*Edited* competition

[matthew24857]

I just lost a project to someone in the **Edited for community guidelines** whose willing to work for $5.00/hour.

My bid was $15.00/hour.

I live in the United States.

I'm just stating facts.

[european74]

Matthew, you need to upgrade your skills. 

I started working on Elance 10 years ago. My hourly rate was $5. Now it is $25. I've upgraded my skills to very advanced email coding - hybrid coding. Even biggest companies dont use this yet. Even Mailchimp dont use this yet. But mailchimp is biggest mailing website on the world 🙂
You need to find any niche on the market and upgrade your knowledge. Maybe something related to mobile devices.

[prestonhunter]

If a client can hire somebody from the Philippines or some other country which is "third world" or economically different...

...to do the work that I do, but for less money...

Then the client SHOULD hire that person.

If that means the client can save money? That's great for the client.

But is it REALLY possible for clients to do that?

For some types of work, yes it is.

For most of the work I do... no, it is not possible.

I regularly get hired by clients from "third world countries" because they can't find anybody in their own country to do the work that I do. They have to pay my "first world" rate.

[wescowley]

I got up today, made some coffee and started getting caught up after taking a day off yesterday, and ignored anything I didn't have control over.

Then, I replied to a prospective client who went with someone else, thanking him and letting him know my door was open if he needed anything down the road.

Took a nap, read the forum, and observed for the nth time that some people are more interested in complaining than improving.

Now, back to work.

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I'm just stating facts.

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Samesies.

Best of luck to you. 

[colettelewis]

"Third World" is such an offensive term and so often employed by people who consider that there is only one continent in this world that counts. If you lost out to someone in the Philippines, it could be  because the client preferred the qualififications of the person in the Philippines to yours - not necessarily because their fee was a bit lower, although if the client felt that he or she was getting great value for money, why not? 

[feed_my_eyes]

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Nichola L wrote:

"Third World" is such an offensive term and so often employed by people who consider that there is only one continent in this world that counts. If you lost out to someone in the Philippines, it could be  because the client preferred the qualififications of the person in the Philippines to yours - not necessarily because their fee was a bit lower, although if the client felt that he or she was getting great value for money, why not? 

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Agree. The only relevant fact here is that the client didn't think the quality of your work would be worth $15/hour. It's up to you to convince them otherwise. 

[wlyonsatl]

Matthew C.,

71% of Upwork's total client revenue comes from US clients; 27% of total freelancer revenue comes from US freelancers. India and the Philippines together account for 25% of freelancer revenue. 

Auto workers, steelworkers, shoe manufacturers, etc., etc. - everybody eventually faces low-cost competition. Even Chinese companies now go to Cambodia and Laos to find cheap labor.

Here in the digital world, finding and using the lowest cost provider is easy peasy. But there are differentiators for higher cost freelancers, such as better language skills in the client's language, advanced work skills, work experience, cultural knowledge - you've just got to identify for potential clients why you're worth the money you're asking them to pay you.

Good luck!

[tlbp]

I don't lose projects to freelancers willing to work for $5.

I live in the U.S.

I charge more than $15 an hour. 

[rverang]

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Matthew C wrote:

I just lost a project to someone in the **Edited for community guidelines** whose willing to work for $5.00/hour.

My bid was $15.00/hour.

I live in the United States.

I'm just stating facts.

---

Perhaps the client thought that someone living in the US charging 15/hr is equivalent to a person living in a third world country charging 3/hr.

[tlbp]

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Renante V wrote:

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Matthew C wrote:

I just lost a project to someone in the **Edited for community guidelines** whose willing to work for $5.00/hour.

My bid was $15.00/hour.

I live in the United States.

I'm just stating facts.

---

Perhaps the client thought that someone living in the US charging 15/hr is equivalent to a person living in a third world country charging 3/hr.

---

 I suspect, given the current level of unemployment in the US, that data entry isn't going to pay $15 an hour even if a local US resident is hired by a local US company and works on site. I could be wrong, but I remember entering the workforce as a fresh graduate during a recession. It was not pleasant. 

[matthew24857]

I just applied to a project yesterday (**Edited for Community Guidelines**) literally asking for someone with a "native level understanding of English" that ends with a reminder:

"If you are not fluent or native level English, please do not apply."

This seems like a slam dunk for someone who was born in a country where English is the official language (like the United States of America, where I live).

But I wasn't hired.

Then, I look at the client's recent history to see who was hired for this project:

- someone from the Philippines
- someone from Vietnam
- someone from Kenya

How does someone from an English-speaking country lose a job that requires native knowledge of English to people born in non-English-speaking countries?! This is insanity.

[tarrier-design]

Those kind of people are just looking for the lowest costs... best steer clear of them and go for someone looking for quality and skills first. 

And althought they want 'expert quality' but offer $50... a clear warning sign to steet clear. 

[martina_plaschka]

Matt, you really need to buy a diary. 

[florydev]

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Martina P wrote:

Matt, you really need to buy a diary. 

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Here is my theory...he is working on an article/blog/book/something about horrible Upwork is.  His diary entries are just evidence of his experience. Nobody could keep doing this hoping something will change without changing.

[martina_plaschka]

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Mark F wrote:

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Martina P wrote:

Matt, you really need to buy a diary. 

---

Here is my theory...he is working on an article/blog/book/something about horrible Upwork is.  His diary entries are just evidence of his experience. Nobody could keep doing this hoping something will change without changing.

---

Hmmm good point. Something like Bridget Jones' diary? It could become a million dollar Hollywood movie, even. I picture a mix of rom-com and The IT crowd. 

[wlyonsatl]

Matthew C.,

I am a native English speaker ad have dealt with native English-speaking people all over the world, including South Carolina, Scotland, India, etc. In some cases, I understood only some or nearly none of what they said until I got to know them - and sometimes not even then.

I suspect this particular client was trying to get potential freelancers to self-select and not apply if they had any doubt about their English language skills. But it's also likely this client was looking for low-cost freelancers, which (s)he found.

[petra_r]

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Matthew C wrote:

How does someone from an English-speaking country lose a job that requires native knowledge of English to people born in non-English-speaking countries?! This is insanity.

"If you are not fluent or native level English, please do not apply."

---

The client asked for fluent or native English.

Huge numbers of people outside the US speak English fluently (which is not the same as "native")

[moonraker]

---

Matthew C wrote:

Then, I look at the client's recent history to see who was hired for this project:

- someone from the Philippines
- someone from Vietnam
- someone from Kenya

How does someone from an English-speaking country lose a job that requires native knowledge of English to people born in non-English-speaking countries?! This is insanity.

---

The Phillippines and Kenya are English speaking countries, except English is not the only language they speak. 

[colettelewis]

---

Matthew C wrote:

I just applied to a project yesterday (**Edited for Community Guidelines**) literally asking for someone with a "native level understanding of English" that ends with a reminder:

"If you are not fluent or native level English, please do not apply."

This seems like a slam dunk for someone who was born in a country where English is the official language (like the United States of America, where I live).

But I wasn't hired.

Then, I look at the client's recent history to see who was hired for this project:

- someone from the Philippines
- someone from Vietnam
- someone from Kenya

How does someone from an English-speaking country lose a job that requires native knowledge of English to people born in non-English-speaking countries?! This is insanity.

_________________________________

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If this is your attitude when applying for jobs or toward your clients, then I am really not surprised why your JSS is so low. Just because you are native speaker born in USA, does not make your candidacy or your proficiency a foregone conclusion.  

[kochubei_valeria]

Matthew,

I'm sorry to hear you're not seeing the value you expect in the jobs you see and send proposals to on Upwork. Keep in mind that 33% of jobs on Upwork are posted privately–clients fill these by searching for the key skills they need and invite freelancers who fit the bill to submit a proposal. Make sure your profile speaks well for your abilities so you don’t miss out on those opportunities. Other Community members have shared some great tips on what improvements could be made to the profile to better stand out to potential clients. 

I'd also like to not that at Upwork, the terms of any contract, including the rate, are for clients and freelancers to decide upon together. Any freelancer who is not satisfied with the rate offered can negotiate a higher rate or find a project they consider to be more suitable.

Note: I've merged two threads about the same topic here. A gentle reminder to refrain from posting consistently negative content (for example, “laundry lists” or “rants”) without recommending or suggesting a potential solution as it is against the Community Guidelines.

Thanks!

[feed_my_eyes]

As an American, you have the option of applying for jobs in the US-only marketplace. So, if you don't want any pesky foreign competition, why not stick to that?

I also wonder why someone who has a background in software development would bother with low-paying data entry jobs?

[tlbp]

One cannot assume a freelancer's nationality or knowledge based on their location. Digital nomadism is a thing, after all.

[florydev]

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Valeria K wrote:

Matthew,

I'm sorry to hear you're not seeing the value you expect in the jobs you see and send proposals to on Upwork. Keep in mind that 33% of jobs on Upwork are posted privately–clients fill these by searching for the key skills they need and invite freelancers who fit the bill to submit a proposal. Make sure your profile speaks well for your abilities so you don’t miss out on those opportunities. Other Community members have shared some great tips on what improvements could be made to the profile to better stand out to potential clients. 

I'd also like to not that at Upwork, the terms of any contract, including the rate, are for clients and freelancers to decide upon together. Any freelancer who is not satisfied with the rate offered can negotiate a higher rate or find a project they consider to be more suitable.

Note: I've merged two threads about the same topic here. A gentle reminder to refrain from posting consistently negative content (for example, “laundry lists” or “rants”) without recommending or suggesting a potential solution as it is against the Community Guidelines.

Thanks!

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Valeria, I don't think you are going to have any more luck getting through to him than us.