Dual Monitor, Time Screenshot and Manual Time

[93bcc985]

Here's the scenario:

I have 2 clients: one from Upwork and one outside Upwork. My contract says I am on an hourly basis and it says that I can have manual time work.
Checking the Desktop app says there that if you a manual work-time you will not be protected with hourly work protection.
I am thinking to have a dual monitor one for Upwork and one for the other client but I am worried about the screenshots.
Do note that my client from Upwork knows that I have a client same time as hers.

Thanks to all the people will answer my question! have a nice day!

[a_lipsey · Accepted solution]

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Anne Carmille B wrote:

Here's the scenario:

I have 2 clients: one from Upwork and one outside Upwork. My contract says I am on an hourly basis and it says that I can have manual time work.
Checking the Desktop app says there that if you a manual work-time you will not be protected with hourly work protection.
I am thinking to have a dual monitor one for Upwork and one for the other client but I am worried about the screenshots.
Do note that my client from Upwork knows that I have a client same time as hers.

Thanks to all the people will answer my question! have a nice day!

---

Are you asking if you can  log  time for the Upwork client while you are working on the non-Upwork client's tasks? No, you can't. That's fraud.  You log hours that you are actually working on each client, and it's physically impossible to do both at the same time. 

You can use manual time, but it will not be protected. So when you are working on the Upwork client's tasks, turn on the time tracker. Then when you switch to the other client, turn it off. Pretty simple.  

Regarding dual monitors: the time tracker will capture whichever one is active or both, but not only one that you preset.  So you can't run the time tracker on one monitor and work on the other client on the other monitor.  Aside from the fraudulent billing piece of this. 

[93bcc985]

Thanks, it makes sense now!

Both clients of mine are flexible. So it is okay for them to work with them simultaneously as long as I finish my work and get things done.

I can use the timer on and off. I think that is the most feasible. My UpWork client starts earlier than the other one. And I don't get any task right away from my other client right after my time-in. So I think the on-off timer is feasible. At least I could focus on my UpWork client first then on the other one. 

Will it make sense?

[petra_r]

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Anne Carmille B wrote:

Both clients of mine are flexible. So it is okay for them to work with them simultaneously as long as I finish my work and get things done.

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Not on hourly contracts. No-. Of COURSE not.

You can't possibly think it is acceptable to be paid twice for the same hour?

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Anne Carmille B wrote:

I can use the timer on and off. I think that is the most feasible. My UpWork client starts earlier than the other one. And I don't get any task right away from my other client right after my time-in. So I think the on-off timer is feasible.

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That doesn't work either. The timer counts 10 minute segments. It does not count minutes. You can't turn it on and off in short bursts, you end up charging clients for 10 minute segments where less was worked, or not getting paid for 10 minute segments where no screenshot was taken. You also end up with time with low activity levels, which is not protected.

Simply work an hour on client 1's work, an hour client 2's work and so on.

[93bcc985]

Yes yes! I understand now. That's what I am thinking. Work as much as I could with client 1 and go for client 2.

[lucioric]

You should bill your Upwork client only the time that you work with him. If you divide the time among the clients, when you are working for the non-Upwork client, turn off the timer, and when returning to work with the Upwork client, turn it on. And don't forget to delete low-activity time bricks that can happen if you go off the project at  a minute ending with 2 or when you return to the Upwork project in a minute ending with 0. Try to switch projects in minutes ending with 0, so you don't work some minutes in the hourly project that will not be invoiced as the time brick should be deleted. 

Ah, and logging manually your Upwork client the time that you worked for the other client is fraud.

[93bcc985]

Hi, thanks for answering, I totally got what you mean. And nope, not gonna do a fraud thing. Thanks again!

[kinector]

Anne, I had the same issue when using the time tracker app. You're not alone! 👍 I haven't used it in years because of the following problem very typical to my work style.

My left hand, my left eye, and my left brain were working on something scientific for one client, and at the same time my right hand, my right eye, and my right brain were working on something totally genius creative patentable stuff for another client. Tracking time between my brains turned out to be impossible, yet, at the end of the day I had produced two distinct results somehow. Two happy clients.

Unfortunately, I couldn't track the time for more than one project at a time. I suppose it's designed for so-called normal people with ordinary capabilities.

Our kinds of talents process things in parallel and on multiple levels.

Part of the work gets done even while we sleep, don't you agree?!? 😉

... which led me to hope for a sleep tracker on this platform! 🤪 Some variation of the Oura Ring, perhaps... 🤣


PS. Whatever you do for non-Upwork is no concern of Upwork, of course. You deal with them as you like. No need to mention. Go for it!

[93bcc985]

Hi Mikko,

Finally! I knew it, I am not alone! 
Yes, I totally get what you mean! I'm just taking caution because this is my first client! And I don't want to mess it up with this tracker app. 

I also understand that they say it is a fraud, just want to be clear how will it become a fraud? When my Upwork client knows that I have an existing client outside Upwork?

Anyway, I'm just happy that I am not alone with this kind of situation. 

[mwiggenhorn]

It would be considered fraudulent to bill the same hour worked to 2 separate clients, whether they are on Upwork or not.  You can't be 2  places at once...

[feed_my_eyes]

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Anne Carmille B wrote:

I also understand that they say it is a fraud, just want to be clear how will it become a fraud? When my Upwork client knows that I have an existing client outside Upwork?

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There's no problem with having more than one client; I typically work for at least two or three different clients each day. Just NOT AT THE EXACT SAME TIME, because that's physically impossible. I mean, what are you proposing to do - will you have one hand on two different keyboards while somehow dividing your brain to think equally hard about two different tasks?

I'll say it one more time since you still don't get it. If the Upwork time clock is running, then you should be working only for that client, because you are being paid for each ten minute segment. How would you feel if you were the client and you checked the work diary and saw screenshots of your freelancer working on somebody else's project - even it was for a few minutes - or saw idle time segments, knowing that you were being charged for this time?

If you don't want to use the time clock, then you should only work on fixed price projects, because then the client will be billed the same amount regardless of how often you switch back and forth to somebody else's project. It just isn't fair to keep the clock running if you're not going to focus on one thing at a time.

[petra_r]

Mikko was being ironic...

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Anne Carmille B wrote:

.... just want to be clear how will it become a fraud? When my Upwork client knows that I have an existing client outside Upwork?

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It would be fraud because you would be paid for the same time by 2 clients.

OF COURSE your client knows that you have other clients outside of the platform. But your client would never dream that a freelancer would be as fraudulent and dishonest to actually work for other clients during the time that they are paying you for. Because that would be disgraceful behaviour. Most clients assume that their freelancers are honest and ethical. Not fraudsters.

If you work in an office, you would not expect your employer to pay you for hours you go and work in the shop across the road, would you? 

Just to clarify: You must not work for anyone or do anything other than work during the time you track for your Upwork client. Does this make sense now?

[kinector]

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Anne Carmille B wrote:

Hi Mikko,

Finally! I knew it, I am not alone! 
Yes, I totally get what you mean! I'm just taking caution because this is my first client! And I don't want to mess it up with this tracker app. 

I also understand that they say it is a fraud, just want to be clear how will it become a fraud? When my Upwork client knows that I have an existing client outside Upwork?

Anyway, I'm just happy that I am not alone with this kind of situation. 

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Yeah, better go by the book with all clients.

You can run your business as you like, of course, and have your clients coming to you from anywhere you can handle. But those whom you make contact with through Upwork must stay within Upwork so all parties get treated fairly (freelancer, client, Upwork). The platform deserves the fee for making that connection happen. At best, this is one of the most efficient ways there is for meeting great clients! 

The platform offers the framework that determines how things should be done and we must comply regardless of our special talents. These online systems are always designed for ordinary folks.  

[93bcc985]

Totally agree on this!

Thanks, Mikko! All the best to you as well! 

[tlbp]

Upwork protection for hourly work is an additional feature, funded by Upwork. So, manual time and not using screen shots is perfectly fine if you and the client agree to it and both trust one another. 

If you want Upwork to pay for any hours that the client refuses to pay for (or cannot pay for), then you must meet all of Upwork's terms for coverage. This would include having the screen shots, memos, etc. 

If you aren't concerned about your client not paying you, then you don't need to worry about the time tracker app.