DEAR CLIENTS: The proposals ARE the interview.

[tanyalyntom]

Dear Clients,

On behalf of every freelancer, I ask you to please understand that the proposals ARE THE INTERVIEW.

Please do NOT respond to our proposals unless you have selected to work with us.

It wastes our connects.

It's disrespectful to our time.

If we wanted to "interview" for jobs in person we would be looking for W2 employment with INDEED or GLASS DOOR.

We get really prepared for meetings. DO NOT meet with us, and string us along when you already KNOW you'll be interviewing in person 15 more people and ask us to wait a week to hear back from you. It's SO MISSING the WHOLE POINT to upwork.

Kindly, 

Thank you.

[the-right-writer]

You do not speak for this freelancer. Some clients want to talk to me or ask me questions, and I have no problem with that. Some may interview others and not hire me or not hire anyone. That's part of freelancing.

Clients don't care about connects, or worry if they are being disrespectful. They have a job that needs to be completed.

It doesn't seem to be the clients who are missing the point of Upwork.

[bobafett999]

Proposals are like job applications. Interviews determine if you are the right fit. If you don't like interviews  don't send proposals.  You will save connects.

[02fba6ef]

The best comment on this thread, quick and simple!

[tanyalyntom]

As someone who has been on Upwork for over 5 years now, it was NOT always this way.

Pre-pandemic the Proposal was the interview. It was the NORM to move forward after they accepted and you had your first meet.

In other words the messages were where all the interview questions happened. If they thought you had the right stuff, they accepted the proposal and moved forward. 

[bobafett999]

I believe you are mistaken.  Messages can't describe the job well and it's scope.  Verbal talks clarifies the gig.  May be your field us very narrow and well defined.  Like translate 999 word document from Klingon to Vulcan!

[Anonymous-User]

How rude!!

Not every contract or job post on here is the same.

You are mistaken, us=is, it's=its.

[feed_my_eyes]

Okay, that's different. Yes, I also think that it was more typical for clients to conduct interviews via messaging prior to the pandemic, but your original post said that clients shouldn't interview you at all, just go ahead and accept your proposal:

"I ask you to please understand that the proposals ARE THE INTERVIEW.

Please do NOT respond to our proposals unless you have selected to work with us."

Anyway, people like to use Zoom these days; if you don't want to, you're free to refuse. You still don't speak "on behalf of all freelancers."

[tanyalyntom]

That's totally fair. I appreciate your feedback.

[tlsanders]

So, when you said "the proposal is the interview" you actually meant the entirely different and almost exactly opposite "the interview happens in messages"? 

[elisa_b]

---

Tanya T wrote:

On behalf of every freelancer

---

Who entitles you to speak on behalf of me, or other people who don't even know you or your "proposal"? Think twice before self-proclaiming you are our spokesperson.

Proposals are not interviews for specific reasons.

1) Clients may want to discuss some details with different candidates, in order to find the one who is able to better suit their needs.

2) On the freelancer side, being interviewed and talking with clients about their projects before accepting a job is vital in order to define clear expectations (deadline, deliverables, etc.). Plus, it will sometimes save your a*s - after just a couple of messages, you may also realise the client you are dealing with is not worth your time, or is probably going to give you headaches. 

Being interviewed and sometimes ghosted by clients is part of freelancing, just come to terms with that and move on.

[feed_my_eyes]

I insist on having a brief call with a new client before deciding if I want to work with them or not, and often, I decide that it's not a good fit. So I guess the "time wasting" works both ways. 

You have to understand that as a freelancer, you have billable hours and non-billable hours. The key is to charge a high enough hourly rate (roughly double what you'd want at a permanent job) to cover that fact. If you're only expecting to get 20 hours of billable time per week - which is a decent amount - then you won't get so upset about having to do routine, unpaid marketing tasks (which interviews are).

[ericaandrews]

WoW -So you are talking about freelancers running their business planning for OVERHEAD, inflation, etc....like RESPONSIBLE busiess owers are supposed to do?   What a radical idea.  Imagine that.  Business owners....planning.  Who would have "thunk" it.  I love the idea.  Not sure why MORE people aren't planning with these 'unbillable' hours in mind.  Much of "building" a business is spent with at least some UNBILLABLE hours - marketing, drumming up your brand, networking, social events, etc. 

[martina_plaschka]

Dear clients, OP has not asked or been given permission to speak on my behalf.

I'm happy to talk to you about your project before you hire me! A proposal is just the start of a conversation, and I know that you will interview a number of freelancers to find the best fit for your project! I understand that sometimes you will hire a different freelancer, or none at all, and that's perfectly fine. That is just a part of running your business, and is is equally a part of me running mine. 

[the3dguru]

The only thing I would say related to this is that Upwork is a freelancing platform, not a hiring platform. Go to Indeed If you want an employee. People are here because they choose to freelance, not because they can't find a job.

[ericaandrews]

I 100% disagree with this.  This assumes that every freelancer that 'bids' on a project is willing to work with just anybody that 'flings' out an 'offer'.   I always expect to have at least one video/voice interview before agreeing to accept a project and work with a client.  As a matter of fact, I INSIST on it, because the 'interview' process is not a 'one way' street. I am also 'interviewing' the client to see if they are a good fit for me as well.  The few times clients tried to 'hire' me without speaking to me, I declined the offer because it seemed a bit 'off' to me.  There have been many times where I 'bid' on a project and then ended up losing interest after speaking with the client and detecting unacceptable 'personality flaws' (i.e., cursing or 'pushy' behavior, bad tempers, condscending tone, or bombastic language), unclear requirements, unrealistic expectations and deadlines, serious work approach differences, conflicting schedules, or a client 'ghosting' and being unresponsive during the interview process: All of which are a 'non starter' for me.  Just because something looks good 'on paper' doesn't mean it's good in real life. I welcome interviews and speaking with the clients because I am 'vetting' the client just as they are 'vetting' me, and I am selective about who I will work with.  A well-written job post from a client + a well written proposal from a freelancer does not always translate into a good  'match' between the client and the freelancer.

[gracecdg]

I agree with you.

[7303b839]

very well said. 👍

[the3dguru]

This is a great idea, I will take to doing this too. It would save me a lot of trouble. A badly behaved client can lead to bad JSS, even if you successfully do the work and they keep paying you for months on end.

[7f9b79df]

DEAR TANYA T,

I find it confusing that you believe interviewing for a gig/job is a waste of your time. I'm genuinely confused as you are a "Social Media Strategist". Why would you not want to interview with a potential client to understand their needs? Do you honestly believe you will be able to fullfil their requirements without even talking to them before being hired?

You seem to be confusing the concept of an interview as a one-way street. An interview is not just about the potential client interviewing the freelancer; an interview is also about the freelancer interviewing the client. Personally, I have declined jobs after my interview with a potential client. From a freelancer perspective, I absolutely want an interview. 

Perhaps you are SO MISSING the WHOLE POINT of an inteview.

Cheers!

[miriam-ocampo]

Well, EVERYBODY can join Upwork now, there aren't any filters, so I kind of understand if the customer needs an interview to be sure you are qualified for the job.  I don't like it either, but that's the way it is now. 

[jaycrutcher]

Disagree. My best projects begin with a number of other freelancers being interviewed, and I came out on top.

[virtualbrix]

I prefer to get on the call with the client before I get hired, I like to ask questions, know the exact task / tasks and so on.

I wouldn't worry to much about connects, its just part of doing business now. I am sorry to say it, but, deal with it.

[fe9b8d82 · Accepted solution]

I totally get that a lot of people like to interview and talk first, I generally don't.  

I'm top rated plus, 100% JSS, and I've hardly ever talked to a client before beginning work.  It's probably different for legal work because I ask specific questions before accepting a contract, ensure that it's something I can help with, that we both agree on the scope of the project (in writing, not in a verbal meeting), and then accept or decline.

I can see both sides, and I can see why some people really want to talk before they begin work.  On the other hand, there are people who want to have an hour's worth of legal work done, but they want a 15-30 minute call BEFORE the contract starts to go over the situation.  Sorry, that's a no go.  I'm not going to "interview" with you to decide if we're a fit for a short term gig that will literally last till the end of the week.

tl;dr, long term projects I can understand a quick chat to get a feel of each other, short term, couple hour gigs, you can pound sand if you insist on an "interview" before you hire me.

[tanyalyntom]

YES.  yes. and yes.

You got to my point, and much more clearly. "Short term, couple of hour gigs, you can go pound sand if you insist on an 'interview' before you hire me.'"

My portfolio speaks for itself. They either like what they see or don't.

I'm not going to waste time getting on camera or answering a call so you ask me all the questions that would have been answered had you actually looked at my portfolio.

Furthermore, I should clarify that these are PROPOSALS that I was INVITED TOO. 

That's probably the part that bothered me the most. It's not like I'm running around pitching and not wanting to interview. 

When you invite me? You should be doing so because you already feel close to certain I'm a great fit. To interview me says you're just price shopping at that point. Especially when I have 100% success rate, only 5 star reviews and a huge portfolio to prove my value.

[18d41e19]

Hey Miles!! I love what you said here. What are you saying in our proposal that leads to winning the project without a discovery call? What is your CTA? 

I have been on the platform for a few weeks and noticed I have had 4 discovery calls (I won the projects) but it feels too much like interviewing -- which I want to get away from. 

[tlsanders]

This is absolute nonsense.  

[tanyalyntom]

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR VALUED FEEDBACK.

Please discontinue to reply to this thread. I am unable to delete it and it's truly bombarding my emails etc.

A community should be just that. A community. There is a WAY to share with someone that they might have the "wrong perspective" without being rude, or making it an all out debate and obliterating them as a person with genuine value and who might really be struggling with a particular issue. 

I am NOT new to Upwork. YES the platform has changed A LOT. Anyone who has been here like I have since before the pandemic can testify to this.

As far as "not getting hired - maybe it's you?" 

I have plenty of EXCELLENT feedback that would say other wise. 

Again, I appreciate ALL of your opinions. 

I will be sure to include future posts that DO NOT speak on behalf of all freelancers. Lesson learned. Please let it rest.

Thanks.

[kbadeau]

Now I have to reply just because you told me not to. I don't think clients necessarily handpick the people they invite to a job. Sometimes they do, but a lot of times I think they just pick the first 5-10-15 people that come up for a particular skill in search, without really delving too far into it. But as others have said, it's pretty easy to just charge a small fee for a consult.

[wlyonsatl]

Every freelancer has to find their own path.

I wouldn't even consider accepting a job offer from a potential client I had not had at least one substantial Zoom call with.

My average project work time per project is probably about 15 - 40 hours. Investing 30 minutes to an hour prior to accepting a contract in order to confirm the client knows what they need, understands the role I will play in getting their project done, communicates clearly, etc. is well spent.

But if my projects only required a short bit of work time from me (e.g. typing 30 addresses into a form) or had a specific outcome (e.g. far translating a one-page letter from Spanish to English) then interviewing the client via Zoom call would have far less value to me.

[tanyalyntom]

This IS exactly what I was referring to.

It's so unethical to ask a freelancer to DO WORK FOR FREE as part of the interview process. MY PORTFOLIO and my profile already tells you if you I can DO THE JOB. I'm NOT taking a test, or giving you FREE ideas, or putting ANY time into YOUR project for free. 

No way.

Just unethical. Just wrong.

[elisa_b]

I understand your disappointment, but this is a request of free test/work, not an interview. 

[18d41e19]

Hey Tanya! 

I totally agree with you. I think the client here is leaning on skills they've employed when hiring for other roles not understanding the difference between hiring a W2 employee versus a freelance (Contractor). Thank you for sharing your experience (albeit I get how frustrating it is). I had a client send me an NDA (over 10 pages long) without so much as inkling about what the project was really about. *sigh* 

How did you respond to this request?