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Dissatisfied with Upwork at Present

Ace Contributor
Saeeda Sarwat N Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
1 of 35

1- Connects Management:

Having to buy connects is understandable as then there are less proposals submitted which makes it easier for the client to hire. But there are 2 main issues associated with connects' management system:

a) There are clients who post a job and many times they don’t view the job proposals or they don’t even bother hiring anyone (I have seen this happen for many weeks and months). Hence there should be a specific time during which a client should be bound to hire an UpWorker and beyond that time the job should automatically close and connects should be returned to all the applicants as not even one applicant was hired.

b) Now that Upworkers are paying for connects as well as spending a lot of their precious time to apply for suitable jobs, which takes hours of searching and much more time for targeted proposal writing therefore Upwork should definitely reduce their fee from 20% back to 10% as it was 3-4 years back, before the merger. Unless we can track our time and be paid by UpWork for time we spend to apply for jobs.


2- Job snippets:

It should be an understandable fact that UpWork cannot be successful without the freelancers. These days UpWorkers are paying for the connects in addition to the 20%, 10% and 5% commission on every cent earned; but still nothing is being done to save their time and effort when they are trying to apply for jobs; even though it can help UpWork become a much more effective tool for online job search.

Job snippets must mention the following to save Freelancers time:
a) Number of Connects required to apply for the job

b) Must have qualifications, skills, location which are specified by the client. Instead of freelancers opening an entire job post scrolling down/while submitting proposal and then finding unique specifications without which the client is not even ready to view someone’s proposal. Then these should definitely appear on the main job dashboard as part of the job snippet to save time. As Upworkers aren’t charging anything for the time they spend applying for jobs.


I have sent request for this previously to customer support but nothing seems to be changed.


3-Racism from Clients:

Mostly client from USA, Canada and UK seem to prefer hiring UpWorkers from First world countries. Even though it initially seems that they are looking for workers who are native English speakers and also who live in the same time zone. But that is not the actual case, as there are so many workers with a better online jobs rating, better English accent and good client feedback but still the preference to hire and pay a higher dollar rate is always taken by those who live and work in USA, UK, and Europe.

Yes, there are many clients who hire from Asian countries or third World countries but then their highest priority is to hire at the lowest rates even if they are looking for an Expert to complete the job.

Similarly take an example of a Project Manager, if hired from Pakistan etc. countries then a client is only willing to pay ranging between $3 - $10. But I have witnessed clients paying even $50/hour to a project manager who was residing in USA with similar skills but less years of online experience.

There may be other aspects to this issue but being an UpWorker for a long time now I have noticed the same thing when clients higher website developers. Paying $7- $10 per hour to Asians. But ready to pay $25 and above hourly to workers living in USA, UK etc.

3-Solution:

Clients should not be able to view the residing countries of UpWorkers rather they should only be able to view skills, job experience and only those aspects which really matter when the job contract will actually start. In case the time zone is of high concern then the client can add it in the job post the time zone they need the worker to be available at, hence the workers who cannot work during a certain time zone won’t apply. And if they are concerned about the native English accent etc. then an interview or an audio file from the freelancer can help sort that out.


I hope my feedback will actually be taken seriously as I have thoughtfully and sincerely written the main issues for the betterment and success of UpWork and UpWorkers.

 

 

Moderator
Valeria K Moderator Member Since: Mar 6, 2014
2 of 35

Hi Saeeda Sarwat,

 

Thanks for sharing your feedback and suggestions. Let me address some of the points you listed.

 

1. I'm not aware of any plans to change the structure of Upwork Service Fee or automatically close job postings (job postings that have no activity for over 30 days already do expire.)

That said, we do encourage clients to create more-detailed job posts, reach out to clients who post jobs and don’t hire, and are looking into other ways to better ensure jobs that don't hire get closed. Another area we are looking at closely is helping freelancers better evaluate a job post and client so they can decide whether it is worth using Connects to submit a proposal.

 

2. By Job Snippet do you mean the information about the job you see on the Submit Proposal page? In that case the information like the number of connects needed is already showing there. Or are you referring to the job tiles that show in job search?

 

3. Again, I'm not aware of any plans to remove location information from freelancer profiles or job posts. There are various reasons why clients may need to hire freelancers in a specific country/area. Their projects may require localized knowledge, the possibility of on-site coordination, specific compliance needs or other factors. 

As for the rates and budgets offered, at Upwork the terms of any contract, including the rate, are for clients and freelancers to decide upon together. Any freelancer who is not satisfied with the rate offered can negotiate a higher rate or find a project they consider to be more suitable.

~ Valeria
Untitled
Ace Contributor
Saeeda Sarwat N Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
3 of 35

2- By Job snippet I am referring to the job titles/snippets on the main UpWork dashboard/feed.

Active Member
moez B Member Since: Sep 21, 2018
4 of 35

Hi Valeria,

I am a freelancer in this network since 2007  (an early odesker and elancer).

Do you think Upwork is basically using freelancers money and time to finance the "free job posting" for the clients?

Thanks.

 

Community Guru
Amanda L Member Since: Jan 23, 2018
5 of 35

moez B wrote:

Hi Valeria,

I am a freelancer in this network since 2007  (an early odesker and elancer).

Do you think Upwork is basically using freelancers money and time to finance the "free job posting" for the clients?

Thanks.

 


Moez, do you think clients would post jobs and that you'd find work if they had to pay for every job post? I've hired 3 freelancers in the last 30 days, projects went great, I was very happy,  and they were paid, but if I had to pay to post these jobs, I'd go elsewhere.  It's in our best interest that clients are not charged to post jobs. But, if you're asking if clients pay no fees, that's not true. Clients pay a variety of different fees, just as freelancers do. 

Active Member
moez B Member Since: Sep 21, 2018
6 of 35

>>  Clients pay a variety of different fees, just as freelancers do.

Amanda, I would like to not pay fees when you don't have too as well ... but it is not about clients Vs freelancers here, no. 

>> It's in our best interest that clients are not charged to post jobs.

No, I don't think Upwork is offering the clients free job posting because they won't use the platform otherwise. I am totally convinced that a client will *happily* pay a fee (at least monthly) to just be able to use the potential of profitability that the freelance market and this platform (Upwork) is offering. Frankly, who is here because a job posting is free?

It seems to me that Upwork could sustain its business just by the "connects"  fees and without a single real job contracted!! 

To me, being able to apply for free is not even close to a just situation and this is why:

Consider 1 free job posted by the average client that happens that he/she has the comfort to just forget about that post the same day or a few days later.

What happens when a job like that is posted :

-  Lots of "connects" used by the applicants applying till the last day before Upwork removes the ghost job.

-  Lots of hours wasted by freelancers to asses the job and write a proposal.

- Possible side work sent by the freelancers either upon the client's request or to convince the client by a possible solution.

- Long technical discussions and meetings which many times were a trick to get some free insights or solutions from more skilled professionals.

etc..

Considering the disproportioned amount of *damage* that a scam job posting does (compared to "scam proposal") I kindly demand that Upwork do something about it.

I don't demand that clients pay for job posting, I only demand that Upwork ethically review this situation which mostly damages the freelancers, as there was a time when ODesk and Elance have done lots of profits with free job/proposal posting.

 

Ace Contributor
Saeeda Sarwat N Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
7 of 35

I am concerned about a similar issue. Last night I raised the this issue to the support team.
"Hi, Just now I have applied for a job but after applying I noticed that client has a total of 4 jobs posted but 0% hire rate. Out of these only 1 job is open that I have applied for and the other 3 are not showing.

It took 6 connects to apply for the job and the client payment method isnt even verified.

I am concerned if this is a genuine client who will actually hire someone as I really do want to have my 6 connects wasted on someone who just posts on UpWork every once in a while and just has fun with people applying to their job."

These are some of the many issues which UpWorkers are facing. There should be something done about these.

Community Guru
Amanda L Member Since: Jan 23, 2018
8 of 35

moez B wrote:

>>  Clients pay a variety of different fees, just as freelancers do.

Amanda, I would like to not pay fees when you don't have too as well ... but it is not about clients Vs freelancers here, no. 

I just told you that clients pay fees. It's not free.  And you quoted where I said we pay fees. **Edited for Community Guidelines**

>> It's in our best interest that clients are not charged to post jobs.

No, I don't think Upwork is offering the clients free job posting because they won't use the platform otherwise. I am totally convinced that a client will *happily* pay a fee (at least monthly) to just be able to use the potential of profitability that the freelance market and this platform (Upwork) is offering. Frankly, who is here because a job posting is free?

It seems to me that Upwork could sustain its business just by the "connects"  fees and without a single real job contracted!! 

I just told you that clients, including myself, will not pay to post jobs.  So what you "think" doesn' t matter. Clients will leave in multitudes if they start having to sign up for a monthly fee or individual fee for every job post. 

To me, being able to apply for free is not even close to a just situation and this is why:

Consider 1 free job posted by the average client that happens that he/she has the comfort to just forget about that post the same day or a few days later.

What happens when a job like that is posted :

-  Lots of "connects" used by the applicants applying till the last day before Upwork removes the ghost job.

-  Lots of hours wasted by freelancers to asses the job and write a proposal.

- Possible side work sent by the freelancers either upon the client's request or to convince the client by a possible solution.

- Long technical discussions and meetings which many times were a trick to get some free insights or solutions from more skilled professionals.

etc..

All you mention above will happen in ALL RFP processes, which is what Upwork essentially is providing. You basically just want a guaranteed gig for every application you submit, and no marketing costs for your business. Sorry bud, it costs money to make money. We all have business expenses. 

Considering the disproportioned amount of *damage* that a scam job posting does (compared to "scam proposal") I kindly demand that Upwork do something about it.

In what world is a "demand" "kind"? There is simply LOADS of information on Upwork about how to avoid scams. If you aren't reading up on how to use the platform, and risks and benefits, that's not on Upwork to fix. That is you not doing due diligence. 

I don't demand that clients pay for job posting, I only demand that Upwork ethically review this situation which mostly damages the freelancers, as there was a time when ODesk and Elance have done lots of profits with free job/proposal posting. 

You already stated that you don't think clients should be able to post jobs for free, so now you're saying you don't want that. Not sure why we're having any discussion then. 

 


 

Active Member
moez B Member Since: Sep 21, 2018
9 of 35

Amanda, I find your last reply full of emotions and a bit harsh and trying to discuss other things than facts.

 

This is for Upwork moderators if they were even reading this:

I've been a fulltime freelancer since ODesk, Elance and Upwork were created. I know the guidelines and conformed to every policy change since and never complained about anything. I was also successfully sustaining my family living mostly from my freelancing gain, during those years. I do currently have 3 long term contracts ongoing with good rates and happy clients, so obviously this is not an emotional post by a mad freelancer.

 

Today I come here to post my very first "complain" about a nonsense thing I am observing lately and I find someone else who was just complaining about the same thing a couple of days ago, and I am referring to Saeeda Sarwat N post.   I think this says it all.

Community Guru
Amanda L Member Since: Jan 23, 2018
10 of 35

moez B wrote:

Amanda, I find your last reply full of emotions and a bit harsh and trying to discuss other things than facts.

 

This is for Upwork moderators if they were even reading this:

I've been a fulltime freelancer since ODesk, Elance and Upwork were created. I know the guidelines and conformed to every policy change since and never complained about anything. I was also successfully sustaining my family living mostly from my freelancing gain, during those years. I do currently have 3 long term contracts ongoing with good rates and happy clients, so obviously this is not an emotional post by a mad freelancer.

 

Today I come here to post my very first "complain" about a nonsense thing I am observing lately and I find someone else who was just complaining about the same thing a couple of days ago, and I am referring to Saeeda Sarwat N post.   I think this says it all.


It's unfortunate you feel my reply was harsh but how you "feel" about Upwork is not a "fact." I presented you with facts about what clients pay and don't, and you are flipping back and forth between clients should pay and clients should not. 

 

This is a forum; therefore, many people will reply. If you don't like someone's response, then simply don't respond. If you don't like my response, then ignore me. But just like you, I am free to respond to a post by any person if I so choose or feel like I have something to contribute to the conversation. 

 

It's unfortunate that someone telling you how things actually work to correct your misperception is "full of emotions" and "harsh", but business is harsh, and my reply has no emotion in it. How you run your business is of no matter to me. But if you wish to continue with the misperceptions of what clients do or do not do and pay or do not pay, then that's fine. You have every right to ignore facts, if you want. 

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