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1f1ba5e5
Community Member

**Edited**

Hi all!

 

Has anyone done business with **Edited for Community Guidelines**?

I was chatting with someone called **Edited for Community Guidelines** and did a job for them.

That was back in August.

I finished the job on 21st August and was suposed to get paid 30 USD in the beginning of September.

I sent them a message here but noone responded.

A friend of mine who also did a job for them hasn't been paid and they told her they will PayPal the money by today, which of course hasn't happened.

 

Could it be a fraud?

 

Thanks,

Christos.

ACCEPTED SOLUTION
paywell
Community Member

I believe it is too often that people go outside of Upwork and demonstrate a lack of knowledge for the basic rules. 
Because of this, the most frequently posting forum users have become blunt in their responses. 

Recently, there has been a forum post about a client offering and not paying $30 USD for buying something on Amazon. Have you encountered the same client by any chance? 

If so, I would recommend reading those two forum posts, with information on how to avoid such situations in the future:

 

Upwork Community Blog has you covered with this great article from early on this year:

From-the-Trust-and-Safety-Team-How-to-Spot-a-Scam 


And, if you haven't read Wes C's assortment of scam types and flavors, have a go at it:

Top-Red-Flags-for-Scams-From-Community-Member-Wes-C 

View solution in original post

32 REPLIES 32
prestonhunter
Community Member

re: "Could it be a fraud?"

 

At this point, it doesn't really matter if it is a fraud or not.

 

The important thing is that you're doing this all wrong.

 

You need to learn what you did wrong, so that you don't make the same mistakes again in the future.

 

When I do a job, I get paid automatically.

You did not get paid.

 

What are the things that I do which are different than what you did, which mean that I get paid and you don't?

Are you serious? Do you consider your response appropriate? "I am getting paid and you are not" isn't a comment. **Edited for Community Guidelines**

If you can't offer a suggestion or a proposal, there is no point in replying. **Edited for Community Guidelines**

grendon
Community Member

He didn't mean anything bad by that, it's just the way he express himself. He'll grow on you. ๐Ÿ˜„

The thing is, that there are procedures before you start working on a job. 

Before you start working, you need to have a contract with the client. Only then you can start working. 

All payments are through Upwork, if someone tells you that they'll pay you outside the platform, then yes, you've been scammed. 

If it is a fixed price job, then after you finish and deliver the job, the client has sometime to release the paymet or request changes on the work. If they do nothing, you'll get paid in a matter of 14 days, I think, no need to ask them or anything. 

 

Now if you didn't have a contract and you started working, then there's nothing anybody can do, because you didn't follow proper procedures. 

Take a look at the link: https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211062568


Christos Z wrote:

Are you serious?


We could ask you the same question. You're on a freelance site and you appear to have started work without a contract. That's a basic ingredient in the recipe; working without a contract is like trying to make tomato sauce without tomatoes. You also violated a lot of the rules for using this platform.

From your profile, it appears that you have an excellent education (including a law degree--that's impressive).  Forgive me for saying so, but it surprises me that someone with your level of education wouldn't do some basic research before starting. There's a link to the terms of service below (it's in the legal section). That will tell you what freelancers and clients can and can't do on the platform. It's a good idea to read that before you continue.

It's also a good idea to research the different contract types available here (fixed-price and hourly).  I will leave you to do a Google search on your own to find them.

Finally, one of the other freelancers has written a good article about identifying scams.
https://community.upwork.com/t5/Community-Blog/Top-Red-Flags-for-Scams-From-Community-Member-Wes-C/b...


Patronising much?

No, I am honestly surprised. I'm also surprised by the number of people who post here with the same issue.

And it's an honest question: Why wouldn't people do some research first to find out how the platform works? It's sad that scammers take advantage of people who are just starting and don't know the rules, but I'm not sure why people don't check out how things work.

What would have helped you avoid starting out the way you did?

It's important to read at least the start of Wes's article because he explains a lot of things people assume about Upwork that aren't true. For instance, clients aren't vetted, so you have to check them out carefully.  You're lucky that all you lost was $30 worth of time.

It is surprising that with a law degree you didn't bother to read the Terms of Service or follow Upwork's rules. One would think you would be aware of legal stuff.

 

Renata was trying to be helpful. Everyone who responded was giving you their best, honest perspective. No matter your intelligence, education, or profession - not everyone is cut out for freelancing.

 

You have to read between the lines. I believe Preston did not want to tell you that you are at high risk of getting suspended for a number of ToS violation you unwittingly - or wittingly, who knows - committed. 

Not getting paid in this instance is the least of your worries. Your whole future upwork career is at stake, lots of people have been suspended for this, and being suspended means that you can never create another upwork account again. 

 

Oh dear!

Getting suspended or kicked out of Upwork for a mistake?

I'm trembling and shocked!!!

(enter sarcasm)

I have quite a few sources of income to be threatened by a little commuting such as this. Give me a break!

No reason to tremble. Your profile is still there, so it looks like you were not suspended (yet)j, so you should be appreciative of upwork moderators who seemingly gave you a pass. 

Edit; didn't give a pass.

 

 

ericaandrews
Community Member

If you are accepting jobs where people are saying they will be paying via PayPall (outside of Upwork), you truly have no idea how this platform works or the rules of conducting business on this platform.  The first thing you need to do is STOP bidding or interviewing for anything until you take the time to learn and understand how you are and are not suppose to use the platform.

andregutierrez22
Moderator
Moderator

Hi all,

 

A few posts and replies to them have been removed from this thread as they were in violation of our Community Guidelines and values. Please, be mindful of the Community Guidelines and respectful toward other users when posting.

 

~Andrea
Upwork

That's odd, my post was also deleted. 

 

Here's an outline of what I wrote:

  • I have explained to Christos, that some users have to answer the same questions over and over again and are therefore blunt. 
  • I have then asked whether the unpaid job came with a task to buy something on Amazon, because a similar thread was already opened by a different user. 
  • Finally, I have provided two links to a forum and a blog posts on scams and how to flag them.

 

Christos liked my post, so it couldn't have been disrespectful towards him.

Others being blunt is not a sign of disrespect, just a fact, it happens in workplaces and on forums outside of Upwork. 

Linking to articles about scams and spams, posted by approved community members and Upwork staff couldn't be against any guidelines, I presume. 

 

Was my post deleted by mistake?

1f1ba5e5
Community Member

That's odd, my post was also deleted. 

 

Here's an outline of what I wrote:

  • I have explained to Christos, that some users have to answer the same questions over and over again and are therefore blunt. 
  • - I did not ask anyone in particular for an answer (especially those rude and arrogant members) so they weren't firced to reply. They can go about their business ignoring my thread. Unless they are validated by being bullies.

 

  • I have then asked whether the unpaid job came with a task to buy something on Amazon, because a similar thread was already opened by a different user. 
    - No that was not the case with me.

 

  • Finally, I have provided two links to a forum and a blog posts on scams and how to flag them.

 

Christos liked my post, so it couldn't have been disrespectful towards him.

Others being blunt is not a sign of disrespect, just a fact, it happens in workplaces and on forums outside of Upwork. 
- When it happened to me while working for the London 2012 Olympic Games I took it to HR. If it happens in other forums I gave every right to react.

Linking to articles about scams and spams, posted by approved community members and Upwork staff couldn't be against any guidelines, I presume. 


Pavlo L wrote:

 

 

Was my post deleted by mistake?


Maybe it wasn't blunt enough?

Ok so obnoxious and rude posts belittling a fellow member are allowed while replies are deleted?

Ok so I made a mistake and did one ONE job which didn't pay.

No need to insult my intelligence or ability to read terms and conditions.

You people are infuriating to say the least.

You can go ahead and delet my post if you like.

Just know that community forums don't work like this. They are respectful, understanding and enlightening.

Unless there's nothing else important going on in your life and you resort to bullying other members to validate yourself.

Too bad.

 

P.S. Maybe a "moderator" can look up other forum sites and come up with new rules to eliminate direct or indirect attacks on members.

I'm out.

Good luck with your little projects.

 

 

That "one mistake" is a severe violation of the Terms of Service. It is not a joke; it is the requirement of the platform. When someone violates the rules, what do you expect? Telling someone the truth is not bullying. While it may come across as harsh, look what happens when people break the rules. None of us wants to see freelancers lose money.

In all sincerity, what would have made you follow the rules?


Andrea G wrote:

Hi all,

 

A few posts and replies to them have been removed from this thread as they were in violation of our Community Guidelines and values. Please, be mindful of the Community Guidelines and respectful toward other users when posting.

 


Well, my post has been deleted too.
I don't get it, really.
Maybe the thread should be deleted entirely?
I'm seeing answers that are "worse" than mine, with sarcasm and slights (hint, they are not fromthose who respond).
What I told OP was just the truth. What Pavlo told him was marked by OP as a solution.
That said, I don't understand anything.

I have no idea how Upwork decides what is and is not allowed in the forum. I had one post removed and several "edited for community guidelines" when I could not find a single violation. I believe individual moderators have ideas about what should and should not happen here. There are rules, but when I have asked the moderators directly why they removed content, I get the ever-present copy-pasted response.

Wonderful Moderator: Now can you please "moderate" the fact that this freelancer attempted to receive payments OUTSIDE of the Upwork platform?   People are on here simply breaking the rules and you guys are more worried about what people SAY on the Upwork Platform than what they are DOING on the platform.  You are on this thread and SEE that somebody attempted to get paid "off site" through PayPal, so what are your plans in terms of enforcing the ToS????  You 'edited' me and left the person brokering 'deals' outside of the platform untouched.  Do you care to explain?

spectralua
Community Member

Preston's fault again? ๐Ÿ˜„

Yep, often beginners are offended by him because of the style of presentation of thought. Although we should be grateful. The person spent time, delved into the problem, pointed out errors, shared expensive experience.., and it's all for free!

Christos, don't take it personally. Like that someone is going to offend. Everyone writes differently. Ignore posts you don't like. 

paywell
Community Member

I believe it is too often that people go outside of Upwork and demonstrate a lack of knowledge for the basic rules. 
Because of this, the most frequently posting forum users have become blunt in their responses. 

Recently, there has been a forum post about a client offering and not paying $30 USD for buying something on Amazon. Have you encountered the same client by any chance? 

If so, I would recommend reading those two forum posts, with information on how to avoid such situations in the future:

 

Upwork Community Blog has you covered with this great article from early on this year:

From-the-Trust-and-Safety-Team-How-to-Spot-a-Scam 


And, if you haven't read Wes C's assortment of scam types and flavors, have a go at it:

Top-Red-Flags-for-Scams-From-Community-Member-Wes-C 

paywell
Community Member

Yay, the solution is back! 

See? I wasn't breaking any rules.

Thank you, Upwork Team!

ericaandrews
Community Member

The FIRST step to getting a legitimate contract on Upwork is being able to SPELL the job you are looking for correctly.   What is a "Representrative"???

 

**edited for Community Guidelines**

No spell check?  Seriously, this is why Upwork should be REVIEWING and VETTING new freelancer profiles before they can go "live" and be seen in searches by client.  Stuff like THIS is a 'bad look' for every other freelancer.

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

 
 
 
 
 

 

 
 

 

I have maintained that the open door policy for anything that can make a "profile" is disastrous for clients, freelancers, and the health of the platform. Upwork seems determined to drive the platform into the ground. Unlimited, unqualified scammer freelancers aren't worth the tiny amount they might generate before infuriating clients who leave the platform never to return.

I don't know if Upwork likes inflating the number of freelancers (the same as with fake jobs) or if they believe they will actually earn money. Or, perhaps there is some big thinker at the top who has some Master Plan that will reveal all of these bad business practices are really genius and we will all have excellent, well-paying clients who are friendly, appreciative, and generous with bonuses for legitimate freelancers.

I have to agree.  If somebody can't even SPELL the job they are looking for, they should not be on here looking for a job.  Clients - old and new - come on to this platform expecting to find QUALITY.  These profiles should not be going UP before being vetted and proofread by Upwork staff first to make sure that those profiles, and the FREELANCERS are good FITS for this platform.  You can't just publish 'junk' into the search engines for clients and expect them not to notice.  These types of profiles created "in a rush" with typos and other problems are BAIT for scammers looking for 'new' freelancers desperate for a FIRST job.   Every 'new' freelancer should be required to PASS a 'situatuational' test of questions regarding the correct way to HANDLE real-world scenarios that occur here on Upwork - not that silly "readininess test" but a REAL WORLD test with questions like "A client wants to continue the interview process in WhatsApp, how do you respond?"  And, if a freelancer can't make a 90% on their test, they get BLOCKED from the site before they can even post a profile for 'bidding' or job 'invites'.  The profiles of new freelancers should be VETTED before they can be SEEN publicly.   This is supposed to be a PROFESSIONAL SERVICES platform and it is NOT a 'good look' when people come on here treating it as a 'casual dating site' or make everybody else look bad by not being able to spell their own job title in the headline of their profile. 

 

 

Simply put, because Upwork is ALLOWING freelancers like this to BREAK THE RULES and remain 'active', it is inviting SCAMMERS who KNOW to look for just these types of people.  Improve the QUALITY of the freelancers you allow on the platform and make sure they are KNOWLEDGEABLE about how to avoid scams BEFORE they can even POST a profile, and most of the scammers will disappear because there will be no folks SUSPECTIBLE to scams due to not bothering to have read and understand the rules. 

That would be ideal in a perfect world, but upwork does neither have the time of money to verify millions of freelancers who will never win any job. That is why they verify them only after they won their first job. 

But a meaningful entrance exam would be great, as a requirement to publish a profile. I have absolutely no idea why this is not implemented, and why the opposite has happened with abolishing even the readiness test because it was so difficult. ("caused too much friction" for newbies.)

Upwork can stop letting anyone and everyone on the platform. That won't be a financial burden. I'm sure Support is busy with freelancers demanding their money back, and that costs money.

 

There were limits in categories in the past with not only an Upwork rules test but skills tests as well. Almost all platforms have mandatory skill tests. The cost to reinstate these policies would be negligible. "Too much friction" to take a brief and simple test? I guess that's why they can't be bothered with using spell check when setting up their profile.

Upwork tried limiting numbers, but now with the new connects system, it is not lucrative. If just one connect were to be bought per day by approximately a quarter of the freelancers registered on the site, the amount generated would be substantial. 

 

Skills tests were discontinued on Upwork, because the answers were so readily available on the internet, that everyone was getting top marks in just about every category. 

There are ways to limit cheating, such as timed responses, so there is literally not enough time to look up answers. Yes, Upwork needs to let go of its short-sighted need for cash and look at the big picture. Unlimited, unskilled freelancers are driving the platform into the ground.

Even if it was a fixed set of questions, simply randomizing their order would keep 99% of people from successfully cheating. 

I'd really, really like to know how much of their earnings is from selling connects. People game the system for the free connects, get free connects they don't even have to cheat for, I personally have not bought connects in many years. So from my personal standpoint, I always assume that number to be very low. 

But I might be wrong. Lots of people get the paid membership because "they heard somewhere" that they have a better chance of winning jobs. 

Maybe I just should stop wondering why upwork does this, at the risk of bringing the platform down with too many clueless newbies providing clients with horrible customer experiences. Their cost/benefit analysis must weigh in favor of just approving everyone, though they must be aware that the detrimental effect is losing clients, not winning more. 

812dd08c
Moderator
Moderator

Hi Christos and Dear Members,

 

We truly appreciate you reaching out and reporting this here. I'm sorry to hear about this disappointing experience you had with a client. I have checked the job you're referring to and it looks like there's no contract that's been established. Please note that any request for free work is not allowed on Upwork, and it is a violation of Upwork's Terms of Service. Also, a real client will never ask you to give them money to start working, cash a check for them, work for free, or provide your personal information. 

 

I have escalated this to the appropriate team for further review. Rest assured that the team will review both parties' accounts and will take action accordingly if necessary. Please feel free to check this help article and this thread for more information on how to stay safe on Upwork. 

 

~ Arjay
Upwork
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