🤔 Don't you hate closing contracts quickly after a project is done?

[#1]

I am wondering if other freelancers feel as I do in regards to Upwork strong push to quickly close contracts after a project is done.

I am a top-rated freelancer with hundreds of feedbacks and (up to 2 weeks ago) 100% JSS and was demoted lately to 96% due to some contracts that have been sitting idle for quite some time. 

Regardless of how the project ends, sometimes it is actually very comfortable to leave a project idle for a few months to let the client have an option to add a milestone if any issue comes up. More than that, "demanding" or even "suggesting firmly" a quick closure of the contract at the moment the project reached its final milestone honestly feel a bit strange, and even after a few months, it sometimes feels like "I want to cut the cord" with the client just to stay with Upwork policy of closing contracts as soon as possible or my JSS will turn ugly pretty quickly.

I mean, there are so many reasons why its good that a contract is sitting idle, and none of them has anything to do with lowering your JSS score as far as I can see it.

1.  A client "got what they want" and don't really care anymore about closing a contract

2. A project ended but the client is now "feel secure" when the contract is not closed and at any time they can go back to the chat and get new things done or fixed

3. An idle contract is also an opportunity for a new milestone at a certain time in the future as not all projects really NEED TO END, and some projects have a very good chance to get a new milestone 6 months along the road when certain elements in the project need renewals or update.

4. Pushing a client to close a contract before they feel comfortable to do it, feels like you just want to move away from the relationship you forged with them rather than evolve this business relationship further. A much more comfortable way to close a contract at the end of a project is when the time comes for a new contract, AT THAT TIME, ask the client to close the old project and start a new contract. This is the best timing to do it naturally and comfortably in many cases.

I can go on and on with more and more subtle but as important reasons why a contract needs to stay alive after a project is done in some cases, but I will stop here. Please remember, I am not saying that ALL CONTRACTS needs to stay alive after it is done, in many cases, the contracts ends perfectly with the client EXCITED to close it and give 5-star feedback (and get one back) - but for those special projects that are sitting idle for one of the many reasons they are, it should not pull a top-rated Upwork freelancer JSS down and DEMOTE the freelancer pretty much - all for the sake of trying to keep a client happy and a business relationship healthy.

Yes, it is a tricky thing with this issue, but unless there is a REAL REASON why Upwork is pushing so hard for us to close contracts quickly, I do not understand why it has to even be part of the JSS and it should be left out of it and allow us to manage it with the clients properly and gently without any "rush to closing" attitude.

Sorry about the long rant, but I had to take it out of my chest.

What do you think?

[#2]

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Jennifer R wrote:
Actually, the JSS page seems to change a lot lately. But it does not really tell you if an idle contract is good or bad for your JSS.

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exactly. in other words, idle contracts are going to weight down on the JSS... what a disappointment and headache to deal with. the client needs to be panelized for it, not us.

[#3]

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Hidemi T wrote:

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...exactly. in other words, idle contracts are going to weight down on the JSS... 

... as are contracts that end without feedback, provided money was ever paid.  -- that is one of the definitions of idle contract.. it will affect your JSS.

No and No.

"Idle contracts" are open contracts with no work done for a long time

"contracts that end without feedback arec ontracts that, urm, ENDED without feedback from the client. Closed contracts.

Neither hurt your JSS

But it seems you desperately want to cling on to the belief that it's idle contracts or contracts without feedback that affected your JSS, rather than entertain the possibility that occasionally a client wasn't 100% happy.

[#4]

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Hidemi T wrote:
Maria, I posted this question and heard you and Petra. Thank you so much for your help and knowledge- it’s invaluable

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I realise that this was intended to be sarcastic, but people have indeed tried to explain the situation to you. Petra asked you a question, which you still haven't answered - is your "clients who would recommend me score" still 95%? If not, then that would explain why your JSS has declined. 

And again, this is a public forum - you may not want to hear from anyone who disagrees with you, but when somebody is spreading incorrect information, others will try to correct them for the benefit of anybody else who may be reading. You've already seen another poster in this thread who has 18 open contracts and 100% JSS, so why do you think that is?

[#5]

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Hidemi T wrote:

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Petra R wrote:

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Hidemi T wrote:

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exactly. in other words, idle contracts are going to weight down on the JSS... 

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No.

But it seems you desperately want to cling on to the belief that it's idle contracts or contracts without feedback that affected your JSS, rather than entertain the possibility that occasionally a client wasn't 100% happy.

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**Edited for Community Guidelines**

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OK, since you've invited additional input, I'll offer some. I have had 100% JSS since sometime in 2017. During that time, I have had several (up to half a dozen or more, out of a total fewer than 50 contracts) sit idle for months and even years after the work was completed. This happened for various reasons. Some were small, one-off projects and the clients disappeared before I got around to reminding them about closing the contracts. Some were repeat clients who hate dealing w/ the UW platform and tend to leave a contract open until they are ready to start a new project with a fresh contract at which point I remind them (and sometimes they close the old one and sometimes they don't). I have to assume that open, idle contracts do NOT have an immediate and discernible negative impact on JSS unless you accumulate a large proportion of them relative to your total base.

If I ran my business per advice and recommendations coming out of Upwork CSS, I'd have been broke and hungry long ago. The reps do the best they can but they do not have the depth or breadth of understanding about how the JSS actually works, that you will find among veteran FLs here in the forum. And of everyone here, Petra has the most experience and the most useful insights of anyone.

Any time your JSS changes, check your 'clients who would recommend you' percentage first. It updates on a different cycle than the JSS number. Also, check to see if projects have aged out of the 24-month window. That can nudge your JSS up or down, depending on what else happened in that update cycle.

You can take or leave my comments, as you please. Just know that taking potshots at the messengers when you don't like the message only reflects on you.

[#6]

I posted this question because after checking all my data and consulting with Upwork support who are usually very knowledgeable and in the many years I am on the platform always have me accurate and informative information- And nothing was suggesting the usual suspect of low JSS such as client who recommended you (it actually went up a notch), I did not get anything but 5 stars feedbacks - and as far as I know, I would be surprised if a client has left me negative private feedback.

The only thing that seems to be “out of order” is those idle projects which as you mentioned has so many reasons for and none of them are negative, just part of the process - which really surprised me when the support person which I quoted earlier but it was removed by a moderator - that said that this is probably the issue and I should focus on trying to close those “idles” and that will get my score back up.

I also remembered that the JSS is now weigh heavier on higher dollar price contracts and some of the idle contracts were carrying a higher dollar price indeed so I was trying to figure out if the combination of the high price contract and idle contract might be so impactful that it can drop your JSS from 100 to 96 over night. It just felt a bit too harsh.

And last, to your comment about me taking potshots at the messenger - cool analogy but nothing to do with what was going on here, I can take any comment as long as it is intelligent and cool. And yes, I will define what’s cool by my own standards and no one else’s and if I feel that princess Petra is not cool, I will ask her to take it elsewhere - politely.

[#7]

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Hidemi T wrote:
I posted this question because after checking all my data 

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So you DID check your "clients who would recommend" rating (today?) and it's still 95%? Because your star feedback doesn't count for much; it's the private feedback that causes your JSS to decline.

The person that you talked to at support was probably trying suggest that if you closed some idle contracts (thereby forcing the clients to leave feedback), that could raise your JSS score - but only because you would then (presumably) have more good feedback to counteract any negative private reviews, not because the idle contracts were hurting you. And you said that when you did do that, your score went up by 1%; so again, this because you got positive feedback reviews, not because you closed the contracts. Did the CS rep actually say the words, "Leaving contracts idle will cause your JSS to decline"?

[#8]

Yes, I did check and as I said it actually up by one percent but tell me something- let’s say that a client give you 5 stars feedback but privately give you negative feedback - and since the drop was from 100 to 96 - I had only one client closing a contract on that 2 weeks period - although it is truly hard for me to conceive that such a satisfied client will have any reason to do that - do you think it has such weight that one client feedback would affect your JSS so drastically? (It wasn’t even a high dollar price project, just a couple of hundred dollars + surprising 40% extra bonus at the end)

[#9]

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Hidemi T wrote:
Yes, I did check and as I said it actually up by one percent but tell me something- let’s say that a client give you 5 stars feedback but privately give you negative feedback - and since the drop was from 100 to 96 - I had only one client closing a contract on that 2 weeks period - although it is truly hard for me to conceive that such a satisfied client will have any reason to do that - do you think it has such weight that one client feedback would affect your JSS so drastically? (It wasn’t even a high dollar price project, just a couple of hundred dollars + surprising 40% extra bonus at the end)

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The "clients who would recommend" score doesn't update at the same rate as the JSS rate - this is precisely to make it difficult for you to know exactly which client may have left you bad private feedback (that's to keep it "private"). So it probably wasn't the client who gave you a bonus. But yes, one bad private feedback review is enough to sink you by a few percentage points; I went from 100% to 97% a few months ago from the effect of one bad review. If you think you know which client it was, you might be able to use your feedback removal "perk" to have the effect of that contract removed.

[#10]

Wow, I had no idea how much weight one client has on the JSS with the private feedback. It also make total sense to not sync the JSS and client feedbacks effect - maybe a delay of a certain unspecified or random period will prevent a freelancer from knowing who gave them the negative back end feedback - but yes, I actually can think of one, maybe the only one I had somehow strange ending to a project in the past year or two- and although I got 5 stars feedback - I had a feeling this type of a person might feedback differently privately. When you have a long time client, you get to know them and that was one of the main reasons I wanted to end that contract. It’s probably one of the only contract I thought was not healthy due to the client type which I found out only after getting involved in work.

Your suggestion to use my privilege to remove a feedback is excellent idea. If I go with that and the JSS will go back to 100 - it will indeed be a bullseye on what happened overnight two weeks ago.

Thank you, Christine. I will give it a go.

[#11]

To your question Christine (Did the CS rep actually say the words, "Leaving contracts idle will cause your JSS to decline"?)

Yes they did, and I tried to copy/paste it here in reply to Petra remarks that it has no effect on the JSS but it was removed by moderator or a bot-moderations

Regardless, the support person explicitly said it does effect the JSS negatively - and that’s the whole reason why I started this thread, to understand how heavy it affects others.

[#12 · Accepted solution]

Hi All,

A few posts have been removed from this thread as they were in violation of the Community Guidelines. Please, refrain from making personal attacks when posting in this Community even when you disagree with another person's opinion or experience.

I'd also like to confirm that open contracts without recent payments do become included in the calculation. However, it's only one of the many factors that go into the calculation. The Why did my Job Success Score change? section of this help article lists other potential reasons.

[#13]

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Valeria K wrote:

I'd also like to confirm that open contracts without recent payments do become included in the calculation. However, it's only one of the many factors that go into the calculation.  

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Thank you for your reply Valeria. 

My understanding was correct after the discussion with support was as I was told that  "open jobs without consistent earnings (idle jobs)" are affecting the JSS. 

I got attacked by some of the "Gurus" here for stating the information I received from support that idle contracts do affect the JSS - and now when you confirmed it as well - ("..open contracts without recent payments do become included in the calculation" ) make me wonder how much weight does it have on the JSS - as it is just a part of the whole algorithm but can it be that heavy that it will drop overnight a 100% JSS to 96% if the idle contract has a high dollar value?

or maybe I can rephrase it better - do you think the combination of the newly revised high dollar value contracts weight on the JSS calculations parameters in combination with the fact that idle contracts are affecting the JSS - can give such idle contract heavy pull on the JSS? 
 

[#14]

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Hidemi T wrote: do you think the combination of the newly revised high dollar value contracts weight on the JSS calculations parameters in combination with the fact that idle contracts are affecting the JSS - can give such idle contract heavy pull on the JSS?  

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Hidemi,

We won't be able to share such details about the way a specific contract affects the score. We need to maintain some privacy with this metric to ensure fairness and accuracy.

[#15]

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Valeria K wrote:

[…] I'd also like to confirm that open contracts without recent payments do become included in the calculation. […]

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I guess the next question would be: how does Upwork define 'recent'? One of my jobs has had its last payment in January 2018, and I'm at 100% for several weeks now.

[#16]

"suggesting firmly" a quick closure of the contract at the moment the project reached its final milestone honestly feel a bit strange,

We can bypass "firmly" -- "structured" is the correct concept.

Have an end of project check call -- which should be done anyway -- this is the right time to remind the client our JSS is our most important asset and ask if they would take a moment after the call to shut the project down and issue a rating.  Do not suggest to make it "good" or whatever.  Just work the process.  Put them in an immediate position with their attention engaged to take care of their responsibilities as a good client.

Suggestions otherwise -- this never mention JSS or use a structured technique to close a project down -- contradict the approaches professional consulting firms including KPMG.  Ernst, Price, Deloitte, Accenture, CapG and every other large-scale, uber-professional consulting organization. That's about 1 million consultant worth of horsepower and knowledge.

[#17]

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John B wrote:

Have an end of project check call -- which should be done anyway -- this is the right time to remind the client our JSS is our most important asset and ask if they would take a moment after the call to shut the project down and issue a rating.  Do not suggest to make it "good" or whatever.  Just work the process.  Put them in an immediate position with their attention engaged to take care of their responsibilities as a good client.

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This is the exact approach I am taking since I realized the JSS attention to and weight the closure of the contract has on it.  I even take it a step forward, following the "structured"  method by starting to approach the client in regards to the closure of the project slightly earlier and reminding the clients that we are reaching the end of the project soon, and what are those last steps of the project are, including all the deliveries I need to complete and there, in between the lines, I am adding the client healthy responsibility to take care of the process on their end with the project closure without mentioning any feedbacks - since we know that once they initiate the close, the feedback will be part of it.   I then let the project move smoothly toward its natural end, as long as it takes - and then at the stage where it is now the time to actually end the project, I am reminding the client of the closure process again. Since the client was already prepped for that stage slightly earlier, it seems to work very well and the contract is closed without any negative feeling of "cutting the cord" but with a feeling of both of us following a mututal responsibility process which Upwork "require us" to follow.

Again, as I mentioned in the post title, I hate to do it in so many cases as I do see some potential to further have milestones added down the road, but since the weight it has on the JSS, it is now meaningless to keep a contract alive any longer as those potential milestones might not come down the road and the contract will turn into a hard to close one and a low JSS score.  

[#18]

I prefer to have jobs closed as soon as they are done, otherwise they tend to accumulate real fast as work in progress, and if that number gets too high, a client might think you are too busy. 

[#19]

I always ask a client to close the project. It feels good to get 5 stars. Also I encourage them to send me an invitation for the next job. Reciving one feels goot too.

[#20]

Hello, I am too much hater to closing contract asap, But what do you think if client are not responding over a year? As this situation with me last month. 

I have an opened 3 contracts for one year ago some was 2 year, But Unfortunatley last 2-3 months my account was stuck to sign in problems due to forget password or security question, So i contacted to upwork costumer support, They replied on email that I could need to end the pending or open contracts to enable change the password and securty answer... I did'nt knew about that what will happen after i doing this.. So rather safe my account i ended the contracts which is 2 years ago are open and clients are not responging"... So It harsh feeling to me what i've done! and what i was make efffors for my JSS. Its now cutting down half of way..

I am still effort to make it as up as i can!! But still finding a way how to do ? please give any suggestions if any, much appreciated!
 
Thanks  

[#21]

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Arsalan A wrote:

Hello, I am too much hater to closing contract asap, But what do you think if client are not responding over a year? As this situation with me last month. 

I have an opened 3 contracts for one year ago some was 2 year, But Unfortunatley last 2-3 months my account was stuck to sign in problems due to forget password or security question, So i contacted to upwork costumer support, They replied on email that I could need to end the pending or open contracts to enable change the password and securty answer... I did'nt knew about that what will happen after i doing this.. So rather safe my account i ended the contracts which is 2 years ago are open and clients are not responging"... So It harsh feeling to me what i've done! and what i was make efffors for my JSS. Its now cutting down half of way..

I am still effort to make it as up as i can!! But still finding a way how to do ? please give any suggestions if any, much appreciated!
 
Thanks  

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I hope someone appears, to give you good advice.
For my part, I will give you one. You should delete the Vimeo link in your presentation. It's againt TOS
I hope you will recover JSS. Now there is a lot of competition.
Best of luck.

[#22]

Thank you so much for adiivce! I really appreciated..
But Its been a year ago i have it in my profile..
But I did'nt kniow and did'nt tell me anyone tho..
Thanks