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c4f011bc
Member

Dishonest client closed contract, gave me low rating, ruined my JSS

Hello,

 

I am graphic designer and I working my way up here on Upwork.

 

I applied for a logo design job where we agreed with the client that I'll deliver 3 logo proposals for approximately 10-12 hours of work. She insisted that she was in a big hurry, so I did my best and delivered 5 proposals for about 5 hours. The client did not like my work without giving a clear explanation why. She insisted again that she was in a big hurry, gave me the info that they have to look a certain way (which she didn't acknowledged the first time)  so I decided to give it a second try. I delivered 4 new proposals in a few hours, but she answered for a second time that the work "just don't quite hit the mark", closed the contract and gave me the terrible score of 3.57, which ruined my JSS from 100% to 87%.

 

I feel what she did as a dishonest move, which doesn't represent the work I have put into this. I cannot agree that a person with score of 1.58 has the power to ruin my JSS and distort the opinion of my list of happy customers, all of which gave me 5 stars. I am kindly asking for a discussion and review my case, if possible.

 

Thank you,

 

Mario

ACCEPTED SOLUTION


@Mohammed G wrote:


What is your mistake?, This client had 1.58 stars from previous freelancers! so it was very obvious to you that you don`t have to work with him!, but you did.


 I agree with Mohammed. Did you not look at the feedback she LEFT? (I largely ignore the feedback given TO a client. I look at the feedback the client LEFT super carefully.)

 

I'd go cleaning sewers for a living before working with a client with that sort of history. You walked right into that one I'm afraid.

 

View solution in original post

21 REPLIES 21
petra_r
Member

How can an opinion be "dishonest?" She paid you, didn't she?

 

This was one in 7 contracts, so you had 6 great client outcomes and onepoor one. One in 7 is 14ish %

 


Mario P wrote: I am kindly asking for a discussion and review my case, if possible.

 


 Feedback can not be disputed unless in contains offensice language or similar, and even then only the wording would be removed, not the stars, not the private feedback and not the impact on the JSS.

 

But with so few contracts it won't take long to get above 90% again.

 

m_acc_des
Member

Hi Mario!

Well, I saw that you made a bad mistake!, That client gave you maybe 1 of 10 private feedback, because this is the impact of 14% out of 100% when you divide them to the 6 contracts you already finished.

What is your mistake?, This client had 1.58 stars from previous freelancers! so it was very obvious to you that you don`t have to work with him!, but you did.


@Mohammed G wrote:


What is your mistake?, This client had 1.58 stars from previous freelancers! so it was very obvious to you that you don`t have to work with him!, but you did.


 I agree with Mohammed. Did you not look at the feedback she LEFT? (I largely ignore the feedback given TO a client. I look at the feedback the client LEFT super carefully.)

 

I'd go cleaning sewers for a living before working with a client with that sort of history. You walked right into that one I'm afraid.

 

Hello Mohammed, 

 

I guess you're right, but I got overly excited about the project as I am really passionate about what I do and wanted to dive straight ahead. This is one of the reasons I provided the client with so many proposals. I was flowing with ideas and wanted to prove my zest in this project. This is one of the reasons why I am so dissappointed of what happened. 

wlyonsatl
Member

Mario,

 

Over the years many, many freelancers have complained on this board about the weaknesses and inaccuracies of the Job Success Score calculations and the freelancer rating system. Upwork has made no signiicant changes of any kind to this system, so I don't think management really cares.

 

There are  many things that could easily improve this system, but it looks like we're stuck with things as they are for the foreseeable future. Your only choice is to find a steady flow of new jobs for yourself, do your best work on all of them and let the JSS chips fall where they may.

 

Good luck.

Wow, I've never seen a client with feedback that bad, that really stands out. I understand that new freelancers are more willing to overlook risky clients such as this one, because they are just too happy to get an offer. 

Also I understand that sometimes clients need something to be done in a hurry, but very often, I suspect, that purported urgency is a sign of disorganisation, and just leads to unhappy outcomes for everyone. 

So, 2 red flags you missed. 

Thanks for the input Martina. 

 

As I previously answered Mohammed, I was just flowing with ideas and energy, the project looked so interesting and fun - I just dove into it. I wanted to prove myself - I understand that her low score is a red flag, but I consider myself a professional willing to satisfy even the pickiest clients. 

 

Guess I was wrong and I am really dissappointed about that. My request to the Upwork team still stands, though. 

 

PS

 

*******Idea Submission******

 

What if clients with very poor score, (like the one I got) just receive a lower impact factor on freelancer's JSS? Say, a 1.50 client can influence a freelancer's JSS with half the impact of a client with 4.5 ? 

 

Edit. No matter if the score given to the freelancer is positive or negative.

Mario,

 

You had a bad trip - move on.That score is not great, but not impossible. According to various mods on the subject of bad clients, apparently Upwork does take notice of clients with a consistently bad record. Whether it acts on the bad record is not for us to know.  


@Nichola L wrote:

 

....According to various mods on the subject of bad clients, apparently Upwork does take notice of clients with a consistently bad record. Whether it acts on the bad record is not for us to know.  


I believe we have been told that clients who are judged by Upwork to have abused the rating system have all their private feedback removed—across all contracts and all contractors. There is no weighting of feedback based on its perceived quality, but it can all be tossed if it's deemed rotten.

@Perhaps @Upwork can confirm or correct.

Hi Douglas,

 

Yes that is correct, the client's record of feedback is taken into consideration when weighing their interactions in the freelancer JSS calculation. Thank you.

~ Goran
Upwork


 

*******Idea Submission******

 

What if clients with very poor score, (like the one I got) just receive a lower impact factor on freelancer's JSS? Say, a 1.50 client can influence a freelancer's JSS with half the impact of a client with 4.5 ? 

 

Edit. No matter if the score given to the freelancer is positive or negative.


 I think I read somewhere that this is the case already, the clients with poor feedback have lower impact on the JSS, yet I surprisingly find that MOST of freelancers give the client 5 star feedback, although he may not be the best one, in the hope of rehiring them in the future. You can see for sure how that ruined other freelancers` lives.

c4f011bc
Member

I appreciate everyone's input on this matter. The advice you left is more or less valuable for me, but I'd kindly request Upwork support to take further review on my case. I am sure this happened to other freelancers and clients aswell and I hope they've found a solution, but I believe this case deserves a further review than "just move along". 

 

Thank you,


@Mario P wrote:

I appreciate everyone's input on this matter. The advice you left is more or less valuable for me, but I'd kindly request Upwork support to take further review on my case. I am sure this happened to other freelancers and clients aswell and I hope they've found a solution, but I believe this case deserves a further review than "just move along". 

 

Thank you,


 Mario, I am a freelancer too, and I know how you are feeling right now, but Upwork will not do anything in your case, we know that, that`s why we are telling you to move forward.

Yesterday I got my first 4.5 stars, All my contracts are long term so only one bad review may affect me negatively, but I admitted my mistake, why?, because this client never gave 5 stars before to any freelancer!, you will be surprised if you know that I am the first to get 4.5 with her.

You will get over the 90% fast, move forward and forget about it.


@Mario P wrote:

I appreciate everyone's input on this matter. The advice you left is more or less valuable for me, but I'd kindly request Upwork support to take further review on my case. I am sure this happened to other freelancers and clients aswell and I hope they've found a solution, but I believe this case deserves a further review than "just move along". 

 

Thank you,


 Everyone understands you are upset, but you don't seem to understand that no amount of complaining will change your situation and that upwork is not going to make you the singular exception to a rule and remove a review, just because you want them to. 

Enthusiasm is a nice thing, but it can cloud your judgement. 

The things I have learned to look out for:

  • how well is the job described? Is it just a short unclear description, or has the client taken the time to really describe what he wants?
  • Is there a file attached to better understand the work?
  • If the client refers to a file attached, is it really there?
  • what is the hiring rate?
  • is the client a newbie?
  • in what price range is the client looking?
  • what feedback has the client received?
  • what has he given? Do the client feedback and the freelancer feedback match, or are they off?
  • Is it a subject I want to work on, or do I feel uncomfortable with it?

You will find your own criteria to evaluate a job offer, and if you want to submit a proposal on it or not. 

Best of luck!

 

 

 


@Mario P wrote:

 I believe this case deserves a further review than "just move along".


 There is no "deserves further review" - Upwork can't possibly start investigating thousands of contracts every time a freelancer feels he got less stars than deserved.

 

The sooner you move on and put it behind youthe better for you.

Thanks for your input, I already read your first message, I got your opinion.


@Mario P wrote:

Thanks for your input, I already read your first message, I got your opinion.


You are mixing up opinion and fact.

opinion v facts.jpg

 

 

 


@Mario P wrote:

Hello,

 

I am graphic designer and I working my way up here on Upwork.

 

I applied for a logo design job where we agreed with the client that I'll deliver 3 logo proposals for approximately 10-12 hours of work. She insisted that she was in a big hurry, so I did my best and delivered 5 proposals for about 5 hours. The client did not like my work without giving a clear explanation why. She insisted again that she was in a big hurry, gave me the info that they have to look a certain way (which she didn't acknowledged the first time)  so I decided to give it a second try. I delivered 4 new proposals in a few hours, but she answered for a second time that the work "just don't quite hit the mark", closed the contract and gave me the terrible score of 3.57, which ruined my JSS from 100% to 87%.

 

I feel what she did as a dishonest move, which doesn't represent the work I have put into this. I cannot agree that a person with score of 1.58 has the power to ruin my JSS and distort the opinion of my list of happy customers, all of which gave me 5 stars. I am kindly asking for a discussion and review my case, if possible.

 

Thank you,

 

Mario


 Yet you gave her a 5* feedback. Why didn't you leave an honest feedback?

Yet you gave her a 5* feedback. Why didn't you leave an honest feedback? 

 

You are making a valid point. I think calling this client dishonest is really taking it too far.  I am still puzzled Mario why you think that you deserve special treatment beyond what you agreed to by using this platform.

Also, Mario, always keep in mind that this is an open forum that anyone can access, clients, freelancers, as well as everyone else. How would you feel about a freelancer venting freely like you do? Would you want to work with that person? It does not seem to be the most professional or wise thing to do when you are trying to build a reputation. 

Hey, I leave feedback based on my experience with the client, right? I do my job, she doesn't like it, she's in a hurry - fine, move along. I don't have a problem with the client. What I don't agree with is the score I got - I did provide proposals, I was fast and answered messages almost immediately (exceptions when I was asleep).

 

I am not saying that communication with the client was the problem - I am saying is that I was surpised of the score I got and I cannot agree with it. Apart from that - my feedback has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. 

 

On regards of "venting freely" - sorry, but I don't consider explaining the case as objective as I can "venting freely". The opinion I share is that I do not accept with the score, which is not "venting". 

 

Lets open the books on the definition of the word "forum". 

"a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged."

 

On that matter - I value high being open about a problem and discussing it and I think that speaks better than quetly "move along". 

 

I can also advise you not to teach me how to behave. 

Mario, you have my sympathy. It’s disingenuous for a client to claim you didn’t hit the mark when she never gave you much of a mark to begin with. BUT, feedback is subjective so even if Upwork was able to change it, how could it possibly decide what would be fair for both you and the client? As a practical matter, there’s only 2 things you can do: give the client a full refund, which removes the star rating but not the private feedback, or wait until you’re top rated then exclude the feedback from your JSS, which is essentially moving on like others have suggested.
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