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Re: Discriminatory job post

Ace Contributor
Tatyana M Member Since: Feb 10, 2019
21 of 45

"It sounds like you want to limit the freedom of Upwork users. Why is that?"

 

Absolutely, I want to limit the freedom of Upwork users to discriminate. "Freedom" does not mean being above the law and that argument is just plain bad on so many levels. 

 

While you might not care or mind, but it has no bearing on wheather it is legal or not.  

 

Here is a good resource: https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/index.cfm

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
22 of 45

Would you like to tell us more about the job, or would you prefer to not say anything about it?

 

We may be able to help you understand the job in context. Just saying something is "discrimanatory" doesn't really mean anything.

 

I do understand and appreciate your basic instincts on this matter. But the link you referenced applies to employment, and does not apply here.

 

I think if you provide us with more detail about the job we can help you understand it in context and provide some additional perspective. The job posting MAY be inappropriate. Or it might NOT be inappropriate. But we can't simply say that a job posting should be removed from Upwork because it is "discrimanatory" because every job posting on Upwork and every job listing anywhere is discrimanatory.

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
23 of 45

Tatyana M wrote:

 

While you might not care or mind, but it has no bearing on wheather it is legal or not.  

 

Here is a good resource: https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/index.cfm


How do employment laws apply to hiring freelancers?

You are also not adressing the fact that asking for a specific demographic to apply is not the same as saying "no applicants from another."

 

Again, I'd rather know if a client won't hire me because I am not something that is really important to them.

 

Highlighted
Ace Contributor
Tatyana M Member Since: Feb 10, 2019
24 of 45

"You are also not adressing the fact that asking for a specific demographic to apply is not the same as saying "no applicants from another."

 

You don't have to necessarily prohibit someone from applying to be discriminatory: "For example, a help-wanted ad that seeks "females" or "recent college graduates" may discourage men and people over 40 from applying and may violate the law."

 

Saying in a job post "We are a company based on religion X" is enough to signal to potential applicants that they want someone from religion x without stating so explicitly. 

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
25 of 45

Valery: You are correct in pointing out that there are many, many types of jobs in which specific types of freelancers would be appropriate for the job, while others would not be. That is known as being "discerning" or "discriminatory."

 

The problem is that we have no idea what the original poster is referring to.

 

Maybe she saw a job posting like this: "I need to find somebody who believes in and is familiar with holistic healing to write articles about holistic healing retreats for my website that lets people look up information about retreats throughout the U.S."

 

Or maybe it was a job posting like this: "My screenplay features a hard-boiled atheist detective and his greenie Orthodox Jewish partner. I need an Orthodox Jewish writer with a keen ear for dialogue and an understanding of this character's background to review the script and help me make it authentic."

 

Or maybe it was a job posting like this: "Environmental activism website seeking general board advisor with strong environmentalist beliefs and experience explaining these positions to a general audience."

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
26 of 45

re: "Saying in a job post 'We are a company based on religion X' is enough to signal to potential applicants that they want someone from religion x without stating so explicitly"

 

There is nothing wrong with this.

 

This company probably IS based on religion X. Do you want them to lie about it or withhold that information?

 

If a person does not want to apply to a job posting because the company posting the job is based on religion X, then doesn't that mean that the job-seeker is discriminatory against religion X?

Ace Contributor
Tatyana M Member Since: Feb 10, 2019
27 of 45

I don't think you read my entire post before replying. 

 

Yes, it it enough just to say that and not a problem. They just can't also say that they prefer to hire someone who believes in religion X. 

 

You can also read above my description of the job post. I quotes as much as I could without calling them out. 

Community Guru
Miriam H Member Since: May 16, 2017
28 of 45

Tatyana M wrote:

I don't think you read my entire post before replying. 

 

Yes, it it enough just to say that and not a problem. They just can't also say that they prefer to hire someone who believes in religion X. 

 

You can also read above my description of the job post. I quotes as much as I could without calling them out. 


I did read your post and I have seen other jobs that request a certain that a freelancer be part of a specific faith. But it's not A JOB, PERIOD. A company with employees is subject to different rules than any project listing on Upwork. Ok I'm going to the EEOC site now.

Community Guru
Miriam H Member Since: May 16, 2017
29 of 45

The EEOC site was unhelpful, but here are two related FAQs:

 

Do Federal laws apply to my business

They specifically mention "part time" and "seasonal," however I don't see anything about how these laws apply to independent contractors.

 

Regardless, as someone who has been seeking full time employment for quite some time, it is INCREDIBLY hard to prove discrimination.  I would just ignore this project listing and move on.

 

Ace Contributor
Tatyana M Member Since: Feb 10, 2019
30 of 45

Sorry! I was actually replying to Preston and must have clicked the wrong button. (He took  a sensence entirely out of context and replied as if I said the opposite of what I did.)

 

I do think you are right, these rules generally don't apply to freelancers. I did not know this and am surprised. (I'm in the Bay Area and we have several excellent laws to protect workers so I guess just got accustomed to thinking it should be the norm.)

 

I do hope that this chages in the future as more and more people are now freelancing, either by choice or by need. 

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