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Did Upwork just remove the option to hide jobs from your feed? What's up with that?

Community Guru
Fergus M Member Since: May 23, 2015
11 of 25

@Tam L wrote:

why did things like 'Best Fit' (before my time) not meet your expectation?


Because we don't need or want anything like that. Just give us a decent search engine that really works, with an extensive range of filters, and we'll handle it ourselves. We're freelancers; we can decide for ourselves which jobs are the best fit. Matching algorithms are not something most of us like. Just take them all away and let us search for the jobs we want, not the ones some piece of technology thinks we want.

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.― George Orwell
Community Guru
Cathleen C Member Since: Aug 17, 2015
12 of 25

@fergus M wrote:

@Tam L wrote:

why did things like 'Best Fit' (before my time) not meet your expectation?


Because we don't need or want anything like that. Just give us a decent search engine that really works, with an extensive range of filters, and we'll handle it ourselves. We're freelancers; we can decide for ourselves which jobs are the best fit. Matching algorithms are not something most of us like. Just take them all away and let us search for the jobs we want, not the ones some piece of technology thinks we want.


 Exactly. Put in useful search criteria and filters, and that should take care of what shows in the feed. Then, as the OP has mentioned, put the hide/delete jobs from feed back the way it was, so that when strays do show up, we don't need to keep sifting through them time after time.

 

Also, if Tam is the programmer who is working on the site and we are now giving him suggestions, I also suggest getting rid of the algorithms that feed freelancer's profiles to clients. It doesn't work correctly either. Clients are either getting suggestions for freelancers who have nothing to do with their jobs, or good freelancers are getting hidden in secret folders.

Employee
Tam L Employee Member Since: Aug 31, 2015
13 of 25

Hey Kathleen - 

 

Not a programmer, but I am responsible for the Project Search side of the Product. 

Which is why I'm asking so many questions  =)

That, and I'm in research mode. 

 

What do you consider "useful search criteria and filter"?

 

 

Community Guru
Fergus M Member Since: May 23, 2015
14 of 25

@Tam L wrote:

I am responsible for the Project Search side of the Product. 

 


 Just copy the Elance search engine. It's much better than the Upwork one. In fact you'd be better just copying the Elance site, and adding the few Upwork features that are better (such as the ability to upload revised versions of a dicument without having to give it a new name). I know the goal is to make Upwork an outstanding freelancing platform, and in purely technical terms the Elance site is a lot closer to that goal than this one is.

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.― George Orwell
Community Guru
Ela K Member Since: Feb 9, 2015
15 of 25

@Tam L wrote:

Hey Kathleen - 

 

Not a programmer, but I am responsible for the Project Search side of the Product. 

Which is why I'm asking so many questions  =)

That, and I'm in research mode. 

 

What do you consider "useful search criteria and filter"?

 

 


Tam,

 

Lots of kudos to you for you being visible, open to suggestions and actively participating in discussions about your product in the forum.

I hope others will learn from your approach.

 

Ela

Active Member
Tim F Member Since: Sep 5, 2015
16 of 25

Tam, I think it'd be good to be able to look at a whole bunch of jobs, delete the ones you don't want and keep the ones you do. Having a checkbox by each job so that you can select a number of them and then apply a mass action to them i.e. "delete" or "save".

 

It's like Stephen said; if the algorithm was brilliant and got me only jobs I was interested in, then you could use only a single delete function to get rid of the few jobs that didn't interest me or just ignore them. Unfortunately, a lot of the jobs in my feed just aren't for me, so I need to be able to get rid of them so they don't keep getting in my way as I look for other ones.

 

In general I find it quite difficult to sort through to find the jobs that suit me best. I think one thing that would really help is requiring a bit more information from clients. We're constantly told to spend time writing individual cover letters to each client, instead of reusing a template. I try to do this, but a lot of the jobs listed have very little detail about the project and their needs for it. The most unspecific, generic jobs I don't bother applying for, as I have no way to express what I can uniquely offer a client over the (potentially dozens of) other applicants. How am I supposed to know if I can offer an advantage in terms of money, experience, skills or whatever else if I don't know which of those the clients even cares about?

 

This is just one of the reasons that I have to instantly ignore a number of the jobs in my feed. Another is price. I can't change my settings to remove jobs that are looking for entry level freelancers with a low hourly rate. My rate is usually too high for these jobs, so they are of no interest to me.

 

And it would be useful to have more control over which prices you see in general. Because the Upwork system allows clients to bargain over an hourly rate (which is a good thing), it can be difficult to know what kind of range a client might be thinking. This is not a problem for fixed rate jobs, but it is for hourly ones.Their idea of an intermediate rate might be very different from mine, but we're only going to find that out after I've spent time applying to their job, and they've spent time replying to me. What would be good would be if we knew that, for example, that "entry-level" rates meant somewhere between $5-15 per hour, "intermediate" meant $15-25 per hour, and so on. I get that this is difficult for a site as large and varied as Upwork, as different industries are going to have very different rates. Entry-level rates in software development or legal are likely to be similar to intermediate or even experienced rates in admin support. However, it would be very useful to have some sort of benchmark to work with, so that clients are more realistic in what they offer and freelancers spend less time applying to jobs that are never going to pay them enough.

 

Anyway, you don't need to make massive changes to the system to implement some of these ideas. As it is, you can already use a slider scale to filter for the proposed budgets of fixed price projects or use checkboxes to limit the jobs you see to your experience level. The problem is that these features are only available in the search function, and not for your job feed or in "recommended" jobs, which is where you spend most of your time looking for jobs (or at least I do). So implementing those features there would be a good start.

Community Guru
Ela K Member Since: Feb 9, 2015
17 of 25

Tim,

 

This is what clients see when posting jobs (I don't remember which category this represents):

 

 

experience levels.png

Depending on the category, the experience levels have different rate ranges attached to them. There is another post somewhere that includes several screenshots depicting different fields - I can't find it for the life of me.

 

I agree, it would be helpful to see this kind of info on the freelancer side as well.

 

 

Edit: Tam, like Stephen said, the 'Best Fit' feature was an utter desaster - its inscrutable randomness made me either laugh or cringe.

Active Member
Tim F Member Since: Sep 5, 2015
18 of 25

Very interesting Ela. I'm not sure if they hide that from freelancers for a reason, and whether it's a good or bad one, but it certainly seems like it would be good for us to know. When I started out I had no idea what my work was worth, and I'm still not totally sure, but it would be good to have an idea of market rates. I guess if freelancers don't know these then clients might be able to get lower rates, which Upwork might see as good for the site, but if it's stopping good freelancers from getting what they deserve then it's less likely to attract and keep them here, and over time that will definitely work against Upwork. It also doesn't help Upwork's reputation as being the place to go for cheap workers to underpay.

Employee
Tam L Employee Member Since: Aug 31, 2015
19 of 25

"I think one thing that would really help is requiring a bit more information from clients"

 

Having done some freelance work in the past, most recently trying to win a mobile contract, I can't agree more. I'm pretty opionated on this matter w/in the company. 

 

"Their idea of an intermediate rate might be very different from mine"

 

This is something I've been struggling to wrap my head around. Primarily - because we have freelancers from all over the world. Like you, Tim, I have a high hourly rate, but there is probably someone, not in the US, who can do a better job than I can, and due to their cost of living, has a lower rate. 

 

I mention this, not to get an answer/response out of you, but to let you know that I believe we're on the same page, and am really trying to figure out a way/convince others that we need a fairer way to represent salary and experience across the board.

 

Although... your slider idea does make sense =)

Community Guru
Alexandra H Member Since: Jul 30, 2015
20 of 25

Hi Tam,

 

My 50c worth of ideas/opinion: coming from Elance, where the job posts were "fixed" on the page and you had to scroll through and then "turn the page" -- I didn't find it at all hard to adapt to the system of deleting or scrolling through and then loading more jobs. And I found being able to delete irrelevant posts quite useful. (The fact that they were deleted only temporarily and came up again after a few rounds of loading more jobs, or if I left the page and  returned to it later, didn't bother me.) What I would not be too keen on is:

 

a) permanent deletion -- because clients may have to send out invites at a later date to generate more proposals, and then I might want to go back to the original job posting. (Note: This only applies if the invitation lacks some of the information of the original posting, like other proposals, date of first posting, etc.)

 

b) loops -- where I can't see an end to the listings.

 

But now let me also say how delighted I am that the Upwork fonts are so easy to read on smaller devices! Jumping between platforms on my iPad Mini has made me really appreciative of the optical aspects. Thanks (pass it on, please).

 

 

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