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bbmonkie3
Community Member

Do I have to use the time tracker in order to bill my hours on a project?

I'm not a fan of the time tracker app. I'm more accustomed to logging my own hours for each project on my own and then entering them at the end of each work day, since I don't always sit for long periods of time with one project, but often bounce around to several things at once. It looks like I'm able to do a manual time entry, but they're saying that time won't be eligible for payment protection, and that clients may even dispute it. Do I have to use this time tracker thing in order to get paid with protection?

13 REPLIES 13
pandoraharper
Community Member


leslie m wrote:

I'm not a fan of the time tracker app. I'm more accustomed to logging my own hours for each project on my own and then entering them at the end of each work day, since I don't always sit for long periods of time with one project, but often bounce around to several things at once. It looks like I'm able to do a manual time entry, but they're saying that time won't be eligible for payment protection, and that clients may even dispute it. Do I have to use this time tracker thing in order to get paid with protection?


If it's an hourly project, yes you do have to run the Upwork Time Tracker. It is indeed the only way to get have your payments protected. Be very careful with manual time. Even if clients are 100% fine with using that payment feature, things can go wrong that are outside everyones control that can fubar the manual time payments.

 

It sucks, but if you want to get paid, use it. And don't forget about Memo's. Those need to be entered as well. I use the same one all the time, but it's 3 lines of text that pretty outlines what I do for my customer all day long, every day.

 

 

Thanks for the quick response! So there's no way to enter time after
you've completed it then? I just have to stop and start this stopwatch time
tracker thing all day for each project?

You can enter the time manually (if the client allows it) but you won't be eligible for payment protection. If a client decides to dispute your hours, you won't get paid.

Leslie, there are LOTS of successful Upwork freelancers who don't use the time-tracker.

 

As long as you understand the advantages and disadvantages, there is nothing wrong with deciding for yourself whether or not to use it.

 

Personally, I nearly always use it.

 

The Payment Protection is a good thing. But as long as you only work with trustworthy clients, Payment Protection and the time-tracker are unnecessary. Pandora observes that "things can go wrong that are outside everyones control." Okay... maybe a client genuinely can have an issue with their credit card. But if a client is 100% trustworthy, she will do whatever it takes to make sure you get paid through Upwork.

 

Are all Upwork clients trustworthy? No. But most are.

Thank you guys! I appreciate the help!


leslie m wrote:
I just have to stop and start this stopwatch time
tracker thing all day for each project?

Don't do that, it will create an incredibly messy work diary and likely unpaid segments, as well as segments with seemingly very low activity levels.

 

The tracker is spectacularly unsuitable for people who flit between tasks and stop-start.

 

It works best if you start at the beginning of a given 10 minute segment (10.10 or 10.11 for example) and then track one contract continuously for an hour or so.

 

If you stop during a segment before a screenshot was taken, the segment does not count. If a screenshot is taken at 10.21 and you stop at 20.22, the client is charged for 10 minutes, but there will be only an activity level of 1. You can't stop and start repeatedly in the same time segment.

 


Pandora H wrote:

 

It sucks, but if you want to get paid, use it. And don't forget about Memo's. Those need to be entered as well. I use the same one all the time, but it's 3 lines of text that pretty outlines what I do for my customer all day long, every day.

Just wondering... Have you ever had it confirmed that entering the same memo all the time will be considered adequate if your time is ever disputed? I wonder whether there's a fixed rule about what sort of memos are needed for protection,  or if it's left up to the discretion of the Upwork person handling the dispute. 


 


Richard W wrote:

Pandora H wrote:

 

It sucks, but if you want to get paid, use it. And don't forget about Memo's. Those need to be entered as well. I use the same one all the time, but it's 3 lines of text that pretty outlines what I do for my customer all day long, every day.

Just wondering... Have you ever had it confirmed that entering the same memo all the time will be considered adequate if your time is ever disputed? I wonder whether there's a fixed rule about what sort of memos are needed for protection,  or if it's left up to the discretion of the Upwork person handling the dispute. 


 


I've always wondered about this, too. I usually just put something like "Working on brochure layout" and let that ride unless I'm switching to a different task ("Doing a photo search" or "proofreading text"). I've never been involved in a dispute and honestly don't know if my memos would be detailed enough to pass inspection. Are you supposed to write something specific every time there's a screen capture? (I probably should have asked this question a long time ago!)


Christine A wrote:

Richard W wrote:

Pandora H wrote:

 

It sucks, but if you want to get paid, use it. And don't forget about Memo's. Those need to be entered as well. I use the same one all the time, but it's 3 lines of text that pretty outlines what I do for my customer all day long, every day.

Just wondering... Have you ever had it confirmed that entering the same memo all the time will be considered adequate if your time is ever disputed? I wonder whether there's a fixed rule about what sort of memos are needed for protection,  or if it's left up to the discretion of the Upwork person handling the dispute. 


 


I've always wondered about this, too. I usually just put something like "Working on brochure layout" and let that ride unless I'm switching to a different task ("Doing a photo search" or "proofreading text"). I've never been involved in a dispute and honestly don't know if my memos would be detailed enough to pass inspection. Are you supposed to write something specific every time there's a screen capture? (I probably should have asked this question a long time ago!)


The Payment Protection terms have so many outs, I think Upwork can probably get by with a lot of denials if it chooses to do so. For example, the TOS allows Upwork to base the rate you are paid for protected hours on your averages. So as I understand it, if you agreed to work with a client for $100 per hour and your historic rate is $50 per hour, Upwork can refuse to pay the higher rate for the covered (protected) hours. 

petra_r
Community Member


Tonya P wrote:

So as I understand it, if you agreed to work with a client for $100 per hour and your historic rate is $50 per hour, Upwork can refuse to pay the higher rate for the covered (protected) hours. 

Am I the only one who remembers the posts from the girl who was really upset that Upwork didn't pay her $ 4200 for 6 hours at $ 700 per hour  when her client failed to pay? Her profile rate was under $ 10?

 

tlbp
Community Member


leslie m wrote:

I'm not a fan of the time tracker app. I'm more accustomed to logging my own hours for each project on my own and then entering them at the end of each work day, since I don't always sit for long periods of time with one project, but often bounce around to several things at once. It looks like I'm able to do a manual time entry, but they're saying that time won't be eligible for payment protection, and that clients may even dispute it. Do I have to use this time tracker thing in order to get paid with protection?


Upwork Payment Protection is an added benefit the platform provides to freelancers who want to avail themselves of it, and many do. But, if you choose to enter manual time only, then you are in no worse position than if you attempted to bill a client outside of Upwork for hours worked without being able to provide proof of time spent. EXCEPT, when you contract with a client outside of Upwork your contractual terms may include remedies for non-payment of unsupported hours that Upwork's TOS do not. (i.e., You might be able to take a client to small claims court and show various forms of evidence to prove your claim regarding the number of hours worked.) 

What will happen on Upwork is that if a client challenges your claim of hours work and you cannot support the claim with evidence from the time tracker, you will not "win" and won't be paid for those hours. If you do use the time tracker, show the minimum average amount of activity per time segment, and enter a memo describing the work, then if the client doesn't pay you can enforce Upwork's separate Payment Protection agreement. This agreement is not between you and the client, but between you and Upwork so its terms are separate from the obligations created by your contract with the client.   

wlyonsatl
Community Member

Tonya,

 

What makes you think an Upwork freelancer cannot take a client to small claims (or any other) court?

 

I have never noticed any Upwork prohibition against going to court to enforce performance or payment, so it would be interesting to see that what you say is true.

 

It might not be convenient if freelancer and client are in different countries or the amount in dispute is too small to justify the time, effort and expense of a formal lawsuit, but is it actually prohibited by Upwork's Terms of Service or other rules?

 

The exception I am aware of would be if the client and freelancer agree to go to arbitration. A key part of the arbitration agreement would likely be that both parties agree they will abide by the decision of the arbitrator and neither party can subsequently use the courts to resolve the dispute.

wlyonsatl
Community Member

Leslie,

 

There is no mechanism within the Upwork system to keep the client from refusing to actually pay you for manually-entered hours, even if Upwork shows the client will "allow" you to book manual time.

 

In reality, what is actually being "allowed" is you being allowed to work for free and hoping the client you don't really know well will actually pay. They sometimes don't agree to accept hours booked manually. And if the client refuses to accept your claim of manual hours worked, Upwork can/will do nothing to see that you get paid.

 

Always use TimeTracker if you'd like to have some assurance you'll get paid for your time spent working on hourly projects. Once you get to know a client well, trust them completely and you both agree that manual work time is the best approach, maybe manual time tracking will be a good idea.

 

I have done over 250 jobs on Upwork of which probably at least 90% were hourly and have only used manual hours twice. One client paid as agreed, the other refused to pay. I don't think 50/50 is good odds for getting paid. On the other hand, Upwork has stepped up with payment protection the handful of times I have properly booked work time on Time Tracker and there was a problem with the client's payment.

 

Good luck!

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