Do you guys rate your clients honestly?

varungs · ‎12-25-2019

I'm a new freelancer, and I was wondering if it's standard freelancer protocol to rate a client honestly and objectively, or just 5-star them.

For example, my last client was very sweet and articulate, but their boss was extremely pedantic and required something totally different, so I was made to do about $60 of work for $7 (in my offline freelance life, I would object, but I didn't want to screw up my rating). I submitted the work, and rated the client a 4.6 (with a 3 in expressing requirements).

However, afterward, I saw that she had given me 5 stars, and I began feeling a bit guilty about it.

Anyway, I think I went off on a tangent there. My main question is, what is your standard practice?

petra_r · ‎12-25-2019

Varun G wrote:

For example, my last client was very sweet and articulate, but their boss was extremely pedantic and required something totally different, so I was made to do about $60 of work for $7

You were not "made to" do anything. You chose to.

It means you did not nail down the scope before accepting the contract, and then did not handle the request for extra work in a professional manner. All you had to do was say "Sure, great idea, we can do XYZ as well. Let's just finish the current milestone, then you can set up an additional one for the additional work. My charge for that would be $ ......"

Or, in your case, looking at the requirements on the document and saying "Sorry, that isn't proofreading, that's rewriting, and my rate for this would be ... $ XXX."

That said, I see it was a "proofreading" job. You probably failed to look at the material before accepting the contract, which would have made it obvious whether it needs proofreading, editing or re-writing.

Also, if you accept contracts at a tiny fraction of normal industry rates, you will always work with "bottom of the barrel type of clients" and also make your profile look like you are cheap and unprofessional.

You can't advertise yourself as an expert, and then have entry level contracts at unskilled labour rates all over your history.

Varun G wrote:
Anyway, I think I went off on a tangent there. My main question is, what is your standard practice?

I tend to give 5 stars if there was nothing wrong with the way it went.

I choose my clients very carefully, so there generally isn't anything to complain about.

prestonhunter · ‎12-25-2019

The feedback a client receives is less important than the feedback a freelancer receives.

When I consider a client, I am more interested in other factors, including hire rate and the feedback that the client gives to other freelancers. Written comments from freelancers are interesting.

varungs · ‎12-25-2019

Petra, I'm curious as to why you seem to be so antagonistic right off the bat. Across several threads, actually. Anyway:

You were not "made to" do anything. You chose to.

Of course I wasn't made to do anything; nobody ever is. I'm sure you understand what I meant, though. As a new freelancer, I ran the risk of getting a bad rating and crippling my profile, so I tried my best to please the client even if it meant overworking. Between stopping or reducing my inflow of new clients and working an extra hour, I'd choose the latter every time.

It means you did not nail down the scope before accepting the contract, and then did not handle the request for extra work in a professional manner.

Interesting view. I always make an effort to be professional in all of my dealings, but it seems you somehow know more about that then me. I was given a document and was asked to proofread it, so I removed all of the syntax, grammar and spelling errors, and I restructured some of the sentences. The client was happy with the job.

Then, after it went to her boss, the boss made a bunch of comments all across the documents highlighting where things could have been written in a better way. The suggestions the boss had made on the Google document were basically completely rewritten sections that didn't retain the sentences' original meaning at all.

Here's what I sent to the client, and I quote:

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

The client then responded saying that she would double my pay if I rewrote future articles as per her specifications. That would still be too low, so I sent her, and I quote:

I**Edited for Community Guidelines**

I feel that I handled the situation the best I could, but if you think there could have been a better way, I'd (genuinely, not trying to be a Dick Van Dyke Van Dick Van Dyke Van Dyke) love to hear it.

You can't advertise yourself as an expert, and then have entry level contracts at unskilled labour rates all over your history.

If I made my account two weeks ago, I think I absolutely can. I've seen that real-world credentials mean very little compared to a solid Upwork track record, so obviously, even experts who are new to Upwork need to start somewhere. They're not going to be getting $90/hr jobs out of the gate without a single good review. Just not how it works.

Thanks for the reply, anyway. I learnt something.

petra_r · ‎12-25-2019

Varun G wrote:
You can't advertise yourself as an expert, and then have entry level contracts at unskilled labour rates all over your history.

If I made my account two weeks ago, I think I absolutely can.

If you say so. You're fresh out of High School so yes, I see that you have to start somewhere, with no portfolio or professional history, but starting with the cheapest of the cheap clients tends to lead to unsuccessful outcomes and a low JSS and an uphill struggle.

Varun G wrote:
They're not going to be getting $90/hr jobs out of the gate without a single good review. Just not how it works.

Nobody said anything about $ 90 an hour. There is a difference between asking for $ 90 an hour and declining to work for Cents per hour.

The most important thing you will learn is that the cheapest clients are the most difficult to please and the ones who are as stingy with feedback as they are with payment for your services.

But of course it's your profile, so obviously you are free to do as you please with it.

Bear in mind though that future clients look at your history, so it can take time to crawl out of the "cheap" category when your history is full of such jobs.

varungs · ‎12-25-2019

The most important thing you will learn is that the cheapest clients are the most difficult to please and the ones who are as stingy with feedback as they are with payment for your services.

Yeah, I can't agree more. The jobs I'm working on that are from $50 to $250 are by far the easiest, and the clients don't try to micromanage me. They also seem to be far more grateful towards the work I provide. It's visible even as a newbie.

Bear in mind though that future clients look at your history, so it can take time to crawl out of the "cheap" category when your history is full of such jobs.

Thank you, I'll keep that in mind. For my first few jobs, I've been a little flexible with my rates, but I think it's time I create a pay standard for myself and stick to it. I appreciate the advice.

tlsanders · ‎12-25-2019

Varun G wrote:

If I made my account two weeks ago, I think I absolutely can. I've seen that real-world credentials mean very little compared to a solid Upwork track record, so obviously, even experts who are new to Upwork need to start somewhere. They're not going to be getting $90/hr jobs out of the gate without a single good review. Just not how it works.

It's always interesting when brand new Upworkers come in and declare that this or that just "isn't how it works" to people who have made hundreds of thousands of dollars on Upwork. Stop and think about that for a minute: who is likely to have a better idea "how it works" here?

tlbp · ‎12-25-2019

I think most freelancers are reluctant to give less than 5-stars to any clients they hope to work with again. There ways to phrase your comments to inform other freelancers of potential problems. For example, just subtly letting other freelancers know that more than one person reviewed the work before approval says a lot. Review by committee is always a bit of a hassle.

luce-neidert · ‎12-25-2019

I agree with Tonya, unless you really don't care about working with that client again, it's best not to be too honest. For instance, many clients are almost rude, never bother to greet you, disappear without explanation, but you'll still pretend that they are good communicators, which they're not.

Only when a client does something really annoying do I bother to give less than a 5 star and to give private feedback.

I'm having fun noticing this French company that apparently has annoyed quite a few freelancers. They seem to be having a hard time hiring, which makes sense as they have some TERRIBLE reviews. That will teach them. Being horrible to the freelancers you hire is not a good policy.

Just like Petra, I give 5 stars meaning that basically, everything went OK.

petra_r · ‎12-25-2019

Luce N wrote:
For instance, many clients are almost rude, never bother to greet you, disappear without explanation, but you'll still pretend that they are good communicators, which they're not.

Interesting you should say that, on the 2-3 (?) occasions I have knocked stars off it was for communication...

luce-neidert · ‎12-25-2019

Petra R wrote:
Luce N wrote:
For instance, many clients are almost rude, never bother to greet you, disappear without explanation, but you'll still pretend that they are good communicators, which they're not.
Interesting you should say that, on the 2-3 (?) occasions I have knocked stars off it was for communication...

A few months ago, I really wished I had. It was about a client I have already done a few jobs before. He travels a lot and once in a while he gets very hard to reach. Well, on one of the last jobs, he gave me a 4 for communication! I couldn't believe it. Anyway, his feeback was very sweet, so I have forgiven him.

kbadeau · ‎12-25-2019

Clients are still going to find freelancers no matter what we say, so I tend to agree that giving low ratings or reviews is not going to hurt them, but it can hurt us. If you see a certain freelancer always giving bad reviews to clients, I think it says more about the freelancer than it does the client.

The worst is when a freelancer responds poorly *on their profile* to a less than stellar review that was left.

I'd be more apt to leave no feedback than to leave bad feedback.

petra_r · ‎12-25-2019

Kelly B wrote:
If you see a certain freelancer always giving bad reviews to clients, I think it says more about the freelancer than it does the client.

Too true.

Kelly B wrote:
The worst is when a freelancer responds poorly *on their profile* to a less than stellar review that was left.

YES!! 99 times out of 100 it does so much more harm than good, especially considering that those rants don't show on the client's profile at all.

lysis10 · ‎12-25-2019

I only give feedback when there is a dispute but that's because you can't dispute without closing the contract. Normally, I don't give feedback unless I'm closing the contract from it being old and apparently dead. Then I always give 5 stars as long as they paid me.

yitwail · ‎12-25-2019

Jennifer M wrote:
I only give feedback when there is a dispute but that's because you can't dispute without closing the contract. Normally, I don't give feedback unless I'm closing the contract from it being old and apparently dead. Then I always give 5 stars as long as they paid me.

I honestly never thought of withholding feedback until now. I don't mind leaving feedback, it's the verbal comment I struggle with and I usually say something generic like "professional clent" or "good communication". If they gave me a bonus I usually say "generous client".

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce

a_lipsey · ‎12-25-2019

I only once left bad feedback and that's because getting paid was like pulling teeth. The client was trying to scam me and it was obvious. So I knocked off a couple of stars in the appropriate places. Otherwise, as long as I got paid, and it wasnt a total trainwreck, i give 5 stars.

tlsanders · ‎12-25-2019

I don't know what standard practice is, but I certainly wouldn't leave a fake rating that would mislead other freelancers into working with a difficult client.