Dropping JSS, "The repeated scenario"

Yes, I know it's repeated scenario and asked many times before, but it's really mysterious.
Before last update my JSS was 92%, then it's dropped to 89%. In my profile, all jobs completed with 5 stars and good reviews, I know that the private feedback affects on the JSS too, but i'm wondering why the client may give me 5 stars in public then give me 7 or 8 in private? I think there should be a mechanism to control this to be balanced.
Mechanism acts like the one in this topic:

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/115006097327-Why-Did-My-Job-Success-Score-Change-?flash...

feedback.JPG


Actually, I can't find any reason for dropping my JSS by 3%, But There is one client ended the contract as Other although the job completed successfully, So do you think this is the cause of dropping the JSS?

27 REPLIES 27
lysis10
Member

Who knows with people. Your profile is good so I can understand why you're frestrated. People are weird. 

Thank you Jennifer for the encouragement.

 

So that I don't want to lose my reputation because of those weird people, I do what they ask exactly, So why they pretend as they are satisfied in the public, meanwhile they hurt my profile in the private feedbacks??


@Mohamed K wrote:

Thank you Jennifer for the encouragement.

 

So that I don't want to lose my reputation because of those weird people, I do what they ask exactly, So why they pretend as they are satisfied in the public, meanwhile they hurt my profile in the private feedbacks??


 

People act differently when doing something in public and doing the same thing anonymously. They try to be overly polite when they know it will be read by everyone and that their name will be attached to it. But in private, they can say what they really mean and know that no one publicly will be able to read it.

 

 


@Kathy T wrote:

People act differently when doing something in public and doing the same thing anonymously.


 And do you think this is what it should be? at least this should be not allowed on this platform, because it hurts our reputation as you see in my case.

Generally, people should do what they want to do both in public and private, don't contradict themselves to appear in a decent way. I said you are excellent in public, this means you are excellent in private too, not even just good.

Quote: "Generally, people should do what they want to do both in public and private, don't contradict themselves to appear in a decent way." 

 

Well, if you would like consistency, Upwork could change all of the public scores to match the presumably more-candid private scores. That would eliminate any "contradictions."

Hi Janean,

 

That's why I said there should be a mechanism which controls this matter. At least if I get 4 stars in public, I will expect that I got maybe 7 or 8 in private feedback. And this is will be fair enough to find out the mistake I did. But in this case I don't know what's wrong and what is the cause of dropping my JSS.


@Mohamed K wrote:

Hi Janean,

 

That's why I said there should be a mechanism which controls this matter.

 

Private feedback IS the mechanism by which Upwork controls a pervasive problem--falsely inflated public feedback that gives clients considering a freelancer misleading information.

 

At least if I get 4 stars in public, I will expect that I got maybe 7 or 8 in private feedback. And this is will be fair enough to find out the mistake I did. But in this case I don't know what's wrong and what is the cause of dropping my JSS.

 

The purpose of JSS isn't to give you feedback that will help you fine-tune your performance. It is to give clients an accurate idea of the performance they can expect from you based on your past contracts. 


 


@Tiffany S wrote:

The purpose of JSS isn't to give you feedback that will help you fine-tune your performance. It is to give clients an accurate idea of the performance they can expect from you based on your past contracts. 


And what if this idea will based on unfair JSS? You know what, I wouldn't never open this topic if I had some bad reviews, because then I will know the cause of dropped JSS.

But in my case, my last 11 jobs ended with 5 stars and completed successfully, execpt the one which ended as "Other". Also I have read many topics which taking about what affects on JSS, and I think I didn't do anything of it.

So the ptobelm will be only in the private feedbacks which made the profile lose 11% of JSS?

 

@ Eve

 

Some clients may not care about JSS, and some others (I think the vast majority ot them) will care about it, otherwise there was no Preferred Qualifications to every job.


@Janean L wrote:

Quote: "Generally, people should do what they want to do both in public and private, don't contradict themselves to appear in a decent way." 

 

Well, if you would like consistency, Upwork could change all of the public scores to match the presumably more-candid private scores. That would eliminate any "contradictions."


 I don't get this either. If a client has rated you worse in private than in public, then you can assume it is the private feedback that is the "truth". These same freelancers who complain about private feedback would also be the ones abusing and harrassing clients if the feedback was public, and responding to feedback they perceived as "unfair" with lengthy diatribes that do nothing to help make their profile look attractive to potential future clients...

 

Like Petra said, discussing feedback with clients in *any* scenario is unprofessional. I would never work again with a freelancer who asked me for positive feedback or questioned my feedback given.

I understand your issue with private reviews. I have the same issue with why my JSS went from 100% to 95%--I was bending myself over backward for this client and she never told me anything was wrong. But if any client was honest, in all likelihood, it would just lead to an argument on the review. A good freelancer would have done the best they could and state that in a reply to the review. A bad freelancer would argue. Either way, the client isn't going to change their mind. So, it's easier to just separate the two. 

 

The one big drawback is that I won't work with clients that give a lot of freelancers bad reviews, so if they're doing that a lot in private reviews, it does become a problem. 

paperdog
Member

DOnt worry tooooo much about JSS.  From what I have been hearing, ITs only useful if you plan on living solely off of this platform for the rest of your career.   Some people can do that... and thats fine.  Me, I am doing this as a side... and I am reltively new at Upwork..      I always say, do your best and and let the universe take care of the rest.  

Grant, that doesn't make any sense at all.

 

Of course, no one should rely solely on one platform for his/her whole livelihood.

 

But, why on earth would a prospective client care less about your JSS if you were only taking on the occasional project than if you were working full-time through Upwork? The client doesn't care how you make your living--the client cares about how you'll perform on his job.

e_luneborg
Member

Just do as good a job as you can for every client, and let the JSS become what it will. I don't care about mine anymore. Can't really do anything about it anyway.

 

At the lowest I had 86% or something I think, and I didn't have any trouble getting new jobs. When I've hired freelancers myself I haven't even thought about their JSS. I just look at the feedback they have. 

________________________
Freelancing is a gamble - To win you need skill, luck and a strategy
tlbp
Member

What are the numbers for "would recommend" and "Long-term" clients on your stats page? I suspect that you receive a base score that can then be enhanced by a limited number of points based on your Long-term client number. 

[8734f78c2ceb3488e52c5a4c466598c0]_Image%202017-10-16%20at%205.26.32%20PM.png

Hi Tonya,

 

Long-term clients is still 0% although I have completed 5 jobs with the same client. But actually Project Type was One-time project on this job, so I think that it's not considered as long-term job.

 

Screenshot of the job description:

one time.JPG

 

And screenshot of my state:

 

my state.JPG

 

I think there is one or two clients who not recommend me, But really I don't know why they gave me 5 stars and in the same time they not recommend me!! That's what I'm talking about.


@Mohamed K wrote:

I think there is one or two clients who not recommend me, But really I don't know why they gave me 5 stars and in the same time they not recommend me!! That's what I'm talking about.


 Because clients become sick and tired of being harassed, bothered, begged, threatened and haunted by freelancers after NOT giving 5 star feedback, which is part of the reason why we have a JSS in the first place.

 

Such clients are more honest about how they think something went in private feedback than in public feedback.


As long as they are honest somewhere that's fine, or everyone would have a 100%  JSS and this metric, too, would become completely meaningless in the same way the star rating has become completely meaningless!!

You can get credit for long-term clients from several one-time projects as well as ongoing projects. It just has to be steady across three months or more.

Great, yesterday when I sent my state image above, the score of clients who would recommend me was
88%, now when I wake up it changed to 82% (changed in the past 12 hours, I thought it's updated
every 2 weeks). So why this score changed within the past 12 hours? (After the update it was still 88%).

 

I ended a contract yesterday and the client said that he gave me 10 in private, but actually he is not sure and he want to double check it, so is there anyway that the client can check it? (Maybe this is the cause of score change).

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

Discussing private feedback with clients is breathtakingly inappropriate and unprofessional, and the last Update of the JSS was on Sunday - the other metrics update at different times and in different intervals.

 

Your behaviour is a wonderful example for the kind of behaviour that landed us with the JSS in the first place. Unprofessonal and inappropriate freelancers badgering clients about their feedback.


@Petra R wrote:

Discussing private feedback with clients is breathtakingly inappropriate and unprofessional, and the last Update of the JSS was on Sunday - the other metrics update at different times and in different intervals.

 

Your behaviour is a wonderful example for the kind of behaviour that landed us with the JSS in the first place. Unprofessonal and inappropriate freelancers badgering clients about their feedback.


But the client is not upset. He is happy with the result.

 

And I think that I read before that we may ask the clients politely about their feedbacks!

Which part of "private" remains "private" when inappropriate and unprofessional freelancers harass clients about what private feedback they have left?

 

How uncomfortable would it make any client feel being interrogated about something that Upwork assures them will never be shared with a freelancer?


@Petra R wrote:

Which part of "private" remains "private" when inappropriate and unprofessional freelancers harass clients about what private feedback they have left?

 

How uncomfortable would it make any client feel being interrogated about something that Upwork assures them will never be shared with a freelancer?


 You are right about the clients who may don't want to share their private feedback, But what if the client doesn't mind if he share it? What if he shared it with me even if I didn't ask him? 


@Mohamed K wrote:

 What if he shared it with me even if I didn't ask him? 

 That would not have happened.

 

Discussing feedback is always inappropriate. Asking for a certain type of feedback, questioning feedback, asking details of feedback, mentioning private feedback are all signs of a deep lack of integrity and professionalism and no understanding of appropriate behaviour when dealing with clients online.

 

Asking about private feedback is plain disgraceful.

 

In all my years here and about 180 contracts I would never have dreamed of mentioning feedback in any way, shape or form to a client. It is simply wrong. Mentioning PRIVATE feedbck is breathtakingly doubly wrong.

I never asked a client about his private feedback except this client, and I will never ask anyone else. The main reason for asking him is that I just want to know the cause of dropping score.
And I think as long as I asked him politely and he doesn't mind and not badgered, so there is no problem.
Anyway, It is not my habit to ask clients about their feedbacks, I just want to know what is the wrong with my profile.

@ Mohamed -- 

 

Once again: the purpose of the JSS is NOT to provide the freelancer (you) with specific feedback on your skills, in order to allow you to effect improvement in those skills. If that is an unintended consequence of the JSS, then GREAT, so be it.

 

The JSS is, in my opinion, based on some flawed assumptions, but I accept it as a metric because I accept the terms of working through this platform. The JSS is, however, purely an ASSESSMENT, and not what we would call a FORMATIVE metric. Its primary use is to judge quality, not to provide you with feedback or help. That is why it is very wrong of you to drag your client into the JSS score, as you have indicated that you do: "I just want to know the cause of dropping score. And I think as long as I asked him politely and he doesn't mind and not badgered, so there is no problem. Anyway, It is not my habit to ask clients about their feedbacks, I just want to know what is the wrong with my profile." While your intentions may seem to you benign -- even laudable -- these intentions are not consistent with the PURPOSE of private feedback. 

 

Find a different means of divining your clients' opinions and improving your delivery.

Many people with very good scores are giving you advice on how to address yours. The fact that you do not agree does not negate the value of that advice. Take it or leave it and live with the consequences of your choice. 

I didn't say that I don't agree. I appreciate all responds and I know they are very successful people in this platform and I'm still at the beginning, I have benefited greatly from their respond.

 

Now I think that all I can do is trying to win more jobs to improve my profile and compensation the dropping.