Solved: Dispute over $1400 App project

amobelijah756 · ‎05-11-2020

I met this client on Upwork and his job description was he needed a developer to connect or integrate his app to firebase, which I gladly applied and got picked by the client. The initial amount of that project was $300, so client got connected with me on Skype and he did offere to either pay me on Upwork or he will transfer the money to my PayPal which I gladly refused and told him it is against the policies of Upwork to get paid.
The next day client sent me the contract which was funded and the moment I got on the contract to accept it I realise the warning Upwork gave that says Payment not verified so I then asked client to resend me the contract which he did send and in the process of working client then asked me if I could create a backend for the app which I told him I will charge extra, so the amount I charged him was $1400, and a project that would take me 12 days to finish I spent my whole time on it and finished it about 5 days.
Now I have submitted the project to client, and also I did take screenshots and a video of the operations of the app just to show client that the whole app is working and the only thing left is for him to purchase admin panel which will be an extra charge.
All of a sudden client cancelled the contract and requested for full refund after he received the files and he changed the logins to Google Firebase
At the moment we are in the first phase of a mediator from Upwork now client says he is willing to pay me a small fee of the amount escrow cause he is not satisfied. I then presented my evidences about 7 of them with screenshots point to the Mediator that this client is trying to scam me and also on his profile he has had 25 jobs posted, 16% hire and 0 reviews.
He also threatened me on Skype that he is going sue me legally which I think this guy is a Big Joke

Now my question is why wouldn’t Upwork ban such client from the system cause they actually trying to take advantage of Freelancers had work which is not fair.

jr-translation · ‎05-12-2020

Elijah A wrote:
Hi, am currently on a dispute with a client of $1400 which I filled for a disputed,
Lara then initiated arbitration and asked for us to pay the fees of $291, but just now the client and I have come to a mutual agreement that he will release 90% of the funds and when I do the admin panel (which wasn’t part of the contract ) he will release the remaining 10%.
Is this possible?

We know that the client aready closed the contract.

My personal opinion (I wrote more but the reply was lost when sending the reply failed):

Make him pay the 90% asap and then stop working for this client.

Do not miss the deadline for the arbitration. The client might try to delay you from entering in time, so you lose. Unless he paid you well before, call it bluff and pay your $291.

Results:

A: You get 90% ($1260)

B: You get 100% - your arbitation fee ($1109)

C: You get 100% ($1400)

You already received a negative feedback, but you can report the ToS violations (taking payment off Upwork + asking for free work) which hopefully is enough to remove this client from the platform.

Next time report the client as soon as they try to violate the ToS and use the "Submit work for payment" butten when handing over your work.

View solution in original post

amobelijah756 · ‎05-12-2020

Hi, am currently on a dispute with a client of $1400 which I filled for a disputed,
Lara then initiated arbitration and asked for us to pay the fees of $291, but just now the client and I have come to a mutual agreement that he will release 90% of the funds and when I do the admin panel (which wasn’t part of the contract ) he will release the remaining 10%.
Is this possible?

g_vasilevski · ‎05-12-2020

Hi Elijah,

I`m sorry to hear about the bad experience you had with your client.

Please post any additional information/agreements directly on your dispute. Our dispute agent will assist you and your client further directly there and will guide you further.
To learn more about disputes check out our resources Here. I hope that you and your client will come to a positive agreement for both sides and resolve the dispute as soon as possible. Thank you.

~ Goran

amobelijah756 · ‎05-13-2020

Hi am a bit concerned here, I had a message from the Customer agent called Lara, she asked me to give a consent in order for the $291 to be take and it has to be 2 business days. Today is the second day and I haven’t heard anything from her.
Why is she being slow in taking action cause the amount the client is owing me in escrow for the project is $1400, please is not a joke

BojanS · ‎05-13-2020

Hi Elijah,

I'll go ahead and follow up with the team handling your case and you can expect to receive an update on your ticket as soon as possible.

Thank you for your patience.

~ Bojan

jr-translation · ‎05-12-2020

Elijah A wrote:
Hi, am currently on a dispute with a client of $1400 which I filled for a disputed,
Lara then initiated arbitration and asked for us to pay the fees of $291, but just now the client and I have come to a mutual agreement that he will release 90% of the funds and when I do the admin panel (which wasn’t part of the contract ) he will release the remaining 10%.
Is this possible?

We know that the client aready closed the contract.

My personal opinion (I wrote more but the reply was lost when sending the reply failed):

Make him pay the 90% asap and then stop working for this client.

Do not miss the deadline for the arbitration. The client might try to delay you from entering in time, so you lose. Unless he paid you well before, call it bluff and pay your $291.

Results:

A: You get 90% ($1260)

B: You get 100% - your arbitation fee ($1109)

C: You get 100% ($1400)

You already received a negative feedback, but you can report the ToS violations (taking payment off Upwork + asking for free work) which hopefully is enough to remove this client from the platform.

Next time report the client as soon as they try to violate the ToS and use the "Submit work for payment" butten when handing over your work.

amobelijah756 · ‎05-12-2020

Thanks soo much Jeniffer for the advice.
Please the deadline for payment of arbitration is still 5 days, am I right ?

jr-translation · ‎05-12-2020

Elijah A wrote:
Thanks soo much Jeniffer for the advice.
Please the deadline for payment of arbitration is still 5 days, am I right ?

No idea, I only know what you posted in the forum.

lysis10 · ‎05-12-2020

Elijah A wrote:
Hi, am currently on a dispute with a client of $1400 which I filled for a disputed,
Lara then initiated arbitration and asked for us to pay the fees of $291, but just now the client and I have come to a mutual agreement that he will release 90% of the funds and when I do the admin panel (which wasn’t part of the contract ) he will release the remaining 10%.
Is this possible?

ooof, bad deal. He just conned you into doing double the work for the same rate. lolol

amobelijah756 · ‎05-12-2020

Nah no way, looking at his profile he has posted 25 jobs and 0 client reviews meaning he has been doing this to other Freelancers, I have got all my evidences and also he did texted me on Skype offering to pay me outside Upwork. He also threatened to sue me legally which obviously made him look like a joke.
Am definitely going in for arbitration

lysis10 · ‎05-12-2020

Elijah A wrote:
Nah no way, looking at his profile he has posted 25 jobs and 0 client reviews meaning he has been doing this to other Freelancers, I have got all my evidences and also he did texted me on Skype offering to pay me outside Upwork. He also threatened to sue me legally which obviously made him look like a joke.
Am definitely going in for arbitration

oh, I thought you said you were doing more work for 90% of the money. So ok, if you're going for arbitration, the mediator will tell you to pay up and when he/she does this, they tell you the number of days. I think it's 3 business days but might as well do it right away to get it off your plate.

amobelijah756 · ‎05-12-2020

Yeah I offered freely to do that cause I don’t want time wasting and spending extra cash knowing that the Client is going to loose but he insisted to go arbitration and he thinks doing that will intimidate me to release the funds, well I bet he is yet to see the surprise am going to give him

wlyonsatl · ‎05-12-2020

Good luck getting paid what you are due, Elijah.

Upwork says in its Escrow Agreement that it reserves the right to release to the freelancer or return to the client escrowed funds at its "sole discretion," so this can work to the advantage of either the client or the freelancer.

https://www.upwork.com/legal#fp

Upwork also says it removes from freelancers' JSS calculations feedback from clients whose feedback is consistently negative, but it would be a great help if freelancers were also provided enough information about each client's history on Upwork to provide the transparency needed to make an informed decisions about whom to work with.

I wouldn't mind if Upwork made public certain statistics for freelancers and clients, including:

1) What percentage of their contracts have they cancelled?

2) What percentage of their contracts have been subject to mediation?

3) What percentage of their contracts?

4) What has a client's average public and private feedback been for freelancers?

None of this information may ever be provided, but it never hurts to ask. Back in May 2019 I pointed out that weighting feedback by the relative size of each contract would make the JSS computation more relevant:

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/JSS-computation-with-additional-feature/td-p/595786/high...

That has now been implemented by Upwork:

"Jobs with higher earnings weigh more and will have a bigger impact on your score."

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211068358-Job-Success-Score

Thanks, Upwork!

amobelijah756 · ‎05-12-2020

Exactly that’s a point, am sure Upwork has thought about this but they fear to implement it cause they will loose lots of Clients on their platform. But also Upwork needs to also take into consideration lots of clients on Upwork are Advantage-takers, meaning they come unto Upwork platform and play around with the system but funding contracts and when the freelancer submits they request for funds which some of the freelancers will succumb to cause they don’t want to loose their JSS

jr-translation · ‎05-12-2020

Elijah A wrote:
Exactly that’s a point, am sure Upwork has thought about this but they fear to implement it cause they will loose lots of Clients on their platform. But also Upwork needs to also take into consideration lots of clients on Upwork are Advantage-takers, meaning they come unto Upwork platform and play around with the system but funding contracts and when the freelancer submits they request for funds which some of the freelancers will succumb to cause they don’t want to loose their JSS

That we do not really know. We only tend to hear from freelancers, when they feel they got scammed. In many cases it is underfunded milestones or freelancers not handing over the work properly (meaning using the submit work for payment dialog). But I actually think there is a bright sight to it. The ToS say, the work has to be fully paid for the client to own the work, in other words: If the client only partially fund the contract, he may pay the freelancer money, but cannot use the work because it is still owned by the freelancer. This is quite handy when it comes to writing or design because many things appear on the internet and a DMCA can be filed for free.

Withholding payment in return of a better feedback is a ToS violation. Most freelancers comming here complaining about that should just read the ToS and act on them. It would solve most of these issues before they arise.