you can't get paypal or payneer, then you get what you get until time comes something better comes along. 

 

and no one here likes paying fees but it's what has to be. 

Everyone has to pay for some extra money. I get it. But some are paying less and some are more. 

I need to find the best way for this. 

 

For example. I want to withdraw $300 for now.

Currency rate globally is 104.7 per USD for me.

Upwork gives me around 99.3 per USD.

I am losing 6 cents per dollar. So overall I would loose $18 + $4.99 which is Transaction fee that upwork charges.

 

Just tell me why would I want that?

 

That is just unfair. 


@Yasir A wrote:

Everyone has to pay for some extra money. I get it. But some are paying less and some are more. 

I need to find the best way for this. 

 For example. I want to withdraw $300 for now.

Currency rate globally is 104.7 per USD for me.

Upwork gives me around 99.3 per USD.

I am losing 6 cents per dollar. So overall I would loose $18 + $4.99 which is Transaction fee that upwork charges.

 Just tell me why would I want that?

 That is just unfair. 


 Depending on how popular in international trade a currency is, the lesser are conoversion costs on any platform. EURUSD, GBP, Japnese yen will have lowest conversion costs.

 

The conversion costs for emerging country currencies will surely be more than the ones stated above. On all platforms. There is no getting away from that. Ideally speaking, if one has a USD account in home country and then uses a local bank to convert to local currency, the costs would be lowest.


@Mariska P wrote:
currency rates change daily. so what if uw said it's 99.3 per dollar. check online yourself to see what the exchange is and go with that.

you want something for nothing? not gonna happen. everyone has to pay the piper. if you don't like what you're getting back after upwork fees, then up your hourly rate so that you can make the amount you really wanted to make.

I pay upwork for the privilege of plying my trade. fair enough, because i don't have a personal online business yet.

i pay paypal because i don't trust that my bank will give me as much currency back as paypal does. i might be wrong, but i'll go with paypal until i know that bmo is better than ppal. 

be creative. find a way to get the money you planned on.  

if you can't get paypal or payneer, then you get what you get until time comes something better comes along. 

and no one here likes paying fees but it's what has to be. 


 Agree with your alternative suggestions, but paying 5-6% for currency conversion is plain crazy. You have to pay the piper, but not that much. Come on! I was an FX trader for 6 years, no one charges that much. 

 

However, Yasir you shouldnt check the prices of USDPKR, you should rather check the bid/ask rates which should usually be like 103/106. So, you should check the conversion cost with respect to bid price (103) and not the mid price (104.5). 

iaabraham
Member

I've also been wondering about this, but I guess it doesn't affect me because I get a wire transfer from Upwork to a USD account in here in Moz (also can't use Paypal).

 

It would be nice to get an official response to this issue though.

joy2111
Member

Hi Yasir,

 

I posted the same question a few months ago. I believe, due to the weakening US dollars against other currencies (at least to my currency), the US exchange rate at the moment is relatively lower.

 

The explanation I got was that, since the banks need to make profit they are offering lower rate at any particular withdrawal time. I lost about 6% in exchange rate, plus charged an additional fee of $3.99.

 

To be fair though, this seems acceptable because I get the money almost instantly (the latest in a couple of hours). Compared to another freelancer site which doesn't charge additional fee and with a slightly better conversion rate, it'll take them about 5 - 7 days for the money to arrive, which is kind of not so great.

 

 


@Joyce T wrote:

 

The explanation I got was that, since the banks need to make profit they are offering lower rate at any particular withdrawal time. I lost about 6% in exchange rate, plus charged an additional fee of $3.99.

 

 


 Whats the withdrawal time range during which charges are higher?

 

Thanks.

Ashish

Hi Ashish,

 

The fee for each direct transfer to local banks is always the same depending on which country you are in. In my case it's $3.99. Smiley Happy

I'm totally agree with you Joyce!

I think that maybe today US dollar is the weakest currency on the market, talking about the most used.

Today the exchange rate with Euro is less that 0,78 and drops down every week!!

Now, knowing that Upwork long-term contract starts with a certain value in USD at the time "x", the value will be too low at time "y" (let's say two months after for example).

With this problem, a freelancer that starts to work for a company will reduce progressively its income in the time.... and that's the inverse that happen in the job-world, because the worker earns more money as the time passes and with the gained experience.

I hope that Upwork's staff start to think to the possibility to use alternative currency as soon as possible.
Cheers.

walkerrowe
Member

Hi, We discussed this before in depth with actual examples showing how much you are bing charged.  In short Upwork is not making a currency exchange profit.  But everyone else who touches the transaction is, as that is their business.

 

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Exchange-Rate-Used-By-Upwork/td-p/127750

 

 

 

BTW Payoneer and Paypal are charging your about 4% - 6%.  Upwork 0%. There is pretty much no way to avoid that.  Even your bank (ATM) is charging what Paypal is charging (applies only if you have an account in some other currency).

 

regards,

 

Walker

Hi Walker,

 

I know Upwork doesn't make a profit (Upwork's bank does), but I have been charged variable exchange rates fees on my 3 transactions so far.

The first 2 transactions were charged 2% lower than the USDINR market rate (which is absolutely fine). But the 3rd one was charged 2.6% from the lowest market rate on that day. What gives?? That day the currency only moved 0.2%

highest to lowest rate. 

 

I am an FX trader, so I know what I am talking about. 0.6% extra for what joy? 0.1%, 0.2% or even 0.4% extra would have been ok. But 0.6% is too much to explain away. Oh and BTW, the rate was much lower than what I saw on the screen as indicative rate. And this was the biggest withdrawal of the 3.

 

I like consistency in transaction fees. If there is a specific time during which Upwork's bank charges more, I need to know it. What if Upwork's bank charges me 5% on a day on which I withdraw 2000$?? I am not prepared to give away 60$ more on top of 10% UW fees and 2% bank exchange fees.

 

I like LFT, i think it's better than paypal and payoneer. But I need transparency.

 

Edit: Mods, should I be withdrawing only during the window when USDINR market is open, to get lowest bank fees?

 

Regards,

Ashish

Hi again,

 

I'm no financial expert but here's what I know based on my experience.

 

Upwork's bank monitors the $ fluctuations during the whole day. When the rate goes down, they offer lower rate too. To begin with, they already offer an exchange rate that is way lower than anywhere else (but in my case, I'll see my money within minutes to a couple of hours - which made me think "well, this is acceptable").

 

There's no particular time where Upwork's bank will offer higher rate as it corresponds with the official rate, where then Upwork's bank will offer a way lower rate.

 

I'm talking only in case of direct transfer to local banks as that's the only method I use.

 

This was bothering me as well when I first started as I would end up losing about 6%. Since there's no way to get around it, I just look on the brighter side Smiley Happy