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cfd29ba2
Community Member

Customer treats me very badly, how to proceed?

I have a client who hired me for a test phase. From the beginning there were problems; he asked me for a minimalist logo. I started to make them by tracking time, and he called me after seeing the work diary to tell me that he didn't think I was going in the right direction. So far so good, but then he sent me an inspiration of what he wanted and it was EVERYTHING but minimalistic. If that's what he wants, ok, but he already started judging me for "not understanding what he wants" when he gave me unclear instructions.

 

We continued to work, he turned out to be very picky but I had no problem with this as I know it's something that can happen. In the contract it said I could work up to 40 hours a week. Once I got to nine, he changed it to seven and tried not to take over the hours already marked. That's when I started to get upset.

 

In the middle of the job, which was originally to do a logo and 10-15 frames, he asked me if we could do it for a certain amount. I said yes. Days later he changed the 10-15 frames to 252!!!! And he wanted me to do it for the same price.

 

After that, we started to discuss a lot. He sent me images that I couldn't open with Illustrator, so I told him that I had been able to fix it, but that's why it would take an extra half hour, just to let him know what was going on. His response was to practically insult me, to tell me that this is none of his business, that I have to solve my problems on my own, that this wastes his time (I didn't even track the time while we were chatting, so he didn't have to pay for it).

 

The straw that broke the camel's back was that after treating me badly thousands of times, I discovered that out of the 252 images he sent me to make the frames, there were 5 repeated. Then I wrote to him telling him that I had made 247, that there were 5 repeats, and that what should we do with this. His response was totally aggressive, telling me that if I didn't understand that there were 252 frames, that "I might be right" but that his goal in this testing phase was to see if he felt comfortable working with me. Which is fine with me, and if he doesn't feel comfortable working with me, why doesn't he just terminate the contract? I don't understand this need to belittle me. I don't know. It's totally irrational. Then he told me that I'm playing the victim, that this is a job for $5000 as if he wanted to make me feel guilty.

 

Obviously, there is no money that can buy the stress I go through these days, and even if he wants to continue working with me, I don't want to work with him, so I'll end the contract. What scares me is the bad score he could leave me, and I certainly don't want to give him a refund to avoid this, because I worked a lot to not be valued even from the economic side.

 

Sorry for the length of the message, but I am really worried about the situation. I work very hard to work with my clients, that is reflected in my JSS, so when I have this kind of bad experiences (which fortunately is not often but it has happened to me once before) I despair and do not know how to proceed.

 

Thank you very much in advance,

ACCEPTED SOLUTION
tagrendy
Community Member

I've had a similar client, who would blab nonsensical things and then blame me for not understanding because the "point of test phase is to see if we can understand each other". Basically it's my responsibility to understand his mutters. It's a trick, he wants you to feel guilty and scared, so you feel obligated to do free work for him. It is an abusing tactic, he probably gets off on it too. Do not, for a second, feel guilty or stressed. Feel angry - he wasted your time that you could've worked on a great project with a good client. If you have the top rated perk to remove feedback, use it. If not, the 2nd way feedback can be avoided is if he forgets to leave it or if you need to buy time until you become top rated. In this case you can just disengage from messages but not end the contract yet. By disengaging I don't mean simply not responding to him, I mean you don't read his messages either. Keep yourself out of his reach until you can get rid of him. Last case scenario is closing the contract yourself, he will leave a horrible review, at this point there is nothing you can do to negate the damage from it to your JSS. The only time a client's bad review doesn't have an impact is if they receive too many bad feedbacks from many freelancers. So all you could do in this scenario is leave him a bad feedback, report the client, if he left messages with insulting remarks, flag them in the messages, and include them in your report. Your report will help protect other freelancers who he will try to abuse. 

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9 REPLIES 9
valhamer
Community Member

Maria, it sounds terribly stressful, and I feel for you.

 

What's the current money situation? Are you working with milestones and cash is in escrow? Hourly tracked? Has he paid anything yet?

Val thank you! Yes, it was quite stressful. The contract is still an hourly contract, this arrangement of a certain amount for the trial phase was by word of mouth. If you have paid, Upwork debits you automatically. The problem is not that but how he mistreats me, and my fear is to end the contract and that he will leave me a very bad review. But I don't think I have any other option since I can't and don't want to work with someone like that

ericaandrews
Community Member

This was your first mistake:

"In the middle of the job, which was originally to do a logo and 10-15 frames, he asked me if we could do it for a certain amount. I said yes. Days later he changed the 10-15 frames to 252!!!!"

 

If he tried to change it from an hourly to 'fixed price' in the middle of the job, you should have said NO.  However, if you did agree, you should have made sure the new 'fixed price' contract had a milestone that specifically MENTIONED "1 log and 10-15 frames".  When he came and asked for 252 frames, you should have asked him/her to create one or more ADDITIONAL milestones to cover the cost of the additional frames.  If he/she refused to do that, you complete the 10-15 frames originally agreed upon in the initial contract, submit only THAT work for payment, then END the contract.

 

If you allow people to make radical changes to contracts already underway or agree to do additional work without additional pay/milestones, you are inviting trouble.   If he offered you a contract for $5000 for 1 logo and 10-15 frames, that is ALL he is entitled to.

If you do 252 frames, he's going to come back and ask for another 500 frames, etc.   The client is basically demanding FREE work and that is a ToS violation.  File a DISPUTE and a complaint with Upwork about the behavior and make sure he doesn't leave 'bad' feedback on your profile

Hi CJ A, thank you very much for your feedback. The client did not change the hourly contract to a fixed price contract, it was by word of mouth that we agreed to do the "test phase" for a certain amount. When he went from wanting 10-15 frames to 252 I told him that it was going to be difficult to maintain that price and he said money would not be a problem, but then he insulted me for going over the supposed budget. I told him that I would stop working if it was too much, and he told me that he thought I was, to offer him my charity work. in short... an abuser, I 'm going to finish de contract.

thanks for your help 🙂

jr-translation
Community Member

It is either an hourly job, then you only work the hours he covers for, nor a minute more and male sure you track everything properly.

 

If he wants a fixed rate contract, tell him to close the first and to invite you to an hourly contract in which he clearly defines each milestone. if he agrees, this would be a good moment to part ways. Remember, you are a FREElander.

 

If you acept the fixed rate offer, make sure the milestones are fully funded for the work requested. If you agree on 100 frames for $100 but he only funds $5, you do 5 frames and request the payment for them. Do not work on un- or underfuned milestones.

Yes!! Exactly.  When a client asks for 'more' than what they paid for, most times I do some number-crunching and respond "Absolutely, I can do that, and THIS is how much it will COST you."  They can decide whether or not to pay the extra money for the extra work, but if they don't PAY, then they don't GET it. Period. Freelancers or Independent Contraction does not equal "Volunteer work". Upwork is for conducting BUSINESS, not providing 'charity' services to folks that don't want to pay a fair price. 

tagrendy
Community Member

I've had a similar client, who would blab nonsensical things and then blame me for not understanding because the "point of test phase is to see if we can understand each other". Basically it's my responsibility to understand his mutters. It's a trick, he wants you to feel guilty and scared, so you feel obligated to do free work for him. It is an abusing tactic, he probably gets off on it too. Do not, for a second, feel guilty or stressed. Feel angry - he wasted your time that you could've worked on a great project with a good client. If you have the top rated perk to remove feedback, use it. If not, the 2nd way feedback can be avoided is if he forgets to leave it or if you need to buy time until you become top rated. In this case you can just disengage from messages but not end the contract yet. By disengaging I don't mean simply not responding to him, I mean you don't read his messages either. Keep yourself out of his reach until you can get rid of him. Last case scenario is closing the contract yourself, he will leave a horrible review, at this point there is nothing you can do to negate the damage from it to your JSS. The only time a client's bad review doesn't have an impact is if they receive too many bad feedbacks from many freelancers. So all you could do in this scenario is leave him a bad feedback, report the client, if he left messages with insulting remarks, flag them in the messages, and include them in your report. Your report will help protect other freelancers who he will try to abuse. 

Thank you very much for your answer, Tatevik!

 

You understood exactly what is happening to me. How can I delete the feedback if I don't do a refund?

 

If not, the second option that you indicate seemed to me to be very accurate. I will try to ignore him and let him forget to close the contract and leave me feedback. I hope it works! And if it doesn't, I will have no other option but to leave him a bad feedback, because the truth is that I always read the customer's profiles looking for warning signs, and since he was new, he didn't have any review and he gave me a very bad time. So maybe at least this way I can help other freelancers not to put up with his bad treatment.

 

Thank you!

Once you become a top rated freelancer, you will be allowed to remove 1 feedback of your choosing every 3 months. To become top rated you need to have 13 weeks of eligibility and earn $1000 in the last year. You can see how many weeks you've been eligible in your "my stats" page.

 

Please note that refunding will hide the "public" feedback client left, the private one will not be removed and will effect your JSS score. With top rated perk you can remove both - public and private feedbacks. 

 

Wish everything works out for you.

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