billsotnikow
Member

Doing a proposal just to tell someone **Edited**

Any way that this could hurt me besides the lost connects? Hard to resist the urge sometimes. And legitimately, its not just spite, these people waste all of our time. Pressuring them to leave would help our feeds. Case in point. "Client" wants NDA, 5 long professional videos per week for $5 a piece. Calls it "easy job for the right person". 

**Edited for community guidelines**

18 REPLIES 18
yitwail
Member


William S wrote:

Any way that this could hurt me besides the lost connects? Hard to resist the urge sometimes. And legitimately, its not just spite, these people waste all of our time. Pressuring them to leave would help our feeds. Case in point. "Client" wants NDA, 5 long professional videos per week for $5 a piece. Calls it "easy job for the right person". 

 

**Edited for community guidelines**


William, the client might report you for abusive language and you might get suspended. Other than that, can't think of a downside. Regardless, Upwork TOS doesn't prohibit client idiocy as far as I know. 

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce

This is a good point, and i shouldn't have said that. I'm far to polite to phrase it that way, but still wanted to let them know they are completly unreasonable.

We understand your concern, William. 

 

One area we are looking at closely is helping freelancers better evaluate a job post and client so they can decide whether it is worth using Connects to submit a proposal. We encourage freelancers to bid with the amount they consider appropriate for the job and discuss the terms directly with the client during the interview. 

 

If you see a job that is suspicious or inappropriate, please click "Flag as inappropriate" in the job post so we can review it.

 

Thank you!

~ Bojan
Upwork

Hi Bojan,

Thank you for the reply, but that doesn't really address what i was saying. I'm quite certain the post is not worth applying to, unless of course client might be convinced to offer something better than what they've said in the post- which is ridiculous.

2 suggestions that would help me as a freelancer filter my feed better.

1) An easy way for freelancer to rate a posting. If its as easy for me to close the tab as it is to hit a button that give the post a bad rating, i would do so. And other seeing the job would then get a quick rating from other freelancers and could avoid wasting time reading the ones that are unreasonable and get low ratings.

2)A block function. Sometimes i see clients post the same unreasonable jobs several times. If i see this, it would be nice to block all posting from that client, at least temporarily. Waste of time to read the same thing, from the same unreasonable person 5-6 times worded slightly differently.

 

And job was not flag worthy, not breaking any rules, just not a job anyone would ever want to take as written. Again, maybe through negotiation client might realize how what they are posting is crazy, but i think most freelancers dont bother trying to do that with a person who is out of touch with reality to begin with.


William S wrote:

And job was not flag worthy, not breaking any rules, just not a job anyone would ever want to take as written. 


If nobody wants to take the job, then nobody will bid on it. It's not up to you to make that decision on behalf of other freelancers. 

How did you get that from what i said? Rather rude reply. I have no desire to have power to close someone's posting. I said it'd be helpful to rate it for other freelancers, then, yes of course they can make thier own decisions.


William S wrote:

I said it'd be helpful to rate it for other freelancers, then, yes of course they can make thier own decisions.


You're continuing to miss the point. Your own hourly rate is $50. That's obviously fine for you, but it's too low a rate to cover the cost of living in my city. So should I go through the jobs feed and flag all $50/hour projects as "not worth bidding on"? Better yet, should I submit proposals to these jobs just to be rude to clients and pressure them to leave, as you suggest in your original post? How would that be helpful to you?

 

Look, I'm not exactly thrilled by all of the $5 jobs here either, but Upwork has decided that that's the minimum allowable. You can't really blame the clients for taking advantage, if Upwork says that it's okay and people are willing to work for those rates.

Hi Christine. Thank you, I do understand your point, I'm not missing it. There are instances where the client is not looking for someone working in a low cost of living city (indicated by region they want, or type of work they require, native language etc...), and are still looking for a $5 gig. And there are posts that would be unreasonable wherever you live even if your cost of living is low or you are trying to build your new profile etc...

I just think it would be useful if we could let these people know, and/or, let other freelancers know when we come accross one that is unreasonable. Unreasonable in an expensive region vs unreasonable elsewhere is a valid point, but there would be ways to address/account for that as well.


William S wrote:

I just think it would be useful if we could let these people know, and/or, let other freelancers know when we come accross one that is unreasonable. Unreasonable in an expensive region vs unreasonable elsewhere is a valid point, but there would be ways to address/account for that as well.


If there was a way to address that, then I'd be fully supportive, but I gave up long ago. I once saw a job here that was advertised by a Toronto company, looking for Toronto-based freelancers, for $3/hour. They had received bids - not many, but enough. So what can be done? I used to get outraged by these posts (especially THAT one, since they were calling it a "freelance job" even though they admitted that they were looking for a full-time employee, at a rate that was way below the Ontario minimum wage; I wish that I could have found out the name of the company and reported them to the Labour Board), but now I set my filters so that I don't even see any jobs below $100. 


William S wrote:

And job was not flag worthy, not breaking any rules, just not a job anyone would ever want to take as written. Again, maybe through negotiation client might realize how what they are posting is crazy, but i think most freelancers dont bother trying to do that with a person who is out of touch with reality to begin with.


______________________________________


I can empathize. I have just had an invitation that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with my skillset. The client has sent out 220 invitations (lathough it is certainly not flagworthy) as the client has already spent a hefty amount on Upwork, so I guess it is worth her while to randomly invite.

 

I had to sit on my hands - although I did suggest the client hire a professional recruiting agent. 

joansands
Member

William - There are obviously a lot of jobs that you would not want - but there are a lot of people in other parts of the world who are very willing to work for a small amount of money. And, from what I have read, Upwork makes more money from those people than from the rest of us.

Thanks Joan, this is a great point. Cost of living isn't the same everywhere. There are times however the person is implying, or outright clear that they aren't looking for that. "Native English Speaker", "Freelancer from USA" etc...

William - There is no question in my mind that there are a lot of would-be clients who just want to pay very little for something. Some people just are cheap and they also read online about how they can get work done cheaply on Upwork. There are also other sites that have a lot of cheap work. Net, net - if a client posts a job on Upwork and is willing to pay very little for it, and then doesn't get responses from anyone willing to do the work, that is the best result for them and maybe they will learn something from that. Unfortunately, though, I have found - at least in my niche - that there are people willing to work for very little. Especially in this pandemic time. The old adage is still true that you get what you pay for.

tta192
Member

Do not do this during periods when you're having no active contracts and/or no earnings (not sure if fixed price contracts count as active until a payment is released to you).

 

Some clients will report you for bad language and you may get a warning, but probably not; Upwork made easy money when you spent your connects. Cheap clients are mostly a net loss due to the high costs they generate(support, disputes, refunds, etc...). I'd say you have the upper hand here, but there actually can be a downside, regardless of whether the client complains or not:

 

If your recent stats show a disproportionate number of submitted proposals without being hired Upwork may take action against you up to suspending or removing your account. What you describe will just make it worse, but if you're in good standing - no problem really. 

 

Oh really, interesting thank you. I did not realize they kept track of that at all. I figured since you pay for your connects, they'd have no issue with how many of them you spend. In all honesty, i'd never do this, was just venting.

a_lipsey
Member


William S wrote:

Any way that this could hurt me besides the lost connects? Hard to resist the urge sometimes. And legitimately, its not just spite, these people waste all of our time. Pressuring them to leave would help our feeds. Case in point. "Client" wants NDA, 5 long professional videos per week for $5 a piece. Calls it "easy job for the right person". 

**Edited for community guidelines**


While I've never used connects to do this, I have once or twice used invites to respond and explain (firmly but politely) that the client's expectations were unreasonable (or even illegal), and this has actually ended in the client adjusting their job description (and usually asking me if I would consider doing the work). So, while I'm not suggesting being sarcastic or rude, sometimes applying and explaining to the client how their project is being set up to fail can result in a job offer....it shows evidence of your competence. 

 

On the other hand, some clients are just being cheapskates. LOL. 

Thank you, yes great comment. I've actually done the same thing on invites as well, although usually i would just click the automated boxes that give them a little heads up "budget too low", "unrealistic expectations" etc...