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Discriminatory job post

Ace Contributor
Tatyana M Member Since: Feb 10, 2019
1 of 45

Yesterday I came across a job post that is clearly disciminatory. I can't speak for other countries, but in the US you can not post a job post saying that you prefer to hire someone with a specific religious belief. I flagged the post 3 times yet is still up. This client is based in the US. 

 

Surely this can't be good for Upwork's reputation. 

 

 

 

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Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
2 of 45

Tatyana M wrote:

Yesterday I came across a job post that is clearly disciminatory. I can't speak for other countries, but in the US you can not post a job post saying that you prefer to hire someone with a specific religious belief. I flagged the post 3 times yet is still up. This client is based in the US. 

 

Surely this can't be good for Upwork's reputation. 

 

 

 


In my entirely not legally educated opinion, based on previous situations like it, it's not acceptable to say that you don't want XYZ to apply, but often is acceptable to say you want ABC.

 

You could not become a Catholic priest without being catholic for example.

It is also conceivable that a client who wants a writer for a specifically Jewish blog to be Jewish.

 

To be honest, especially with paid connects I'd rather the client states it up-front. They will not hire a person who does not meet some criterium that is clearly very important to them, so why let others waste their connects on applying for a contract which they will never get?

 

So if the client was forced to edit out that requirement, people who stand no chance of winning it will waste their time and their connects.

 

Also remember that employment law does not cover freelancing in most respects.

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Ace Contributor
Valery K Member Since: Apr 27, 2016
3 of 45

Basically I can understand some things related.
I can understand if someone wants to hire pro in Arabic calligraphy, and being so is impossible without being Arab or at least living in some Arabic country or studying Arabic culture during many years.
I can understand if someone wants to hire blogger for Japanese dishes and being so is impossible without being Japanese or at least living in Japan or studying Japan during many years.
But what I can´t understand it´s mentioning that you want to hire 3d modeler and it MUST live in States for example. If you need to hire somebody from certain timezone, mention timezone please. Otherwise it seems pure racism, I agree with Tatiana. And, moreover, Upwork unfortunately supports this. I mentioned this a few times in posts before. Yes, a lot of I*****s for example offer their 3d services, being 100% unable to complete this, just because of the poor situation of the country. But I have not rights to decide that all they are the same, because a lot of their compatriots are leading developers of famous programs. 
I think, including country or region must have very tight restrictions, and generally the best solution is to remove the country from the info at all. Let people decide on base on feedback and portfolio.

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Community Guru
Kelly B Member Since: Jan 1, 2016
4 of 45

Valery K wrote:

Basically I can understand some things related.
I can understand if someone wants to hire pro in Arabic calligraphy, and being so is impossible without being Arab or at least living in some Arabic country or studying Arabic culture during many years.
I can understand if someone wants to hire blogger for Japanese dishes and being so is impossible without being Japanese or at least living in Japan or studying Japan during many years.
But what I can´t understand it´s mentioning that you want to hire 3d modeler and it MUST live in States for example. If you need to hire somebody from certain timezone, mention timezone please. Otherwise it seems pure racism, I agree with Tatiana. And, moreover, Upwork unfortunately supports this. I mentioned this a few times in posts before. Yes, a lot of I*****s for example offer their 3d services, being 100% unable to complete this, just because of the poor situation of the country. But I have not rights to decide that all they are the same, because a lot of their compatriots are leading developers of famous programs. 
I think, including country or region must have very tight restrictions, and generally the best solution is to remove the country from the info at all. Let people decide on base on feedback and portfolio.


Racism? We have more than one race living in America. If you could select multiple time zones instead of country the end result would be the same. People working from 9-5 CST may prefer to work with other people who work roughly the same hours. I'll do work for people in Australia, but I don't prefer it... it's a PITA to wait 8 hours for a reply to a message.

 

Are you unable to even apply to a US only job, or is it like when I'm not in the correct time zone... I can apply but the client will see that I don't meet certain preferred requirements?

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Ace Contributor
Valery K Member Since: Apr 27, 2016
5 of 45

Dear Kelly.
Better saying, it is not racism, they are superstitions against concrete countries.
Unfortunately Upwork eliminates all links related to real posts.
If you want, I can send you concrete examples of such things in PM. It's impossible to explain with other matters but this.

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Community Guru
Tonya P Member Since: Nov 26, 2015
6 of 45

Valery K wrote:

Basically I can understand some things related.
I can understand if someone wants to hire pro in Arabic calligraphy, and being so is impossible without being Arab or at least living in some Arabic country or studying Arabic culture during many years.
I can understand if someone wants to hire blogger for Japanese dishes and being so is impossible without being Japanese or at least living in Japan or studying Japan during many years.
But what I can´t understand it´s mentioning that you want to hire 3d modeler and it MUST live in States for example. If you need to hire somebody from certain timezone, mention timezone please. Otherwise it seems pure racism, I agree with Tatiana. And, moreover, Upwork unfortunately supports this. I mentioned this a few times in posts before. Yes, a lot of I*****s for example offer their 3d services, being 100% unable to complete this, just because of the poor situation of the country. But I have not rights to decide that all they are the same, because a lot of their compatriots are leading developers of famous programs. 
I think, including country or region must have very tight restrictions, and generally the best solution is to remove the country from the info at all. Let people decide on base on feedback and portfolio.


It's not racism, it's nationalism. 

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Ace Contributor
Tatyana M Member Since: Feb 10, 2019
7 of 45

I wish I could post the link here but I think that is against Upwork's policies?

 

This is a fashion design job, and they want designs that "emphasized layers and soft fabrics to create a comfortable, lived-in look. " inspired by "religion, music, and hope."

 

Fashion designers are ofter asked to design based on inspiration from all sorts of sources. You can have a collection based on the space age mixed with a bit of reinassane art- you don't need to be an expert in those fields to design this collection, just as you don't need to be of a certain religion to design something inpired by religion, hope, or music. 

If, for example, they wanted someone under 30 to work for them because they are designing for 22-28 year old demographic and state that- that would be clear age discrimination and I would be equally annoyed. 

 

I am not asking for much- They don't even have to take down the post- it can just be re-worded. 

 

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Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
8 of 45

Tatyana M wrote:

 

I am not asking for much- They don't even have to take down the post- it can just be re-worded. 

 


So you want freelancers to waste their time and their connects and their money applying for a job they have no chance at all of ever getting?

Or do you actually for one second believe that removing that sentence will somehow also remove the fact that the client wants to hire someone from their preferred demographic?

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Community Guru
Kelly B Member Since: Jan 1, 2016
9 of 45

Petra R wrote:

Tatyana M wrote:

 

I am not asking for much- They don't even have to take down the post- it can just be re-worded. 

 


So you want freelancers to waste their time and their connects and their money applying for a job they have no chance at all of ever getting?

Or do you actually for one second believe that removing that sentence will somehow also remove the fact that the client wants to hire someone from their preferred demographic?


The name of this particular company would be a pretty dead giveaway.

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Ace Contributor
Tatyana M Member Since: Feb 10, 2019
10 of 45

"Or do you actually for one second believe that removing that sentence will somehow also remove the fact that the client wants to hire someone from their preferred demographic?"

 

That is not my goal or point, the client is free to hire whoever they please. To me, removing that sentense is the difference between a normal job post and one that is discriminatory. Personally, those details matter a lot to me. I feel strongly that we shouldn't let any kind of discrimanation, be it religion, race, age, or gender grow more prevalent and little actions make a difference. You might disagree with this or my point, and I respect that, but I am stating my opinion. 

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