Disrespectful rates.

[carloslobo28]

How is it possible tha some clients are offering half a penny or sometimes less per word in translation? Should not Upwork have a minimum acceptable? Can I flag these jobs? 

On the other hand, can you see my profile? Do I look like a successfull person or not?

[tlsanders]

You can flag anything you want, but there's no rule against low per-word rates. 

If you feel disrespected, you're taking a stranger's job posting too personally. What a stranger on the internet can afford or what it's worth to his/her business to get a job done is no reflection on your skills or value. 

[prestonhunter]

re: "Should not Upwork have a minimum acceptable?"

Upwork DOES have minimum rates.

Minimum of $5.00 for any fixed-price contract.

Minimum of $3/per hour for hourly rates.

re: "Can I flag these jobs?"

No.

The purpose of flagging job postings is to flag postings which violate Upwork ToS.

You may NOT flag job postings which do not meet your personal preferences.

I do not eat chocolate. But it would be wrong for me to flag a job posting asking freelancers to write a blog post about their favorite chocolate candy.

[feed_my_eyes]

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Carlos L wrote:

How is it possible tha some clients are offering half a penny or sometimes less per word in translation? Should not Upwork have a minimum acceptable? Can I flag these jobs? 

On the other hand, can you see my profile? Do I look like a successfull person or not?

---

I can see from your profile that you've been charging low rates yourself - you've got fixed price jobs for $7, $8, $9 - and these are lower prices than many other translators would consider to be acceptable. But you have every right to set your own rates and not work for pay that you consider too low, just like everybody else does.

[carloslobo28]

Thank everyone for your answer; Christine: I'm not the cheapest translator, these jobs were just 200, 50,  or 25 words to translate that is acceptable for $5, I've never worked for less than a penny a word.

[resultsassoc]

The value of paid work is determined by the client. The value of a freelancer's effort is determined by the freelancer. Proposing a price of $4M/word isn't an insult to the client, nor is the client's proposal of half a cent per word an insult to the freelancer.

[luce-neidert]

Carlos, I'm myself a translator, and I've written many times on this topic.

First, I'm afraid there are many English to Spanish translators on Upwork, and that doesn't help. Then, if you have the Freelancer plus plan, you can get an idea of what other freelancers are bidding for a job and you can see how simple-minded most of them are. There's always someone willing to work for nothing, just to get their first job on Upwork. That doesn't help anyone, but these are the facts. And then, there's the competition of "translators" who in fact just use a machine translator and don't even check anything. I've got tons of stories about that.

Clients are naive, even when you warn them that translations at $0.01 can't be that good, they don't know anything about translation and don't see they are heading for trouble.

So, you just have to be patient and try to get to work for clients who know translation is more than using a machine.

[petra_r]

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Carlos L wrote:

 I've never worked for less than a penny a word.

---

That's as bad as half a penny per word.

Ultimately clients offer those low rates because some freelancers agree to work for those rates.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

I would no more flag a chap translation client as I would flag translators who work for a penny a word.

There is clearly a market for bottom of the barrel services, so those clients aren't for me and those freelancers aren't for my clients.

[luce-neidert]

Petra, please remember that you have the priviledge of dealing with English into German translation, where you have much less competition than the English into Spanish translators have.

[petra_r]

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Luce N wrote:

Petra, please remember that you have the priviledge of dealing with English into German translation, where you have much less competition than the English into Spanish translators have.

---

One of my dearest friends, who is an English to Spanish translator, charges the same rates as I do.

You are absolutely right that EN > Spanish is an overcrowded field, but that does not change the fact that a Cent per word is near the bottom of the barrel.

[luce-neidert]

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Petra R wrote:

---

---

One of my dearest friends, who is an English to Spanish translator, charges the same rates as I do.

You are absolutely right that EN > Spanish is an overcrowded field, but that does not change the fact that a Cent per word is near the bottom of the barrel.

---

---

Petra, I'm glad to hear about your English to Spanish translation friend. At least one person is getting a normal pay for her hard work.

[carloslobo28]

So what are your rates per word? I'm asking to translators here.

[petra_r]

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Carlos L wrote:

So what are your rates per word? I'm asking to translators here.

---

Take a look at this

[carloslobo28]

Thanks Petra, but the question starts againg, why Upwork allows such clients here, consider that I'm all day seeing posts that offer 1, 2 cents per word. As client I asked for translator and their rates, the majority said the rate is 1 cent per word, less for 2,3. Now I think I was working right the other day I had two projects each of around 200 words pay $60 and the other $50. Today I had a client and she asked my rate I said her 2 cents and still I don't hear back. For example.

[petra_r]

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Carlos L wrote:

Thanks Petra, but the question starts againg, why Upwork allows such clients here,

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Because Upwork does not and absolutely should not start meddling and micro-managing. It's up to clients and freelancers to negotiate their business.

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Carlos L wrote:

 As client I asked for translator and their rates, the majority said the rate is 1 cent per word, less for 2,3.

---

You did? Why are you hiring a translator? 

Of course there are way more cheap jobs than jobs that pay a Cent a word, but the well paying clients are out there if you can sell your value to them.

[carloslobo28]

Petra, I was curious about their cover letters, their rates. The lowest rate was three words per a cent, other say he is willing to work for anything. Regarding the cover letter I found out I was right it's useless to put much there if only shows two lines and there if the client open the profile will see all. If I could sell my services for 3,5 cents a word I will be master hehe.

[mtngigi]

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Carlos L wrote:

Petra, I was curious about their cover letters, their rates. The lowest rate was three words per a cent, other say he is willing to work for anything. Regarding the cover letter I found out I was right it's useless to put much there if only shows two lines and there if the client open the profile will see all. If I could sell my services for 3,5 cents a word I will be master hehe.

---

I hope your job post was meant to actually hire someone.

[feed_my_eyes]

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Virginia F wrote:

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Carlos L wrote:

Petra, I was curious about their cover letters, their rates. The lowest rate was three words per a cent, other say he is willing to work for anything. Regarding the cover letter I found out I was right it's useless to put much there if only shows two lines and there if the client open the profile will see all. If I could sell my services for 3,5 cents a word I will be master hehe.

---

I hope your job post was meant to actually hire someone.

---

Yes, I hope so too. But it sounds like the OP posted a fake project just to check out his competition?

[petra_r]

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Carlos L wrote:

Petra, I was curious about their cover letters, their rates.

---

So you created a fake job post and let other people spend their time and money (paid connects) on applying for a job that was never real.

Aren't you ashamed of yourself conning people like that?

Disgusting.

[06a6be43]

I share this sentiment.

Ignore the lowballers and stand out as quality.

By posting a fake job to "test" the market, you've effectively become worse than the lowballers. You have freelancers knowingly wasting their time & effort just so you can get free market research.

[resultsassoc]

"So you created a fake job post and let other people spend their time and money (paid connects) on applying for a job that was never real.

Aren't you ashamed of yourself conning people like that?

Disgusting."

Petra, Read the preceeding posts in order. You're spiraling downward on this man whose English comprehension is questionable. Now, that may be why he is getting lowball offers. But, attack his English comprehension and not his ethics, please.

[petra_r]

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Bill H wrote:

Petra, Read the preceeding posts in order.

---

Bill, as you're missing both the points of this thread, you may want to do so yourself. Let me explain it to you:

The OP was complaining about low rates and demanded to be protected from low rates by Upwork.

It was pointed out to him that his own rates are in the same ballpark as those he demanded to be protected from.

He then proceeded to reveal that he posts fake job posts he has no intention of hiring anyone on, to find out other people's cover letter and rates, which is not only a violation of the terms of service, it is also a horrible thing to do, as it steals other freelancers' time and money.

---

Bill H wrote:

But, attack his English comprehension and not his ethics, please.

---

I have no intention of attacking his poor English, which is none of my business and not his choice.

Posting fake jobs that cost other people money just to spy on them and see their cover letters is not a question of language competetence, it's a deliberate choice to steal other peoples' time and money and therefor indeed a matter of ethics.

Please do let me know if anything remains unclear to you.

[lysis10]

---

Bill H wrote:

"So you created a fake job post and let other people spend their time and money (paid connects) on applying for a job that was never real.

Aren't you ashamed of yourself conning people like that?

Disgusting."

Petra, Read the preceeding posts in order. You're spiraling downward on this man whose English comprehension is questionable. Now, that may be why he is getting lowball offers. But, attack his English comprehension and not his ethics, please.

---

You should take your own advice and read her post again. She did no such thing.

[colettelewis]

I believe the OP has been on this site for years. Somehow a new account materialized.

The answer to "disrespectful" is that there is no such thing. If a client posts a ridiculously low budget and a freelancer agrees to work for it, that is up to the client and the hired freelancer. The client may or may not get good work. The client may or may not know if he or she has received good work. 

Professional translators do not work for absurd rates and will ignore low-paying job offers. 

[lysis10]

It's kinda funny he's complaining about disrespect when he posted a fake job just to steal cover letters. lol So he wasted connects from people who can't even afford them and he's talking about lowballing clients. Hilllllllarious.

[resultsassoc]

"You did? Why are you hiring a translator? 

Of course there are way more cheap jobs than jobs that pay a Cent a word, but the well paying clients are out there if you can sell your value to them."

Petra, I give Boards of Directors presentations in English, German, Spanish, French, Portuguese, Itsalisan and once in Arabic. I hired a highly-competent UW translator to handle an English-to-French translation of instructions to a design engineer. If it had been a recipe, I might have done it myself.

Selling one's value is difficult in all cases. Few UW clients understand the required background for a profession other than their own, and I suspect many believe the hype about getting world class experts for pennies on the dollar. Identifying clients who can aford professional rates before submitting a response is an acquired skill; even then, none of us knows the intimate details of another's financial situation. Your translation is doubtless worth $1,000, but that's meaningless if I only have $50.

[martina_plaschka]

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Carlos L wrote:

How is it possible tha some clients are offering half a penny or sometimes less per word in translation? Should not Upwork have a minimum acceptable? Can I flag these jobs? 

On the other hand, can you see my profile? Do I look like a successfull person or not?

---

I can't open some of the attachments in your portfolio, so that would impact my hiring decision negatively if I were a client. You quote your English level as fluent, which probably is a fair assessment, but you shouldn't translate into English at that level, only into your native language. Your English writing examples are not doing you any favors in that regard. 

[carloslobo28]

Thank you everyone; by thinking a little someone can realize that a client willing to pay let's say a penny per word and asking for an expert, that is funny and someone in this world must say them: how can you expect for an expert at that price? 

[tlsanders · Accepted solution]

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Carlos L wrote:

 and someone in this world must say them: how can you expect for an expert at that price? 

---

It depends on your priorities. Many of us have found that it makes more sense to focus on the clients who are willing to pay our rates and not bother to interact with the lowballers at all.

[tlbp]

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Carlos L wrote:

Thank you everyone; by thinking a little someone can realize that a client willing to pay let's say a penny per word and asking for an expert, that is funny and someone in this world must say them: how can you expect for an expert at that price? 

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Well, at least they are offering to pay instead of tricking other freelancers into spending their connects on a fake job. 

[carloslobo28]

I was expecting you to say something like that, but I may hire someone in the future, to prove this I can say that actually I hired two people in the past already. What if I say I can hire a translator if I get two jobs at the same time and can't handle it? you will say: shameless, outsourcing his work. You're so predictable.

[feed_my_eyes]

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Carlos L wrote:

I was expecting you to say something like that, but I may hire someone in the future, to prove this I can say that actually I hired two people in the past already. What if I say I can hire a translator if I get two jobs at the same time and can't handle it? you will say: shameless, outsourcing his work. You're so predictable.

---

Sorry if you're being misjudged, but considering that your original post was to complain about the low rates on Upwork, it doesn't sound like you have so much work that you need to outsouce. Also, you did say, "Petra, I was curious about their cover letters, their rates," and not "I needed to hire people." So I think you can see why we thought that you posted a job out of curiosity, and not out of necessity. 

[carloslobo28]

Christine, factors that are around the topic, why to post a job, sometimes we feel innecessary to say "obvious" things, I don't particularly like that, but what is obvious and what is not? I'm sure I'll be hiring a translator in sometime. I've many interviews nowadays I'm sure I'll have more work in the near future. Don't be sorry it's alright.

[06a6be43]

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Carlos L wrote:

I'm sure I'll be hiring a translator in sometime.

---

Imagine you see a job posting. You spend time writing a stellar, custom proposal for it - not some copy & paste spam. Only to eventually hear back from the client (if you even hear back) something along the lines of...

"I don't need anyone right now. I'm sure I'll be hiring at some time."

You wouldn't feel as if your valuable time was wasted on someone that isn't at the hiring phase? This isn't really the platform for, "I think I might need you."  We (freelancers) pay (connects) to be considered.

Long story short. Who cares what anyone else is doing. Price yourself based on the value you provide and the right clients will find you.

There are freelancers that charge $3/hour in my category. I charge ~50x that. I could care less what goes on at the <$10/hr range. It isn't the client for me. And they may not need the added value/experience I provide. 

[feed_my_eyes]

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Carlos L wrote:

I'm sure I'll be hiring a translator in sometime. I've many interviews nowadays I'm sure I'll have more work in the near future. 

---

So did you hire somebody, or not? ("In the near future" doesn't count.)

[luce-neidert]

Please understand that what Carlos did (post a job to see freelancer's reactions) is not nice but many people have done it. I've done it once because I had been told by someone offering a nice translation that my rates where four times higher the rates of some freelancers and I wanted to check. We all know it's wrong, but we've all read posts by people admitting they had done it.

At least, we admit having done it, and dare to tell everyone so. Many keep it secret.

Earlier on, Carlos asked how much we translators charged, and I bet noone answered, this is why he had to organise his own "enquiry". Anyone willing to say how much they charge?

[petra_r]

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Luce N wrote:

Earlier on, Carlos asked how much we translators charged, and I bet noone answered,

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I believe I pointed him to a list of ranges per language

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Luce N wrote:

Please understand that what Carlos did (post a job to see freelancer's reactions) is not nice but many people have done it. I've done it once

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I remember and that was before people had to spend money to bid. Also, Carlos didn't post that job because nobody told him where they charge (not that it's relevant anyway.)

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Luce N wrote:

Anyone willing to say how much they charge?

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Why not, I charge as standard 9 or 10 Cent a word, more for complicated stuff, significantly more in some cases, and go down to7 or 8 Cent for large volumes of easy stuff.

That does not help Carlos at all because we work on different language pairs and are at different stages of our journey. There are people who translate my language pairs for a Cent a word. So it does not really matter if anyone answered the question or not, the answers would not apply to him.

[luce-neidert]

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Petra R wrote:

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Luce N wrote:

Earlier on, Carlos asked how much we translators charged, and I bet noone answered,

---

I believe I pointed him to a list of ranges per language

---

Luce N wrote:

Please understand that what Carlos did (post a job to see freelancer's reactions) is not nice but many people have done it. I've done it once

---

I remember and that was before people had to spend money to bid. Also, Carlos didn't post that job because nobody told him where they charge (not that it's relevant anyway.)

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Luce N wrote:

Anyone willing to say how much they charge?

---

Why not, I charge as standard 9 or 10 Cent a word, more for complicated stuff, significantly more in some cases, and go down to 8 Cent for large volumes of easy stuff.

That does not help Carlos at all because we work on different language pairs and are at different stages of our journey. There are people who translate my language pairs for a Cent a word. So it does not really matter if anyone answered the question or not, the answers would not apply to him.

---

Well, Petra, sending him the Proz document is not that helpful. I have not yet been able to charge as much this documents advises.

However, thanks for sharing about your rates. That's interesting information, or at least what's interesting about it is to know that some clients here pay decent rates.

[tlbp]

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Luce N wrote:

Please understand that what Carlos did (post a job to see freelancer's reactions) is not nice but many people have done it. I've done it once because I had been told by someone offering a nice translation that my rates where four times higher the rates of some freelancers and I wanted to check. We all know it's wrong, but we've all read posts by people admitting they had done it.

At least, we admit having done it, and dare to tell everyone so. Many keep it secret.

Earlier on, Carlos asked how much we translators charged, and I bet noone answered, this is why he had to organise his own "enquiry". Anyone willing to say how much they charge?

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So, if your competitors won't give you their commercial information, it is okay to use deception as a means to steal it from them?  

[petra_r]

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Tonya P wrote:

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Earlier on, Carlos asked how much we translators charged, and I bet noone answered, this is why he had to organise his own "enquiry". Anyone willing to say how much they charge?

---

So, if your competitors won't give you their commercial information, it is okay to use deception as a means to steal it from them?  

---

In fairness, when Luce did this, she did so before paid connects and did concede that is was a s***y thing to do. (which it is.)