hoyle_editing
Member

Dispute process

Good morning everyone.

 

So, it appears i have found myself in a dispute situation and i would just like to make sure i am prepared going into this further.....A little back story....

 

I took a fixed price job - what should be a simple small video edit.

1 milestone for entire project of $100

 

As per a previous post here(Jennifer?),  i laid out the terms in the contract acceptance message field (though i know this doensnt neccesarily mean anything)

I stated -

1 revision,

"produce a video using supplied video and photo assets",

due date - none dspecified but will try to get a first draught ready in 48 hours.

 

Now, i stupidly went against my own advice and took the job without totally crystal clear requrements, but as it seemed a simplistic job i did it anyway!! (should have known better)

 

The only requirements setout by the client were..."we need video branding to our club , its fun club and need video editing" and "here is file , let me see your concept 🙂 i need nice work please"

I assumed a slight language barrier may be hindering communication slightly but thought it would be workable as it was a simple enough project.

 

12 hours after the contract start i got an impatient message asking for updates 

 

Anyway, i got the edit done for midday yesterday (around 16 hours after contract start) and sent it to the client - he immediatly replied asking 'where is the editing, you have just put photos and videos together'!

 

I explained to the client the various work processes that had gone into his project from sourcing royalty free music to timing pictures, adding motion graphics, colour correcting videos to enhance them, plus lots more that i wont go into here, and also pointed out that no requests for any specific style of editing or special effects had been requested.

I submitted this all through a payment request to try and keep things official but fully expecting to get an alteration request. (which im fine with)

 

The request come soon after which was no problem, but all it said in the request was "make better"

 

so i responded with another request and asking that his alteration request be resubmitted with either specific changes he would like, OR just an indication of the type of editing or special effects he would like to see in his video.

I also pointed out the 1 revision limit and said that i would rather he had some input, so we could ensure the video was the type of thing he wanted, as it was important to me that he was happy with the edit and if he made another request without any information i would add some different transitions between photos and try and give the video more of a feel of being full of effects. But i would not be able to alter again after that point without setting up another contract/milestone ect. (hence i would rather have some input).

 

This morning another request for changes was made this time asking...

"what editing software did you use"

 

I promptly replied with requested info and then got a message saying

"please send me project files"

 

I replied saying i was sorry but as the contract was for a finished video and the project was not complete yet i would like to finish the video first (although would be happy to give them to client on completion despite not being a part of the work)

I also pointed out that as he had made another request for changes without giving any information and that if i didnt hear otherwise within the next 24 hours i would continue with the final edit as previously mentioned.

 

few min later contract closed and refund request.

 

I entered dispute as i have spent significant time on this, i have been open to change it either with or without the clients input (although i have continually tried to encourage the client to communicate whjat they would like to see).

 

Client has now rejected dispute.

 

I have replied to his rejection reason on the dispute page, but dont really want to start going back and forth with messages (not that i think the client wil respond).

 

So, what next?  

Someone from upwork comes along and emails each of us and tries to get us to agree on things? - Trouble with this, i'm open to helping the client, changes, slightly reduced rate (as full video has not been provided yet) - but i think the client just wants a full refund of the $100 

 

So assuming he does not really cooperate with upworks suggestions, and i am willing to cooperate with most things apart from full refund.....

 

what next? we have to pay $291 each to get arbitration for $100? and thats it?

 

I think i know the answers to this, but thought id ask incase i have not thought or considered something.

 

I always usually insist on smaller milestones for parts of the project (such as first revision, final draught) and try to be much clearer on contracts but as i was at a loose end and it was supposedly a simple job i let my gaurd down Smiley Sad p*@3ed off with myself now, but hey ho!

 

 

 

 

ACCEPTED SOLUTION


Jonathan H wrote:

If both of you pay for arbitration, it goes to arbitration (stupid for $ 100)

 

I tend to agree, though I see no reason it would sway to the client,


It tends to sway the person who was NOT the first to fund arbitration.
Cheap client like that is NOT going to spend near $ 300 to get $ 100 they already spent back - just not gonna happen.

It becomes a bluffing game at that stage.

 


Jonathan H wrote:

, Am i right in thinking that no matter what the outcome nobody gets the fee of $291 back?

If arbitration goes forward then no, nobody gets it back.

View solution in original post

12 REPLIES 12


Noureldin Y wrote:

you'll get your 291$ back, but only if you're sure that you delivered what they wish.


I Clearly have NOT delivered what they 'wish' - that is the issue, I want to deliver a finished product to the client that they are happy with, but they seem unable or unwilling to communicate more than a couple of words.


Jonathan H wrote:

Noureldin Y wrote:

you'll get your 291$ back, but only if you're sure that you delivered what they wish.


I Clearly have NOT delivered what they 'wish' - that is the issue, I want to deliver a finished product to the client that they are happy with, but they seem unable or unwilling to communicate more than a couple of words.


It sounds like you've done everything that you can possibly do to manage the situation and provide good service, but you're stuck with a client who's unable or unwilling to communicate and who doesn't want to continue with the project. It is what it is. I wouldn't continue beating my head against the wall, if I were you. It sounds like arbitration or a refund are going to be your only options, unfortunately. 

Smiley Sad

 

Yes - I think you are probably right, I wish he would just try and communicate something! I'm quite open to change/help. 

 

Nevermind, guess a drawn out process awaits!

 

Im most annoyed about the fact ive now wasted so much time on this (not just the work, but the communication attempts and reading of dispute info ect.)

 

Oh well, guess i need to try and forget about it and do some productive work until Upwork intervine.


Jonathan H wrote:

 

Im most annoyed about the fact ive now wasted so much time on this (not just the work, but the communication attempts and reading of dispute info ect.)


I believe we discussed the need for you to be more careful when choosing clients previously?

Hmmmm, Possibly - dont worry i feel suitably guilty - though with the clients decent track record (which i did take a good look at) i felt things would be Ok (If the client had not had such good previous history then i would not have took the risk without much more defined deliverables)


Jonathan H wrote:

Noureldin Y wrote:

you'll get your 291$ back, but only if you're sure that you delivered what they wish.


I Clearly have NOT delivered what they 'wish' - that is the issue, I want to deliver a finished product to the client that they are happy with, but they seem unable or unwilling to communicate more than a couple of words.


Jonathan, do yourself a favour and completely ignore Noureldin who enjoys waffling about things he hasn't a clue about.


What happens now is that you and the client are thrown into a message room to try and come to an agreement among yourselves.

If that does not work, the dispute person will see what each of you are willing to accept

If there is no agreement, the dispute person will make a non-binding suggestion

If you can't both agree to that, the choice for arbitration rears its head.

If you pay for arbitration and the client does not, you get the money in Escrow and your arbitration fee back.

If you don't pay for arbitration and the client does, he gets the money in Escrow and his arbitration fee back.

If both of you pay for arbitration, it goes to arbitration (stupid for $ 100)


Whether you have delivered what they "wish" is irrelevant. All that matters is that you delivered what was agreed.



you just extended what I wrote, lol, but I won't argue, maybe you're half-awake Smiley Wink


Nonsense.

 


you'll get your 291$ back, but only if you're sure that you delivered what they wish.

It could not be more irrelevant what he delivered or what the client wished, if the client does not pay for arbitration, the funds in Escrow go to the freelancer, along with the escrow funds


Petra R wrote:

What happens now is that you and the client are thrown into a message room to try and come to an agreement among yourselves.

If that does not work, the dispute person will see what each of you are willing to accept

If there is no agreement, the dispute person will make a non-binding suggestion

If you can't both agree to that, the choice for arbitration rears its head.

If you pay for arbitration and the client does not, you get the money in Escrow and your arbitration fee back.

If you don't pay for arbitration and the client does, he gets the money in Escrow and his arbitration fee back.

If both of you pay for arbitration, it goes to arbitration (stupid for $ 100)


Whether you have delivered what they "wish" is irrelevant. All that matters is that you delivered what was agreed.


Thanks Petra,

   I think we are in the message room now and the client has already rejected the dispute, so will await Upwork intervention now.

 

If both of you pay for arbitration, it goes to arbitration (stupid for $ 100)

 

I tend to agree, though I see no reason it would sway to the client, Am i right in thinking that no matter what the outcome nobody gets the fee of $291 back?


Jonathan H wrote:

If both of you pay for arbitration, it goes to arbitration (stupid for $ 100)

 

I tend to agree, though I see no reason it would sway to the client,


It tends to sway the person who was NOT the first to fund arbitration.
Cheap client like that is NOT going to spend near $ 300 to get $ 100 they already spent back - just not gonna happen.

It becomes a bluffing game at that stage.

 


Jonathan H wrote:

, Am i right in thinking that no matter what the outcome nobody gets the fee of $291 back?

If arbitration goes forward then no, nobody gets it back.

 

I'm just curious, what are you going to do?

 

Sorry you're in this situation.  Every project here is a learning experience. 

 

Robin H wrote:

 

I'm just curious, what are you going to do?

 

Sorry you're in this situation.  Every project here is a learning experience. 

 


Well, for now i am waiting for upwork to jump in and start making suggestions.

 

I have been more than happy to make changes from the start and have tried my best to encourage the client to provide some kind of feedback about what it is he actually wants. However, at this point in all honesty for me - the best outcome will be for the client to make a partial payment for the work already done and then draw a line under it.

 

I am going to push for that, and see how upwork and the client respond. I am not thinking any further than that at this point. It seems fairly obvious that if i stump up $291 that the client is not likely to do the same, but i would really rather get things resolved before it gets that far.

 


Well, for now i am waiting for upwork to jump in and start making suggestions.

 

I have been more than happy to make changes from the start and have tried my best to encourage the client to provide some kind of feedback about what it is he actually wants. However, at this point in all honesty for me - the best outcome will be for the client to make a partial payment for the work already done and then draw a line under it.

 

I am going to push for that, and see how upwork and the client respond. I am not thinking any further than that at this point. It seems fairly obvious that if i stump up $291 that the client is not likely to do the same, but i would really rather get things resolved before it gets that far.

 

I agree with this approach.  Even a small payment for your time will do.  But if he's unwilling to do that, I would suggest walking away.  It's just not worth your time and energy.