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Dissatisfied with Upwork at Present

Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
11 of 35

moez B wrote:

Hi Valeria,

I am a freelancer in this network since 2007  (an early odesker and elancer).

Do you think Upwork is basically using freelancers money and time to finance the "free job posting" for the clients?

Thanks.

 


Job postings are literally the only reason for freelancers to come here. Why would you want to create an obstacle that meant fewer clients posted fewer jobs here? 

Community Guru
John B Member Since: Aug 20, 2015
12 of 35

You response was extremely well-written.  I read it several times and wish for better for you, on many counts.

 

"3-Racism from Clients:

Mostly client from USA, Canada and UK seem to prefer hiring UpWorkers from First world countries. Even though it initially seems that they are looking for workers who are native English speakers and also who live in the same time zone. But that is not the actual case, as there are so many workers with a better online jobs rating, better English accent and good client feedback but still the preference to hire and pay a higher dollar rate is always taken by those who live and work in USA, UK, and Europe."

 

PERSPECTIVE, PERSONAL
I make a point to hire from developing countries because I feel there is value in extending work to those that have it harder to win work.  Lagos, Bucharest, Kyiv, Surat, and Schimla (India) are examples of locations in which I have found superstar contractors.


Does that make me a racist in reverse?  Am I doing this because I want to pay my team members less?  Or - am I simply making a business decision according to the best-fit for my business mission overall? 

 

I am obviously not a racist.  Perhaps, then, the same can be said for those who "hire local".

 

PERSPECTIVE, THE CANNON SHOOTS TWO WAYS

If I were to hire a project manager offshore; the first requirement would be, they are available during my U.S. CST business hours.  Always.  Upon request.  Not my problem if that is 3am in the morning as a simple example.

None I have interviewed agreed to this.  Would you?
I hired in the U.S.

 

----

The topic is complex.  Before one starts shooting off cannon shots indicating an entire group of people are racist, one must be willing to stand in front of the cannon in return.

Community Leader
Varun G Member Since: Dec 11, 2019
13 of 35

OP, country-based hiring is not racist. Race-based hiring is racist. You'll often find that people who were raised and educated in developed countries come with a higher skill level than those who come from developing countries. That's not discrimination, it's a fact of life. Look at literacy rates, education rates, employment rates, GDP per capita... You and I are of the exact same race, but I've never felt any discrimination on this platform. Does this have anything to do with my race? No, probably not.

Remember, this is a money game. Clients are paying for value. They hire based on perceived value. They don't care about your ethnicity. They care about how skilled you are, they care about your language level (as that is the key to efficient communication and thus a successful project), they care about your experience with high-level employment. My two cents.

Community Guru
Christine A Member Since: May 4, 2016
14 of 35

Varun G wrote:

You'll often find that people who were raised and educated in developed countries come with a higher skill level than those who come from developing countries. That's not discrimination, it's a fact of life. 


Actually, making assumptions about somebody's education and skills based on where they're from, sounds a lot like discrimination to me. It's nice to hear that you've never personally experienced any problems on Upwork, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist. 

 

The OP didn't say that everybody on Upwork was racist, she just said that she wanted to be evaluated on her experience and skills rather than where she's from. I understand that Upwork has reasons why they're not going to consider her request, but I wouldn't be so quick to jump in and tell her that she's wrong.

 

Ace Contributor
Saeeda Sarwat N Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
15 of 35

Exactly! I am trying to share my personal experience and analysis after working on Upwork for many jobs. I have been here when it was odesk and still around. So, I have noticed some issues while applying for jobs recently and have an opinion which I wanted to share with fellow workers.

Community Leader
Varun G Member Since: Dec 11, 2019
16 of 35

Christine A wrote:


Actually, making assumptions about somebody's education and skills based on where they're from, sounds a lot like discrimination to me.


I don't think that's wrong at all. The median literacy rate (or let's say, English proficiency rate) of US citizens is far, far, far greater than that of Indian citizens. Is it, thus, "discriminatory" to prefer a US citizen over an Indian citizen ceteris paribus? No, not at all. It's called being pragmatic. Call it whatever you want; it's not going to change.

Ace Contributor
Saeeda Sarwat N Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
17 of 35

"Race-based hiring is racist"

-Sure let me change my words from Racism to Origin based hiring is WRONG!

"Clients are paying for value. They hire based on perceived value. They don't care about your ethnicity. They care about how skilled you are, they care about your language level (as that is the key to efficient communication and thus a successful project), they care about your experience with high-level employment. "

-Exactly my point! If client are looking for the best dude for the job based on his/her skills etc. then that is what they should see. Therefore, if any part of their decision(from viewing a proposal to hiring a worker) is Really not based on origin then that should not be shown to the client. And only those skills etc. should be visible which really matter for the job success and client/UpWorker relationship.

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
18 of 35

OK, let me play "devil's advocate" here.

 

Would it not be also unfair if people from countries with a very low cost of living were, on average, paid the same rates as people who live in places with a very high cost of living?

 

Say people in country A need $ 1000 a month to have a nice standard of living, and people who live in country B need $ 4000 or more to have a comparable standard of living...

 

Essentially, if everyone, regardless of location, was paid the same, would that not mean that ultimately the person in country A would be paid 4 times as much as the person in country B?

Is that fair?

 

Of course clients have the right to know where their freelancers are from. It is not just a matter of price, it also has to do with cultural differences, with the way people communicate and their ways of doing business.  And timezones, too.

 

There will never be a time when Upwork will hide that information from clients, because it would lose them huge amounts of business.

 

And that would not do any of us, whereever we are, any good.

 

Community Guru
Christine A Member Since: May 4, 2016
19 of 35

Petra R wrote:

OK, let me play "devil's advocate" here.

 

Would it not be also unfair if people from countries with a very low cost of living were, on average, paid the same rates as people who live in places with a very high cost of living?

 

Say people in country A need $ 1000 a month to have a nice standard of living, and people who live in country B need $ 4000 or more to have a comparable standard of living...

 

Essentially, if everyone, regardless of location, was paid the same, would that not mean that ultimately the person in country A would be paid 4 times as much as the person in country B?

Is that fair?

 


What does fairness have to do with anything? Is it fair that CEOs make billions of dollars, while nurses and teachers earn a pittance by comparison? People charge what the market will pay them. I make more money than I strictly need in order to meet my cost of living; as do you, I assume. If you were to move to a country in which the cost of living was lower, would you be okay with clients assuming that they can start paying you $3/hour, because you don't "need" any more than that? 

Ace Contributor
Saeeda Sarwat N Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
20 of 35

100% Correct. 

On a side note: In the opposite way, It all trickles down to - would a fruit seller sell fruits to the poor for one-twentieth the prices just because they are poor? I dont think so!!

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