Do You Know Why I Hate Upwork

[victor_cuadrado]

Because it doesn't matter what techniques I use in my Cover Letters, it doesn't matter what experience I have, nor does it matter that I live in NYC trying to make ends meet, taking risks, and hustling... Upwork does nothing to prevent the industry from being Cutthroat. 

You have a new responsibility Upwork! If you're going to make it easy for any graphic designer and web designer to step in front of a client, then you can **bleep**ing REGULATE it, it's your responsibility.

Yes I'm upset, No I don't care about other people rejecting my rant, and seriously, Upwork makes me feel **Edited for Community Guidelines**

[tlsanders]

So, in a nutshell, you hate Upwork because this freelancing platform fails to change the fundamental nature of freelancing to suit you?

[victor_cuadrado]

Yeah, in a nutshell, I hate Upwork because they profit off of a freelancer enough to protect them. No? And what do you mean by "fundamental nature of freelancing", it's an Online Platform with a global reach... 

[prestonhunter · Accepted solution]

re: "nor does it matter that I live in NYC trying to make ends meet, taking risks, and hustling"

I can assure you that most graphic designers who work on Upwork do not live in NYC.

Living in NYC is more expensive than living other places. The rationale for living in New York City and working as a graphic designer would be that you have proximity to all of the potential clients in New York City who want to meet with and work with graphic designers face-to-face.

Clients use Upwork to hire graphic designers who do not live near them, but may live all over the world. Thus, if you are living in New York City and working as a graphic designer on Upwork, you are competing directly with other graphic designers who can indeed offer their services at lower costs.

[hoyle_editing]

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Victor V wrote:

Because it doesn't matter what techniques I use in my Cover Letters,

So, your not getting work from your cover letters? Yet others do? hmmm, and thats Upworks fault?? Yeah, sounds legit!

nor does it matter that I live in NYC trying to make ends meet,

NO, it doesnt, why should it? Upwork is an online worldwide platform, of course it does not matter, any more than the fact i'm in the UK trying desperatly to make ends meet so i can feed my family - The day Upwork choose where i live, THEN it matters. 

Use the fact your in NYC to your advantage, a big city with loads of work should make it easier for you to find local work - wish i could find local work but sadly the small village i live in doesnt meet the needs of my business.

You have a new responsibility Upwork! If you're going to make it easy for any graphic designer and web designer to step in front of a client, then you can **bleep**ing REGULATE it, it's your responsibility.

But, according to your first statement Upwork DOESNT make it easy? Or does it???

Yes I'm upset, No I don't care about other people rejecting my rant, and seriously, Upwork makes me feel **Edited for Community Guidelines**

Yes thats clear, but public forum, public comments. If Upwork is so bad then why not find local work or use other platforms that are better?

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[kbadeau]

Your profile is not public so I can't see what kind of experience you have, but I can assure you that as a designer with 25+ years' experience, when I joined Upwork I had to make some concessions to get my first gigs, so that I could build back up to where I was in the private sector.

[victor_cuadrado]

You realize there are apps and programs that make it easy for anyone to design their marketing tools. From websites to logos... I got C# and Python under the belt, I'm seriously considering head-chopping, forget cutthroat.

lol

PS, Everywhere there is a struggle. I'm saying Upwork takes 20%, but can't protect experienced designers... **Edited for Community Guidelines**. lol

[florydev]

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Victor V wrote:

You realize there are apps and programs that make it easy for anyone to design their marketing tools. From websites to logos... I got C# and Python under the belt, I'm seriously considering head-chopping, forget cutthroat.

lol

PS, Everywhere there is a struggle. I'm saying Upwork takes 20%, but can't protect experienced designers... **Edited for Community Guidelines**

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Protect you how?  From what?

It's hard to understand what your worried about because mostly what I want from Upwork is for them to stay out of my way.  For the most part, that is how it works.

[msublette]

This is what I always tell people who are frustrated with Upwork.  If you can find work locally, you should.  You should not get the bulk of your work through Upwork if you can make more money locally.  Why would you?  New York is huge!  There should be tons of clients.  The problem with face-to-face clients though is that the cost of aquisition is often very high.  But if you have resources and sources to aquire cliets locally cheaply, then don't spend your time here.  You have to factor that cost of aquisition into your pricing.  Personally, I have a combination of Upwork and other clients. My other clients are the bulk of my work.  However, I live in a smallish town with no jobs in my domain and very few clients who would pay me to work for them.  If I lived on the west coast, I'd probably just walk next door and get a full-time job with a company.  That said, most of my clients are actually located on the west coast.  Since I can charge cheaper rates than they are used to, but still twice what someone around here would pay, it's win-win. It's all part of the "game."  People in NYC are likely going to pay you more than what most people here can afford, unless they are in NYC, or the west coast where they are used to paying higher rates.  As a side note, I think overall, the graphic design professional space is saturated.  I'm not a graphic designer, but I work with a lot of them.  Both here on Upwork and out in the "real world"  I've seen graphic designers really struggle to find work.  So I don't think this is a problem with Upwork alone.  There are nearly 250,000 graphic designers on Upwork who have earned no money, and only 14,000 who have earned more than $10,000.  The median hourly rate is $10-$30.

[kbadeau]

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Michelle S wrote:

This is what I always tell people who are frustrated with Upwork.  If you can find work locally, you should.  You should not get the bulk of your work through Upwork if you can make more money locally.  Why would you?  New York is huge!  There should be tons of clients.  The problem with face-to-face clients though is that the cost of aquisition is often very high.  But if you have resources and sources to aquire cliets locally cheaply, then don't spend your time here.  You have to factor that cost of aquisition into your pricing.  Personally, I have a combination of Upwork and other clients. My other clients are the bulk of my work.  However, I live in a smallish town with no jobs in my domain and very few clients who would pay me to work for them.  If I lived on the west coast, I'd probably just walk next door and get a full-time job with a company.  That said, most of my clients are actually located on the west coast.  Since I can charge cheaper rates than they are used to, but still twice what someone around here would pay, it's win-win. It's all part of the "game."  People in NYC are likely going to pay you more than what most people here can afford, unless they are in NYC, or the west coast where they are used to paying higher rates.  As a side note, I think overall, the graphic design professional space is saturated.  I'm not a graphic designer, but I work with a lot of them.  Both here on Upwork and out in the "real world"  I've seen graphic designers really struggle to find work.  So I don't think this is a problem with Upwork alone.  There are nearly 250,000 graphic designers on Upwork who have earned no money, and only 14,000 who have earned more than $10,000.  The median hourly rate is $10-$30.

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Ironically one of my best clients is in NYC, because they have figured out that they can hire people on Upwork for a lot less than the guy next door. But as you said, it's a win for me, because they pay me twice what I could get in my own city.

[tlsanders]

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Kelly B wrote:

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Ironically one of my best clients is in NYC, because they have figured out that they can hire people on Upwork for a lot less than the guy next door. But as you said, it's a win for me, because they pay me twice what I could get in my own city.

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That's not ironic, it's a whole business model. I live in the rural Midwest and virtually all of my clients are in New York, New Jersey, California, and Florida.

[kbadeau]

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Tiffany S wrote:

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Kelly B wrote:

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Ironically one of my best clients is in NYC, because they have figured out that they can hire people on Upwork for a lot less than the guy next door. But as you said, it's a win for me, because they pay me twice what I could get in my own city.

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That's not ironic, it's a whole business model. I live in the rural Midwest and virtually all of my clients are in New York, New Jersey, California, and Florida.

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Ironic because people are telling him living in NYC is his advantage to getting work in NYC, compared to the rest of us.

[tlsanders]

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Kelly B wrote:

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Tiffany S wrote:

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Kelly B wrote:

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Ironically one of my best clients is in NYC, because they have figured out that they can hire people on Upwork for a lot less than the guy next door. But as you said, it's a win for me, because they pay me twice what I could get in my own city.

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That's not ironic, it's a whole business model. I live in the rural Midwest and virtually all of my clients are in New York, New Jersey, California, and Florida.

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Ironic because people are telling him living in NYC is his advantage to getting work in NYC, compared to the rest of us.

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Oh, yeah, a lot of people seem to be under the impression that there's some edge to focusing on your local market. I've never been able to get my mind around what it might be--even before the Internet. My first freelance gig involved mailing in floppy disks.

[richardsmith94]

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Victor V wrote:

Because it doesn't matter what techniques I use in my Cover Letters, it doesn't matter what experience I have, nor does it matter that I live in NYC trying to make ends meet, taking risks, and hustling... Upwork does nothing to prevent the industry from being Cutthroat. 

You have a new responsibility Upwork! If you're going to make it easy for any graphic designer and web designer to step in front of a client, then you can **bleep**ing REGULATE it, it's your responsibility.

Yes I'm upset, No I don't care about other people rejecting my rant, and seriously, Upwork makes me feel **Edited for Community Guidelines**

Victor, you got a dog? Get a dog. I can rant at him all I want and he dosn't reply, which is perfect. He definitely dosn't reply after I've let off a bit of steam telling me how well he's doing on Upwork.

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[gilbert-phyllis]

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Richard S wrote:

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Victor V wrote:

Because it doesn't matter what techniques I use in my Cover Letters, it doesn't matter what experience I have, nor does it matter that I live in NYC trying to make ends meet, taking risks, and hustling... Upwork does nothing to prevent the industry from being Cutthroat. 

You have a new responsibility Upwork! If you're going to make it easy for any graphic designer and web designer to step in front of a client, then you can **bleep**ing REGULATE it, it's your responsibility.

Yes I'm upset, No I don't care about other people rejecting my rant, and seriously, Upwork makes me feel **Edited for Community Guidelines**

Victor, you got a dog? Get a dog. I can rant at him all I want and he dosn't reply, which is perfect. He definitely dosn't reply after I've let off a bit of steam telling me how well he's doing on Upwork.

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That's nice. You won't learn much from him about how to be successful on UW, but whatever.

[richardsmith94]

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Phyllis G wrote:

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Richard S wrote:

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Victor V wrote:

Because it doesn't matter what techniques I use in my Cover Letters, it doesn't matter what experience I have, nor does it matter that I live in NYC trying to make ends meet, taking risks, and hustling... Upwork does nothing to prevent the industry from being Cutthroat. 

You have a new responsibility Upwork! If you're going to make it easy for any graphic designer and web designer to step in front of a client, then you can **bleep**ing REGULATE it, it's your responsibility.

Yes I'm upset, No I don't care about other people rejecting my rant, and seriously, Upwork makes me feel **Edited for Community Guidelines**

Victor, you got a dog? Get a dog. I can rant at him all I want and he dosn't reply, which is perfect. He definitely dosn't reply after I've let off a bit of steam telling me how well he's doing on Upwork.

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That's nice. You won't learn much from him about how to be successful on UW, but whatever.

I don't need him to. But 'whatever' thanks for your reply.

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[a_lipsey]

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Richard S wrote:

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Phyllis G wrote:

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Richard S wrote:

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Victor V wrote:

Because it doesn't matter what techniques I use in my Cover Letters, it doesn't matter what experience I have, nor does it matter that I live in NYC trying to make ends meet, taking risks, and hustling... Upwork does nothing to prevent the industry from being Cutthroat. 

You have a new responsibility Upwork! If you're going to make it easy for any graphic designer and web designer to step in front of a client, then you can **bleep**ing REGULATE it, it's your responsibility.

Yes I'm upset, No I don't care about other people rejecting my rant, and seriously, Upwork makes me feel **Edited for Community Guidelines**

Victor, you got a dog? Get a dog. I can rant at him all I want and he dosn't reply, which is perfect. He definitely dosn't reply after I've let off a bit of steam telling me how well he's doing on Upwork.

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That's nice. You won't learn much from him about how to be successful on UW, but whatever.

I don't need him to. But 'whatever' thanks for your reply.

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I bet Barney gives great advice. "Forget those dodos on UW. Scratch my belly, dad. That will make it all better." 

[tlsanders]

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Phyllis G wrote:

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Richard S wrote:

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Victor V wrote:

Because it doesn't matter what techniques I use in my Cover Letters, it doesn't matter what experience I have, nor does it matter that I live in NYC trying to make ends meet, taking risks, and hustling... Upwork does nothing to prevent the industry from being Cutthroat. 

You have a new responsibility Upwork! If you're going to make it easy for any graphic designer and web designer to step in front of a client, then you can **bleep**ing REGULATE it, it's your responsibility.

Yes I'm upset, No I don't care about other people rejecting my rant, and seriously, Upwork makes me feel **Edited for Community Guidelines**

Victor, you got a dog? Get a dog. I can rant at him all I want and he dosn't reply, which is perfect. He definitely dosn't reply after I've let off a bit of steam telling me how well he's doing on Upwork.

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That's nice. You won't learn much from him about how to be successful on UW, but whatever.

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Not everybody wants to learn how to be successful. Some people just want to make it clear that their failure is someone else's fault.

[victor_cuadrado]

If you're insinuating that somehow, I've designed a system that enhances cutthroat...Yikes.

I can join you good people, or I can go against. Look, you do enough for the system just by showing up. You didn't create this system so contribute towards the community, with a solution. You know why? because frustrated smart people create solutions of their own, and then, it grows into a monster that crushes all the people who ignored the poor frustrated person in the first place... loll Technology.

*submit* *cmd 1* "Welcome to AWS Vic". 

[feed_my_eyes]

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Victor V wrote:

I can join you good people, or I can go against. Look, you do enough for the system just by showing up. You didn't create this system so contribute towards the community, with a solution. You know why? because frustrated smart people create solutions of their own, and then, it grows into a monster that crushes all the people who ignored the poor frustrated person in the first place... loll Technology.

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These "good people" are contributing to the community by giving advice to anyone new who geniunely wants to learn how to be successful on Upwork. But you haven't asked for any advice; you're saying that since you haven't had success here, it means that Upwork needs to change to suit you, not the other way around. 

Take a look at some of the profiles of the people who have been responding to you and you'll see how much money they're making and what kind of clients they've been working with. So, maybe the reason that they're not offering you any "solutions" is because they don't have a problem?

[victor_cuadrado]

ayaa! 

lol. What do you think is going to happen? Upwork is going to turn the tables? Oh no, your beautiful world...  The solution will have more people in mind if there's one.

[tlsanders]

Victor, a lot of smart people who freelance have chosen freelancing in significant part because we did not want other people (often less qualified than us) gumming up the works by creating filters and standards and procedures they thought would be great but in fact slowed us down and got in the way of us doing our best work.

As such, the last thing in the world we want is for Upwork to try to "help" us. We want them to provide a lean set of benefits like an aggregation of potential clients and an easy way to invoice and get paid and then stay the heck out of the way while we do our own thing and make our own decisions.

[victor_cuadrado]

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Tiffany S wrote:

Victor, a lot of smart people who freelance have chosen freelancing in significant part because we did not want other people (often less qualified than us) gumming up the works by creating filters and standards and procedures they thought would be great but in fact slowed us down and got in the way of us doing our best work.

As such, the last thing in the world we want is for Upwork to try to "help" us. We want them to provide a lean set of benefits like an aggregation of potential clients and an easy way to invoice and get paid and then stay the heck out of the way while we do our own thing and make our own decisions.

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I love this. I believe you. 

[victor_cuadrado]

Thank you. I don't mind replies.

[versailles]

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Victor V wrote:

Thank you. I don't mind replies.

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Thank you who?

If you don't quote the post you're answering, I'll take your thanks as directed to me.

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

[jorgensen-scott]

Truth in advertising, first: I've had a generally positive experience with upwork so far, and continue to garner some decent work.  However, Viktor does have a couple of good points which should not be so glibly dismiised. The first, effectiveness of cover letters. Frankly, I think they are a bunch of fluff that do not adequately help you in the door for a job. Unless you are going for a wriitng job where the client may see an opportunity to assess your writing skills, a cover letter is basically an acknowledgement that you saw the job and want it. Anywone can BS their way through a cover letter - the proof, however, is in the pudding; your CV, your portfolio andd wrk history. All these seminars and tutorials on writing good cover letters, especially if they charge, do little more than line the pockets of the authors.

Second, this notion that Upwork is becomming another Fiverr. There is truth to this. Since coming to Upwork I have noticed a steady drop in the rates offered for jobs (especially in my field, graphic design and illustration), dropping to the level of the ridiculous like $3 for video sequences for which the client expects you to produce Speilberg type work. Here Viktor is correct in noting that Upwork has a responsibility to the freelancers as well by putting a floor on the rate offerings of a job. Five bucks a job makes Upwork and the employee next to nothing, and really isn't worth the time or talent of either. Let's up the standards here a bit.

[florydev]

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Scott J wrote:

Truth in advertising, first: I've had a generally positive experience with upwork so far, and continue to garner some decent work.  However, Viktor does have a couple of good points which should not be so glibly dismiised. The first, effectiveness of cover letters. Frankly, I think they are a bunch of fluff that do not adequately help you in the door for a job. Unless you are going for a wriitng job where the client may see an opportunity to assess your writing skills, a cover letter is basically an acknowledgement that you saw the job and want it. Anywone can BS their way through a cover letter - the proof, however, is in the pudding; your CV, your portfolio andd wrk history. All these seminars and tutorials on writing good cover letters, especially if they charge, do little more than line the pockets of the authors.

Second, this notion that Upwork is becomming another Fiverr. There is truth to this. Since coming to Upwork I have noticed a steady drop in the rates offered for jobs (especially in my field, graphic design and illustration), dropping to the level of the ridiculous like $3 for video sequences for which the client expects you to produce Speilberg type work. Here Viktor is correct in noting that Upwork has a responsibility to the freelancers as well by putting a floor on the rate offerings of a job. Five bucks a job makes Upwork and the employee next to nothing, and really isn't worth the time or talent of either. Let's up the standards here a bit.

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Not

An

Employee

If the rate is too low...propose at a higher one or don't propose at all.

[victor_cuadrado]

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Mark F wrote:

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Scott J wrote:

Truth in advertising, first: I've had a generally positive experience with upwork so far, and continue to garner some decent work.  However, Viktor does have a couple of good points which should not be so glibly dismiised. The first, effectiveness of cover letters. Frankly, I think they are a bunch of fluff that do not adequately help you in the door for a job. Unless you are going for a wriitng job where the client may see an opportunity to assess your writing skills, a cover letter is basically an acknowledgement that you saw the job and want it. Anywone can BS their way through a cover letter - the proof, however, is in the pudding; your CV, your portfolio andd wrk history. All these seminars and tutorials on writing good cover letters, especially if they charge, do little more than line the pockets of the authors.

Second, this notion that Upwork is becomming another Fiverr. There is truth to this. Since coming to Upwork I have noticed a steady drop in the rates offered for jobs (especially in my field, graphic design and illustration), dropping to the level of the ridiculous like $3 for video sequences for which the client expects you to produce Speilberg type work. Here Viktor is correct in noting that Upwork has a responsibility to the freelancers as well by putting a floor on the rate offerings of a job. Five bucks a job makes Upwork and the employee next to nothing, and really isn't worth the time or talent of either. Let's up the standards here a bit.

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Not

An

Employee

If the rate is too low...propose at a higher one or don't propose at all.

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But then this is still not solving what is mentioned.

So, then fine, I'll grab a bunch interns and create a paying firm. "Hey, kids! wanna get paid to learn, build a portfolio and be part of a new movement sweeping the creative industry?? This is YUMYODA"... add a little fashion with profits, and forget about it, I'll hit Upwork hard and fast.. Street Culture + Creative Industry. Sounds great to me...

[cartrellgeneral]

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Scott J wrote:

 The first, effectiveness of cover letters. Frankly, I think they are a bunch of fluff that do not adequately help you in the door for a job. Unless you are going for a wriitng job where the client may see an opportunity to assess your writing skills, a cover letter is basically an acknowledgement that you saw the job and want it. Anywone can BS their way through a cover letter - the proof, however, is in the pudding; your CV, your portfolio andd wrk history. All these seminars and tutorials on writing good cover letters, especially if they charge, do little more than line the pockets of the authors.

I agree with this for the most part. When I started on Upwork, I put a lot of thought into my proposals. Now that I am established, I only need to write one or two sentences and can still land the job. Clients tend to look at my Upwork and work history. That speaks for itself. I think everyone oversells the importance of the proposal. I guess it depends on one's field but in mine, most of the time, all I have to do is let the client know that I am interested. The rest of my profile sells itself.

[tlsanders]

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Scott J wrote:

 The first, effectiveness of cover letters. Frankly, I think they are a bunch of fluff that do not adequately help you in the door for a job. Unless you are going for a wriitng job where the client may see an opportunity to assess your writing skills, a cover letter is basically an acknowledgement that you saw the job and want it. Anywone can BS their way through a cover letter - the proof, however, is in the pudding; your CV, your portfolio andd wrk history. All these seminars and tutorials on writing good cover letters, especially if they charge, do little more than line the pockets of the authors.

Sounds like you either don't know how to write a good cover letter or are casting your net too broadly and don't really have a specific, effective selling point to convey.

I agree with you about the seminars and such, though--much of the conventional wisdom shared for writing cover letters is a waste to counterproductive--particularly on Upwork.

[joshuawoodsdev]

Well from my view point, Upwork does not pay off for most people on here becuase their core market are people looking honeslty for the lowest rates. It's great for people that live in the middle of nowhere or in other parts of the world. But really if you live in a major city get most if not all of your clients by going out in real life. I dislike mostly comes from the branding(green everywhere and well honestly the % that they take from my pay). Now I don't hate Upwork becuase I now know after some time on here that it's simply not for me. For everyone else on here I hope that you do well. I spend alot of time networking, sending emails, Discord and city. So that is working for me. 

[0f58d95e]

I blame those apps for creating graphics. Mostly you can access them via web to design your own. They are mostly user friendly and the templates are pretty much good and, yes they are moslty free. Thankfully animation isn't affected by these apps as far as I know, if there is, the quality ain't that pretty. I'm new on the platform as an animator, and thankfully getting a pretty nifty number of contracts. Also it could be your portfolio, remember that there's always someone better than you, or better yet, the beauty of your work depends on whos viewing it. Just hang in there and do what you do. Hoping for the best for you.